LabattBlue Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Oh, so they're going to move the team because 73,000 people show up this Sunday instead of 75,000 people? The Bills are not going anywhere for decades unless Ralph sells them to someone who wants to move the team, which isn't going to happen. 868286[/snapback] It can't be stated any better than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Brady Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 YAWN!!!!!! NEXT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 I live in Orange County now and I'm very excited at the Bills' move here. I will have at least 2 season tickets. Can't Wait!!! Thanks Buffalo-area fans. I can finally go to every home game now. If the Tennessee game doesn't sell out (which Ill be at while visiting family) you can kiss this team goodbye. If we can't sell out because the Sabres are so hot then we don't deserve to have 2 professional sports teams. 868211[/snapback] You Left Coast people can really be wacky sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 There are only two reasons to move: 1) Ralph wants more money 2) Whoever buys the team from Ralph wants more money I'm in southern California, but would be heartbroken if the Bills left Buffalo. I'm disappointed 75,000 locals aren't going to the game, because I think the Bills have the best fans, and our sellout streak is currently at zero (which is way behind Green Bay if my facts are right). But whether 72,000 or 75,000 show up doesn't have any impact at all on whether the Bills can survive in Buffalo. They can, and they will until an owner gets greedy for one reason or another. I can't see Ralph doing it, but I really hope he sells the team to a very wealthy local interest invested in the community. 868304[/snapback] People also forget the advertising money lost from the game not being on local TV from Niagara falls to rochester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJPearl2 Posted December 16, 2006 Author Share Posted December 16, 2006 My point, for most of you, wasn't made. I would hate to see them move. But why can't we sell out a friggin Miami game - especially when this team is playing so well. And as for sell-outs in the 90s? This is a completely different league now. It is all about revenue and with LA waiting for a team, the league is waiting for some team to drop in attendance or become vulnerable so they can be moved. Buffalo needs the following to keep the team: 1) New owner with big bucks 2) New stadium downtown - state of the art (because the rest of the league will be upgrading) 3) Larger season ticket base 4) Most Importantly - a good product. I know we are "building" in the righ diretion, but we have been doing so for 4 years - and quite frankly, people are sick of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Rd Joe Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 I live in Orange County now and I'm very excited at the Bills' move here. I will have at least 2 season tickets. Can't Wait!!! Thanks Buffalo-area fans. I can finally go to every home game now. If the Tennessee game doesn't sell out (which Ill be at while visiting family) you can kiss this team goodbye. If we can't sell out because the Sabres are so hot then we don't deserve to have 2 professional sports teams. 868211[/snapback] LA..never. That city has failed to support two franchises. IF (and I stress IF) Tom Golisano can't broker a deal post Ralph, I would be more concerned with a market of 6million people just 90 minutes from Buffalo that already has an existing fan base - TORONTO. Keep your sunday ticket because that's the only way you'll ever see the Bills in LA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loadofmularkey Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 My point, for most of you, wasn't made. And as for sell-outs in the 90s? This is a completely different league now. It is all about revenue and with LA waiting for a team, the league is waiting for some team to drop in attendance or become vulnerable so they can be moved. 868430[/snapback] No, your point was made. The Bills can't sell out the last four games of the season, so they're gone. We got ya. Take a look at this... And be sure to click on each individual boxscore for the home dates. Some of those attendance numbers are PATHETIC...Especially this one! This was not that long ago. You're telling me the league has changed so much since 1998? It wasn't about revenue back then? Back in the glory days of 1998 when revenue didn't matter? When the Bills were in the middle of an actual, honest to God, PLAYOFF run and they still couldn't sell out? I know it looks bad and it's probably embarrasing to some people, but a non sellout against Miami does not mean the franchise is bolting to LA. As I said before, call me crazy but I believe that whether it's Golisano, Wegman or Rich (or all three) someone will keep this team here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalomike Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 We didnt sell out all that many games in the 90's either. Fan support has been excellent lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whites Bay Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 LA..never. That city has failed to support two franchises. IF (and I stress IF) Tom Golisano can't broker a deal post Ralph, I would be more concerned with a market of 6million people just 90 minutes from Buffalo that already has an existing fan base - TORONTO. Keep your sunday ticket because that's the only way you'll ever see the Bills in LA. 868442[/snapback] I figured there had to be some sarcasm in the original post. Always better to use it as a scalpel, and not a chainsaw. Couple of points, for what they're worth. Someone had stated on an earlier thread that Golisano is making some decent money now with the Sabres. Well, let's hope so, because if he's making bucks with the NHL, he's going to be awash in it with an NFL franchise. Let's hope he gets the bug. A downtown stadium in Buffalo? As a Rochester-born native...NO! The Bills have worked their collective tush off to expand the fan base beyond Buffalo, so take advantage of it and build the stadium to the East. Believe me, people outside Buffalo don't want to pound their way into downtown - and back out again. Finally, it likely wouldn't be Los Angeles, for the above stated reasons. Just an awful fan base that would itself have a hard time selling out a 70,000 seat stadium. But San Antonio? Toronto? Not too far-fetched. Go, Golisano, Go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el Tigre Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Oh, so they're going to move the team because 73,000 people show up this Sunday instead of 75,000 people? The Bills are not going anywhere for decades unless Ralph sells them to someone who wants to move the team, which isn't going to happen. 868286[/snapback] I hope you are right,but there seems to be a lack of concern from you locals that the team could move.Why do you think RW is complaining so much about the new CBA?Because it puts the small market teams at an even bigger financial disadvantage that's why.He's a good owner and doesn't want to move,but he's concerned about the future of pro football in WNY.And he won't be around forever. A small market in an economically depressed area that can't consistently sell out. That's not a real secure franchise,and that's why Buffalo's name keeps coming up in these moving discussions. Fill up the stadium for every game and you can make sure pro football will always be in WNY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 I'm disappointed 75,000 locals aren't going to the game868304[/snapback] This just in: 75,000 locals never went to the game, even during the height of the SB run. The in-stadium attendance since the late-1980's has always had a large contingent of out-of-towners (Ontario--10%, Ra Cha Cha--10%, Southern Tier--5%, etc.). IMO, its these folks who've decided for whatever reason to not make the trip to OP that's driving the non-sellouts. These "swing" sales will likely return with a better team and a more weather-favorable schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 It is obvious what the real reason that the Bills did not sell out the Miami game. 1811 people spent their extra sports money on Sabres tickets. 412 people decided they couldn't afford Bills tickets because they had spent their paychecks like they always do and right now they have to buy Xmas presents. 677 people blame Tom Donohoe for getting their hopes up. Read: Losers. 119 people are sick and tired of losing and just gave up hoping to watch it on TV. 932 people, remarkably, living in Western New York, are afraid of the December 16th cold. All told, those are the 3900+ people who were going to buy tickets and should have but didn't. Blame them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJPearl2 Posted December 16, 2006 Author Share Posted December 16, 2006 No, your point was made. The Bills can't sell out the last four games of the season, so they're gone. We got ya. Take a look at this... And be sure to click on each individual boxscore for the home dates. Some of those attendance numbers are PATHETIC...Especially this one! This was not that long ago. You're telling me the league has changed so much since 1998? It wasn't about revenue back then? Back in the glory days of 1998 when revenue didn't matter? When the Bills were in the middle of an actual, honest to God, PLAYOFF run and they still couldn't sell out? I know it looks bad and it's probably embarrasing to some people, but a non sellout against Miami does not mean the franchise is bolting to LA. As I said before, call me crazy but I believe that whether it's Golisano, Wegman or Rich (or all three) someone will keep this team here. 868457[/snapback] Yes, the league has changed tremedously since 1998. Look at the TV contracts, looks at NFL product sales, look at owner revenues. Look at the amount of salary cap difference, TV coverage, etc. Look just at the TV contract amounts- how much NBC and ESPN paid for Sunday and Monday Night football this year - of which Buffalo was NEVER on-wonder why? In the 90s a lot of teams didn't have sell outs. Now, however, EVERY team sells out. Except us, of course. And the new labor agreement completely screws us. The big owners don't want to share revenues with teams, like the Bills, that don't put a competitive team on the field, don't draw big TV numbers and can't even sell out games. And now, the big markets are going to build billion-dollar stadiums to increase their revenues (see Dallas's proposal - even smaller markets like Arizona with their new stadium - sold out every game) and push out all smaller market teams like Buffalo and Jacksonville. I want them to stay. But the current state of affairs scares the crap out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whites Bay Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 This just in: 75,000 locals never went to the game, even during the height of the SB run. The in-stadium attendance since the late-1980's has always had a large contingent of out-of-towners (Ontario--10%, Ra Cha Cha--10%, Southern Tier--5%, etc.). IMO, its these folks who've decided for whatever reason to not make the trip to OP that's driving the non-sellouts. These "swing" sales will likely return with a better team and a more weather-favorable schedule. 868470[/snapback] Bingo. You nailed it. Put us at a 9-7 (or even 8-8) finish this year, and slip one of your December games into October next year, and none of us are having this conversation. Guaran-damn-tee it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Yes, the league has changed tremedously since 1998. Look at the TV contracts, looks at NFL product sales, look at owner revenues. Look at the amount of salary cap difference, TV coverage, etc. Look just at the TV contract amounts- how much NBC and ESPN paid for Sunday and Monday Night football this year - of which Buffalo was NEVER on-wonder why? In the 90s a lot of teams didn't have sell outs. Now, however, EVERY team sells out. Except us, of course. And the new labor agreement completely screws us. The big owners don't want to share revenues with teams, like the Bills, that don't put a competitive team on the field, don't draw big TV numbers and can't even sell out games. And now, the big markets are going to build billion-dollar stadiums to increase their revenues (see Dallas's proposal - even smaller markets like Arizona with their new stadium - sold out every game) and push out all smaller market teams like Buffalo and Jacksonville. I want them to stay. But the current state of affairs scares the crap out of me. 868489[/snapback] Wrong. The NFL owners want money for THEMSELVES not the league. They don't necessarily want to force small market teams out of the league at all. In fact, they want them right where they are, whining that they can't compete. The NFL has changed since the 90s because it is far and away the best run league in the world, and that is because of its monetary and competitive balance. The NBA and baseball and especially hockey have all gone downhill at times in that time period (either monetarily or perception-wise or both) while the NFL keeps going up. A lot of that has to do with stadiums. AZ would not sell out any game except the Cowboys (because of Cowboy fans) if they didn't have that new stadium. Goodell came right out this week and said we don't need a team in LA and there might not be one at all. There have been two decades since the league was in LA and it's doing far, far better than ever. I live in LA and there is zero call or excitement for a team here and I mean zero. Ralph is concerned, rightfully, that he won't make as many millions in profit as other owners if they continue to take money for themselves. But he can easily compete monetarily, and he usually does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Guaran-damn-tee it. 868490[/snapback] If ya smelllllllll... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loadofmularkey Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Goodell came right out this week and said we don't need a team in LA and there might not be one at all. There have been two decades since the league was in LA and it's doing far, far better than ever. I live in LA and there is zero call or excitement for a team here and I mean zero. 868491[/snapback] Hm, I guess CJ'll have to get a refund on those season tix he's already ordered. Shouldn't be a problem. Excellent post by the way, the true voice of reason. THANK YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJPearl2 Posted December 16, 2006 Author Share Posted December 16, 2006 Wrong. The NFL owners want money for THEMSELVES not the league. They don't necessarily want to force small market teams out of the league at all. In fact, they want them right where they are, whining that they can't compete. The NFL has changed since the 90s because it is far and away the best run league in the world, and that is because of its monetary and competitive balance. The NBA and baseball and especially hockey have all gone downhill at times in that time period (either monetarily or perception-wise or both) while the NFL keeps going up. A lot of that has to do with stadiums. AZ would not sell out any game except the Cowboys (because of Cowboy fans) if they didn't have that new stadium. Goodell came right out this week and said we don't need a team in LA and there might not be one at all. There have been two decades since the league was in LA and it's doing far, far better than ever. I live in LA and there is zero call or excitement for a team here and I mean zero. Ralph is concerned, rightfully, that he won't make as many millions in profit as other owners if they continue to take money for themselves. But he can easily compete monetarily, and he usually does. 868491[/snapback] Agree to disagree. But don't think the 4 - and it will be 4 after next week - non-sell outs aren't opening people's eyes in the league office. That is a team that sold on only 1/2 its games. That is the issue!! The Bills sold only HALF their games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loadofmularkey Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Agree to disagree. But don't think the 4 - and it will be 4 after next week - non-sell outs aren't opening people's eyes in the league office. That is a team that sold on only 1/2 its games. That is the issue!! The Bills sold only HALF their games. 868497[/snapback] Well, it appears no one is getting through to you. I'm glad you have all these resources in the league office that allow you to make bold statements like "people's eyes are being opened" and "this team is gone if they don't sell out the Tennessee game". I know you bought a ticket for someone in your family to use, but if you're so damn worried about this whole thing, why don't you buy up an entire seasons worth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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