Q: 'Buried' in debt, can he dig out?

[Tux of Borg]

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Q: 'Buried' in debt, can he dig out?

By Mindy Fetterman, USA TODAY

 

Remember when you were sent to the principal's office in high school and were threatened: "This will go on your permanent record"?

 

Remember your relief when you realized that a school day's discipline report didn't really follow you all through life? Well, Todd Townsend has learned that there is, in fact, a permanent record. It's called a credit score. And his isn't very good.

 

Two years after graduating with a degree in theater from St. Lawrence University in Canton, N.Y., Townsend, 25, finds himself loaded with student debt and working at a job that doesn't pay enough to make the payments.

 

He earns $10.50 an hour as a concierge for a lodge in the Lake Placid, N.Y., area. His student debt totals $47,000.

 

After graduating from St. Lawrence in 2004, Townsend headed West to attend the Art Institute of Colorado in Denver. There, he racked up more debt.

 

Then he decided to follow his dream to be an actor and moved to New York City to find work. He lasted 4½ months.

 

"I lived like an animal," he says of his big-city life, spent eating ramen noodles and absorbing job rejections.

 

Like thousands of young people, he retreated to safety: Mom's house. In fact, 19% of the twentysomethings polled recently by USA TODAY said they had moved back with their parents.

 

"It was a good financial decision" to move back home, Townsend says.

 

Still, he's the first to recognize that "girls don't think it's sexy."

 

Now, Townsend's dreams of entering the theater world are being deferred.

 

"I graduated from a great school with honors, and I'm not using the degree at all," he says. "Schools don't prepare you for the real world."

 

Townsend remembers his first day as a freshman when, "You got a meal card, your class schedule and a credit card application," he says. "I was 18 years old. I didn't know it was wrong."

 

Every one of his college friends, Townsend says, got a credit card and ran up debt to the limits. He did, too.

 

Townsend also signed promissory notes for college loans without really understanding the terms. Now, he's stuck with a variable loan at 14.25% interest.

 

"I kept accruing loans and interest on the loans, and I found myself buried," he says.

 

At the moment, Townsend's happy to be earning a steady paycheck, and he's paying a minimum amount of rent and utilities to his mother.

 

It's not free?

 

"She loves me," he says. "But not that much."

[tennesseeboy]

Not surprised. I have a daughter going to law school next year and I'm footing the bill. Many have asked me why I am doing that given that I worked my way through college and law school. Well...it was different then. The tuition and living costs can be (and are) crippling to many. She'll do fine when she finishes and then will be on her own, but without $130,000 or more in debt. Me? I'd probably piss it away on Bills memorabilia anyway.

[Fezmid]

Not surprised.  I have a daughter going to law school next year and I'm footing the bill.  Many have asked me why I am doing that given that I worked my way through college and law school.  Well...it was different then.  The tuition and living costs can be (and are) crippling to many.  She'll do fine when she finishes and then will be on her own, but without $130,000 or more in debt.  Me?  I'd probably piss it away on Bills memorabilia anyway.

870886[/snapback]

I don't buy the "it was different then" argument. I just graduated in '99 and I worked my own way through school. Had a job (or two... or three...) to pay the bills, and I managed to graduate with only about $8,000 in debt (from a Big-10 school). Part of that was taking a year off of school to work fulltime (for $8/hour) to help pay for school. I honestly believe that it helps build character. It also forces the student to make decisions on what they want to do. If they're paying for it, they're much more likely to graduate on time instead of being 5th or 6th year seniors. They also have to decide how to spend their money. This guy obviously didn't do a very good job with it, but that's on him. How do you not know what a credit card does? He knew, he just chose to ignore the consequences, and he's paying for that choice now.

 

You read articles like this one all the time, and the person always says, "I didn't realize what being in debt would do!" That's a load of .

 

(I don't begrudge you paying for your daugther's college - I think it's a very nice gift for her - but I don't buy that it's the only solution nowadays).

CW

[Chef Jim]

Not surprised.  I have a daughter going to law school next year and I'm footing the bill.  Many have asked me why I am doing that given that I worked my way through college and law school.  Well...it was different then.  The tuition and living costs can be (and are) crippling to many.  She'll do fine when she finishes and then will be on her own, but without $130,000 or more in debt.  Me?  I'd probably piss it away on Bills memorabilia anyway.

870886[/snapback]

 

My question is how has your own plan has suffered to make sure your princess isn't saddled with debt out of college? Most lawyers come out of college with huge student loans, so what, they're a lawyer making good money. I think one of the best lessons is to teach her how to manage money not how to depend on daddy. You're doing the same thing to your daughter that happened to the kid in the above article.

[Fezmid]

My question is how has your own plan has suffered to make sure your princess isn't saddled with debt out of college?  Most lawyers come out of college with huge student loans, so what, they're a lawyer making good money.  I think one of the best lessons is to teach her how to manage money not how to depend on daddy.  You're doing the same thing to your daughter that happened to the kid in the above article.

870912[/snapback]

Wow, I'm usually in the minority on these types of topics. Thanks

[tennesseeboy]

My question is how has your own plan has suffered to make sure your princess isn't saddled with debt out of college?  Most lawyers come out of college with huge student loans, so what, they're a lawyer making good money.  I think one of the best lessons is to teach her how to manage money not how to depend on daddy.  You're doing the same thing to your daughter that happened to the kid in the above article.

870912[/snapback]

good point. The kid works two jobs and waitressed through undergrad. Paid her own living expenses and rent. Tuition at UB when I went was a little under $4000 per year. Law school tuition at most places in this day and age is closer to $20,000. I teach at a law school and most of the students are not looking for the best job (long-term or what they want to do.) but for the job that gives them the shekels to pay for student debt. I worked midnights as a cop for three years and went to school after a shift. Character building, but hell..so was Vietnam. I wouldn't want my kids to have to do either.

[BuffaloBud]

There is a couple of items in this that I have issues with:

 

1)

"I graduated from a great school with honors, and I'm not using the degree at all," he says. "Schools don't prepare you for the real world."

 

What world are you/I/everyone else living in if it isn't the "real world"? Hello? McFly? It is your responsiblity to prepare yourself appropriately.

 

2)

Townsend remembers his first day as a freshman when, "You got a meal card, your class schedule and a credit card application," he says. "I was 18 years old. I didn't know it was wrong."

Every one of his college friends, Townsend says, got a credit card and ran up debt to the limits. He did, too.

 

And do you want us to wipe your butt when you take a dump as well? Wake up!!

 

It is comments / stories like this that just frost my a$$. To me, this is just the parents fault as the kids. Not that my parents were perfect, but we did not buy things when we couldn't pay for them. And when we did, we paid cash - not credit.

 

[ajzepp]

I think parents can be well-intentioned, wanting to give their kids the best life possible growing up, but also have it backfire to a degree. I count myself among those who grew up in a relatively well-to-do upper middle class family. While not 'rich', I did not want for much growing up. I think my dad always made sure we had plenty because he felt guilty for moving us from state to state every few years, so obviously I know his heart was in the right place. The problem is that I grew up academically lazy. It wasn't until I was around 24 years old until I finally decided to get my act together.

 

I started taking a few classes at the local community college, and then used that to get accepted at a larger university (Temple U). I got a full time job working corporate security at night, figured out what that would cover in terms of tuition bills and living expenses, and then took out college loans for the difference. I lived on my own in Philly, I took care of everything on my own w/out parental assistance, and graduated at a very high level in 1999. I don't mention the 'high level' part to brag, I mention it because I don't think I would have done that unless I'd taken complete and total ownership of the entire experience. So in that sense I completely agree with Fez....I dedicated myself to somethign for three years, worked hard for it, and saw the results. As difficult and lonely as that period of my life was, it's arguably the most important period of my life.

 

I can also see the alternative, though, and I think this depends on the parents REALLY knowing the tendencies of their child. If you have a kid who you KNOW will thrive academically and do their absolute best even though they don't share in the financial responsibility, then I think it's a great gift. Otherwise, I think a lot of parents are just giving their children an excuse to blow off four years of their lives with partying and debt-building exercises.

 

If this kid in the article was THIS far off in his planning that he's expecting a $10/hr job to offset $50k in school loans plus living expenses, chances are you can point back to his teenage years where he just didn't have anyone to help him see the light. He was probably a lazy bastard like I was and took a lot of things for granted. Now he's got himself into a real bind, cause there's not much you can do to rid yoruself of school loans.

[Lv-Bills]

This dumbass also has a degree in theatre. THEATRE? Get a real degree in a field that can net you a real job, and he wouldn't have these problems.

 

This dude basically wants to play all of his life. Well, my advice is go back to school, and turn that degree into something that is actually useable in the real world. Then, he'll notice, that yes, school does prepare you for real life. When he gets a real job, full time, he can take acting classes on the side.

 

What a moron. Sorry, but I hate stupidity. I have no sympathy.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Hey all you "Christians" what does it say in the Bible about debt and such? More specifically the "7 year thing"? Biblically, is it (debt) supposed to be lifelong or does it get wiped out after some time?

 

I think Old Test.?

 

[Fezmid]

Otherwise, I think a lot of parents are just giving their children an excuse to blow off four years of their lives with partying and debt-building exercises.

I also don't believe that every kid should go to college. A lot of colleges are nothing more than glorified high schools. Let's face it - not everyone is smart enough or has the desire to go to college, especially not right out of high school. Don't force them, it's a waste of money.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I also don't believe that every kid should go to college.  A lot of colleges are nothing more than glorified high schools.  Let's face it - not everyone is smart enough or has the desire to go to college, especially not right out of high school.  Don't force them, it's a waste of money.

871010[/snapback]

 

Yep! Totally agree.

 

The emphasis switch (around the 1970's) to academics and the demise of trade skills and schools is disturbing...

 

Was it all part of the "master plan", a way to break the hold on a industrial workforce and switch to service orientated jobs? Only kidding!

[Chef Jim]

I also don't believe that every kid should go to college.  A lot of colleges are nothing more than glorified high schools.  Let's face it - not everyone is smart enough or has the desire to go to college, especially not right out of high school.  Don't force them, it's a waste of money.

871010[/snapback]

 

I'll take a hard working kid with street smarts and a desire to make money over some over-educated bookworm any day.

[KD in CA]

Two years after graduating with a degree in theater from St. Lawrence University in Canton, N.Y., Townsend, 25, finds himself loaded with student debt and working at a job that doesn't pay enough to make the payments.

 

"I graduated from a great school with honors, and I'm not using the degree at all," he says. "Schools don't prepare you for the real world."

 

 

Wow, that's a tough one to figure out. I can't believe that a degree in 'theater' didn't prepare him for the real world.

[MattyT]

Wow, that's a tough one to figure out.  I can't believe that a degree in 'theater' didn't prepare him for the real world. 

871102[/snapback]

Maybe it will help him "act" like an adult.

[apuszczalowski]

This dumbass also has a degree in theatre.  THEATRE?  Get a real degree in a field that can net you a real job, and he wouldn't have these problems. 

 

This dude basically wants to play all of his life.  Well, my advice is go back to school, and turn that degree into something that is actually useable in the real world.  Then, he'll notice, that yes, school does prepare you for real life.  When he gets a real job, full time, he can take acting classes on the side.

 

What a moron.  Sorry, but I hate stupidity.  I have no sympathy.

870988[/snapback]

Thank you, I was about to post the same thing

 

Maybe if kids looked at the real world first and seen what is available they would make smarter decissions. Unless you have a ton of talent in acting and theatre, wasting a ton of money in school on it is only going to put you farther in debt, and if you have the talent, you don't really need the schooling

 

Kids these days are going to college and spending tons of money and racking up tons of debt for degrees that will get them nothing in the real world. They also go in wanting to do something and change their mind way too often.

[MattyT]

They also go in wanting to do something and change their mind way too often.

871139[/snapback]

I agree with your post, but wanted to make a general point relating to the item I quoted.

 

The standard chain of events is flawed to think that a high schooler can make a decision about their careers and get it right the first (or second, or third) time. I entered my major because I enjoyed a particular technology class in HS. It was a logical decision at the time, but being in school gave me exposure to students in other interesting majors. Classes I took also led me to want to do other things and I grew intellectually. In the end, I had two degrees, a meaningless certification, and fortunately steady employment. But, even now (8 years later), if I had it all to do over again, there are many other careers that I would like to try. Some that require advanced degrees and some that require little more than interest, ability, and a solid apprenticeship/work experience.

[The Poojer]

come on thats not fair. if it was his dream to be an actor, then bravo for following his dream...don't begrudge his chosen way of life...acting is a decent profession...now if he thought he was going to graduate to George Clooney status then begrudge him for that...he said he "lived like an animal for 6 months" it think...wow, heck of a sacrifice...a whole 6 months????? just don't ever judge someone on their chosen career path...that makes you sound elitist....

 

I think i replied to the wrong post, but point be taken all the same!

 

Thank you, I was about to post the same thing

 

Maybe if kids looked at the real world first and seen what is available they would make smarter decissions. Unless you have a ton of talent in acting and theatre, wasting a ton of money in school on it is only going to put you farther in debt, and if you have the talent, you don't really need the schooling

 

Kids these days are going to college and spending tons of money and racking up tons of debt for degrees that will get them nothing in the real world. They also go in wanting to do something and change their mind way too often.

871139[/snapback]

Edited December 18, 2006 by POOJER

[Arkady Renko]

I think it's admirable when people work their way through college, but I don't see why parents who want to help out their children should be attacked for doing so. It's their business how they decide to spend their money and paying for a kid's college education is not determinative of the financial skills the child will have, anecdotes provided or not.

 

I can understand that people begrudge the help that others got because of who their parents were, but parents are going to help out their children and vice versa and I am not sure why someone would attack that. That's the way it is and nothing really has changed in that regard.

[Arkady Renko]

I will note that in the professional school sense, most base all their aid on the both parents and the child's salaries and assets.