ExiledInIllinois Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Oh....I'm sure glad you explained all that.So he's not a terrible player.....just a joke & a fraud. Not saying he is terrible so.....he deserves a thread devoted to tell everyone how not terrible, but not probowl talented he is.....all without putting it simply like that. Please explain how you can create a thread complaining greatly about a player & call him a joke & a fraud & not be saying he is terrible. What you wrote above doesn't explain it at all. Since when did it become a crime to get into the probowl & not be a great player at that position anyway? Esp. if it's one of our guys? Why create a hate thread for the guy just because he didn't win the game for us this week? You guys make me sick sometimes. 878220[/snapback] Fair enough... Not trying to get people riled... Just reading what he wrote. For a ProBowl player... He does seem to dissapear or his talent is negated at critical times. Again, that "joke and fraud" comment could pertain to him posing as an ABOVE average player?... Right?... Not many terrible players make it in this league. Hate thread or not... Just sticking up for people's right to speak out and be displeased with his effort in what was a big game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Well Dibs, "terrible" and "joke & fraud" seem to go hand in hand to me. Maybe folks like you and I just don't get this point because we adhere to such concepts as logic. 878222[/snapback] And the big word here is SEEM. He can be a "good" player that poses as a "great" player... Then when you really need him the most, what appears to be a "great" player, becomes a "joke and a fraud" because the player is then exposed as just a "good" player. Basically all you have is a "good" player... And I don't equate "good" players as ProBowl material. Where does the word terrible come in here? I would still rather have that "good" player around than a "terrible" player. Why is everybody so defensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Again, that "joke and fraud" comment could pertain to him posing as an ABOVE average player?... Right?... 878223[/snapback] Um..... There should be no question in regards to whether he is an ABOVE average player or not. There should be no question in regards to whether he is a GOOD player or not. There should be no question in regards to whether he is a VERY GOOD player or not. There should only be a question in regards to whether he is a GREAT player or not. Anyone who thinks he is anywhere near below AVERAGE either has some sort of perverse man-hate for him or simply has no idea what the average level of play is for a DE in todays league. Why is everybody so defensive? 878224[/snapback] Re-read the title of the thread & the first post. Is there any justification for either after this weeks game? In a way you are right.....I could have just ignored this thread(thus not getting defensive) but........I made the choice to defend AS against a ridiculous attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Um.....There should be no question in regards to whether he is an ABOVE average player or not. There should be no question in regards to whether he is a GOOD player or not. There should be no question in regards to whether he is a VERY GOOD player or not. There should only be a question in regards to whether he is a GREAT player or not. Anyone who thinks he is anywhere near below AVERAGE either has some sort of perverse man-hate for him or simply has no idea what the average level of play is for a DE in todays league. Re-read the title of the thread & the first post. Is there any justification for either after this weeks game? In a way you are right.....I could have just ignored this thread(thus not getting defensive) but........I made the choice to defend AS against a ridiculous attack. 878226[/snapback] It was an attack. I just took his post as venting because AS is a ProBowl player and in his mind didn't play well yesterday... No biggy. Eventually, the Bills will need him to eventually step up in clutch situations... Not saying ALL clutch situations... Right? That is what makes a player "above average" in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogger Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 We needed the Jets game, that was a big game, without that one we couldn't have lost this one with meaning. Schobel was great in that game, even the almighty Bruce had games where he made no impact at all. the entire defense did not make plays Sunday, not only Schobel, but Mcgee and our LBs. a RE couldn't change the outcome of the game, we couldn't stop the run, and any pass rusher that left containment resulted in Young being able to roll or run, When young rolledi it forces the DBs and LBs to look back resulting in their man getting open. So defending young was a team effort not changable by one single player. the best way to defend him would have been a 3-4, stoping the inside run with a big body(we don't have) and having the speed to contain on the outside (we have, but we don't run) But it starts in the middle. in our current 4-3 I think it showed the importance of getting a NT that can hold up two guys and still fight to the ball, Kyle Williams is a great back up, and on passing downs will serve well. Tim Anderson should not be back next year, he is holding a very improtant roster spot that belongs to anyone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Um.....There should be no question in regards to whether he is an ABOVE average player or not. There should be no question in regards to whether he is a GOOD player or not. There should be no question in regards to whether he is a VERY GOOD player or not. There should only be a question in regards to whether he is a GREAT player or not. Anyone who thinks he is anywhere near below AVERAGE either has some sort of perverse man-hate for him or simply has no idea what the average level of play is for a DE in todays league. Re-read the title of the thread & the first post. Is there any justification for either after this weeks game? In a way you are right.....I could have just ignored this thread(thus not getting defensive) but........I made the choice to defend AS against a ridiculous attack. 878226[/snapback] Thank you very much. Schobel is quite deserving of his place on the probowl roster, and this talk of his play in the "clutch" holds as much weight as the "high motor" nonsense, which is zero. AS is a VERY solid talent at a spot which is very hard to fill. It is very hard for me to understand why people who watch the Bills fail to recognize this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOOOOOO Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 On the other hand, I think Jauron has done a credible job, and JP will be a serviceable QB. I also hope that he learns to show more composure and poise when he breaks containment from the pocket. He seems to trip over himself whenever he leaves the pocket and indecisive on whether to run or pass, in contrast to V-Young who seems so composed and comfortable in or outside of the pocket. I can only imagine what they are thinking in Houston for allowing this guy and Reggie Bush to go to other teams 878103[/snapback] Please there's a big difference when JP leaves the pocket and when Vince does... JP leaves it when he is forced out of the pocket, getting hit... Vince leaves it after his first read.... Theres a huge difference.... Look at when we did get pressure on Vince he would panic....Schobel play and Denney play both near the goalline....the rest of the day he had all day to throw.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Thank you very much. Schobel is quite deserving of his place on the probowl roster, and this talk of his play in the "clutch" holds as much weight as the "high motor" nonsense, which is zero. AS is a VERY solid talent at a spot which is very hard to fill. It is very hard for me to understand why people who watch the Bills fail to recognize this. 878240[/snapback] Hey Bill, how you doing/feeling? Hope you are having a nice Holiday's... With regards to this argument, would you buy that I am being 's advocate just to get a debate started?... Actually, frogger's post above is what I was looking for from the pro-AS side of the aisle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 I am sure Mom and Dad are proud of you 878102[/snapback] They were when they were alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Hey Bill, how you doing/feeling? Hope you are having a nice Holiday's... With regards to this argument, would you buy that I am being 's advocate just to get a debate started?... Actually, frogger's post above is what I was looking for from the pro-AS side of the aisle... 878246[/snapback] Hello E.I.I. My post was not at all aimed at you. Not at all, OK? For a long time, Schobel has been dissed on this board which is fine, but I simply don't in any way agree. Look around the league. If there were THAT many guys who could rush the QB, 13 1/2 sacks wouldn't lead the conference. DEs who can bring it are rare these days. AS is doing just that. When he was very young, he seemed to be strictly a speed rusher (which by the way is the polar opposite of "high motor"). Today, he combines this blazing speed with good spin moves, athleticism and experience. If AS was an unrestricted free agent, he would be signing a 40 or 50 million dollar contract. He has helped keep us in games all season, and is smack in the middle of his prime. Having AS on the right side has given more opportunity for Kelsay and Denney to produce, and they too have stepped up. I really DON'T get the criticism, other than the fact that Bruce Smith was a better DE, and a case could easily be made that Bruce is one of the top 2 to ever play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Hello E.I.I. My post was not at all aimed at you. Not at all, OK? For a long time, Schobel has been dissed on this board which is fine, but I simply don't in any way agree. Look around the league. If there were THAT many guys who could rush the QB, 13 1/2 sacks wouldn't lead the conference. DEs who can bring it are rare these days. AS is doing just that. When he was very young, he seemed to be strictly a speed rusher (which by the way is the polar opposite of "high motor"). Today, he combines this blazing speed with good spin moves, athleticism and experience. If AS was an unrestricted free agent, he would be signing a 40 or 50 million dollar contract. He has helped keep us in games all season, and is smack in the middle of his prime. Having AS on the right side has given more opportunity for Kelsay and Denney to produce, and they too have stepped up. I really DON'T get the criticism, other than the fact that Bruce Smith was a better DE, and a case could easily be made that Bruce is one of the top 2 to ever play the game. 878251[/snapback] I know... Good post Bill! Just trying to get what Hammond is saying without over reacting... It is great that people (you included... Football you do get... ... ONLY KIDDDING! ) are backing this debate up with facts, not emotion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 I know... Good post Bill! Just trying to get what Hammond is saying without over reacting... It is great that people (you included... Football you do get... ... ONLY KIDDDING! ) are backing this debate up with facts, not emotion! 878254[/snapback] OK....I admit it.....I got a bit emotional. It's just that I(& others) had the same argument with Hammond a week ago in this thread where I even linked to my original research from a previous argument showing how AS does not get garbage time sacks nor piles them up in a few games against sub-standard opposition in comparison to his pro bowl peers. It gets to me when not only people have irrational hatred for players(particularly our better players) but when shown that their opinion is simply not backed up by statistical analysis they just ignore it....wait a week....& spread their bile again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauderswr80 Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Schobel was voted in by several coaches and players of the NFL, obviously hes not overrated within the NFL businees.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Pro Bowl or not, Schobel's play against the run at the point of attack continues to be average at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Pro Bowl or not, Schobel's play against the run at the point of attack continues to be average at best. 878320[/snapback] Maybe so.....but his ability to rush the passer has not only been well above average but also consistent year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Maybe so.....but his ability to rush the passer has not only been well above average but also consistent year after year. 878323[/snapback] Yes he is a good pass rusher, but there is more to playing DE than just teeing off on each and every play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Pro Bowl or not, Schobel's play against the run at the point of attack continues to be average at best. 878320[/snapback] Well there you have it. Now let's end this debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike formerly from Florida Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 I guess some things will never change. Rather than have a simple discussion of the issues it is the usual corny insult or the "How many posts have you had line". To which I just chuckle and count that as another tired mind with a tired argument. I have already spent enough time on another thread talking in depth about Schobel being vastly overrated, just like Phil Hansen before him. That's another guy that should build an altar to Bruce Smith, because as soon as Bruce was gone his inadequacies were exposed. Am i saying Schobel is a terrible player? No, far be it from that. But highly overrated and undeserving of the Pro Bowl? You betcha. 878171[/snapback] Phil Hansen was overrated? Exposed after Bruce left? You are an aszclown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 I have already spent enough time on another thread talking in depth about Schobel being vastly overrated, just like Phil Hansen before him. That's another guy that should build an altar to Bruce Smith, because as soon as Bruce was gone his inadequacies were exposed. 878171[/snapback] Hansen overrated? Um, by who? "If not for the fact that he played at a division II school, Phil Hansen would have been a first round draft pick," proclaimed Bills General Manager Bill Polian. Oh? Polian may know a thing or too... He was named to the all-Rookie team, not a bad thing to accomplish, notably when Bruce was injured that year... As soon as Bruce was gone his inadequacies were exposed...did you even watch Phil Hansen play? So Bruce left after 1999 and Hansen retired in 2001... Did you follow the Bills 2000 and 2001? I guess not, that's why this thread is here. The guy was solid, not stellar. Quote that. His career numbers would support that. Now, what were you saying about AS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Angel Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I guess some things will never change. Rather than have a simple discussion of the issues it is the usual corny insult or the "How many posts have you had line". To which I just chuckle and count that as another tired mind with a tired argument. I have already spent enough time on another thread talking in depth about Schobel being vastly overrated, just like Phil Hansen before him. That's another guy that should build an altar to Bruce Smith, because as soon as Bruce was gone his inadequacies were exposed. Am i saying Schobel is a terrible player? No, far be it from that. But highly overrated and undeserving of the Pro Bowl? You betcha. 878171[/snapback] I agree he may not be a completely dominent player but he is 3rd in the NFL in sacks 2nd in the AFC and 2nd amoung DE, ahead of Jason Taylor, So saying that he is not undeserving of a probowl is as stupid as writing a post that bashes a very good player. Schobel isnt getting alot of help either, our DT's or more 3rd down alternates than everydown players, Kelsay and Denney are improving but both our streaky. I dont know if youve noticed this but when one team has a very good player such as aaron schobel, the other team will gameplan for him and many times they are taken out of a game by the LT getting chip blocks from a RB or a TE or even a double team, this takes away attention from other defensive players, unfortunatley, like I said before we dont have a player on our defensive front other than schobel that can take advantage of this. If you watched the game on Sunday you also may have noticed that Vince Young is kinda fast, pretty moblie, and rediculously good for a rookie, I think alot of players around the league may have a hard time sacking him. Everyones entitled to there own opinion i suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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