apuszczalowski Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Maybe the rivalry dying down has to do with both of those teams sucking for the past decade? The rivalry was huge during the Kelly/Marino Days because they were both always fighting for the division title and both teams were competitive. Its been a while since either has competed and NE has taken over which is why the NE rivalry has started up, especially when Bledsoe was here. For me, Pittsburgh and Clevland, and Cinncy hold no significance to me because theres no recent history between those teams. Geographically they might be closer then Buffalo/Miami, but theres not much recent history between them and moving divisions might not help that. Its not like we change division and allof the sudden a Buffalo/Clevland game is going to get us on MNF. A rivalry needs to be established through meaningful games against each other. Right now I would Tenessee as a bigger rival then Cinncy and Clevland only because The Tittans had homerun throwback knock us out of the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 I know about the AAFC Joey, though I am not convinced that connection outweighs the AFL connection. That is a matter of opinion. The bigger problem with the Gazette version of the "move divisions" argument, apart from the outside of the practical questions raised by Ned Flanders in the other thread, is that it is based on a short-term assessment of the Bills' attendance problems. I am as disappointed as anyone about the lack of sell-outs, but the problem lies less in the opponent than in the fans' fatigue with the uneven play of the team. This has been beaten to death in other threads, but if the Bills show competitive form, tickets will sell in advance no matter who they play. Outsourcing Bills ticket sales to Cleveland and Pittsburgh would only be a band-aid. The real problem is getting Buffalo fans to buy tickets, not to go looking for other team's fans to buy them so that the rest of us can watch them on TV. As for the Gazette in general, I should probably avoid discussing them further, since the decline of that paper and of the Falls is so depressing. The Reporter at least believes in having writers produce articles that require coherent thought. You sound like The writers from the Niagara Falls Reporter when you criticize the Gazette. Sure I know the paper's lame (we call it the Weekly Reader) but that doesn't mean their case to get us out of the AFC Least isn't valid. Does anyone outside of Buffalo (and yes that includes Miami) think this is one of the great rivalries in sports? Usually when I see a Miami Bills game in Miami on the tube you can see the oceans and oceans of empty seats at Pro Player. Given what has happened this week with Buffalo unable to sell out against a supposed heated "rival" in a game with playoff implications should tell you this thing is as dead as the dodo. Time to put it out of its misery and shout to the powers that be to put us in the North with the rest of the lunch bucket teams. I'm sorry but seeing the Steelers Black and Gold and the Brownies classic orange and white does a lot more for me than watching Miami mince around in Aqua in 80 degree temps. Browns and Steelers are much more REAL football than Miami could ever hope to be. A think Buffalo fans, given an option, would much rather be a part of that. As for history uh yeah next time do a little research. The original Browns were in the old AAFC back in the forties with......you guessed it the Bills. When the Browns moved to the NFL after the demise of the AAFC they took a lot of the old Bills players with them. Additionally Rochester used to be considered much more of a Brown's town than a Bills town. 867634[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Balls Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 I know about the AAFC Joey, though I am not convinced that connection outweighs the AFL connection. That is a matter of opinion. The bigger problem with the Gazette version of the "move divisions" argument, apart from the outside of the practical questions raised by Ned Flanders in the other thread, is that it is based on a short-term assessment of the Bills' attendance problems. I am as disappointed as anyone about the lack of sell-outs, but the problem lies less in the opponent than in the fans' fatigue with the uneven play of the team. This has been beaten to death in other threads, but if the Bills show competitive form, tickets will sell in advance no matter who they play. Outsourcing Bills ticket sales to Cleveland and Pittsburgh would only be a band-aid. The real problem is getting Buffalo fans to buy tickets, not to go looking for other team's fans to buy them so that the rest of us can watch them on TV. As for the Gazette in general, I should probably avoid discussing them further, since the decline of that paper and of the Falls is so depressing. The Reporter at least believes in having writers produce articles that require coherent thought. 867651[/snapback] Does anybody remember the AFL for that matter? I might have been stretching it with the obscure AAFC reference but I doubt many fans 30 or younger would even know what the hell the AFL was and what it was all about so I think you can throw that aspect out the window. If you take the "uneven play of the team" aspect that still doesn't explain how the Bills were able to sell out nearly every game in the wretched Donahoe era. I think opponents do matter when it comes to a team like the Bills. You don't think the Bills would sell out with just their own fans going to a Steeler...or Browns game. Whenever the Steelers are in town and I try to get tickets I'm usually shut out. Managed to go in '04 and thought the atmosphere was electric. We need more of that. I'm sorry but the Pats and Fins don't cut it. I'll have to let Staba know about your compliment in regard to the Reporter. I'm the Senior wing analyst in his Bills stuff columns. I work in the Falls and I know it is bad but hey...they just opened their first Starbucks downtown! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Nobody "travels" as well as Stiller fans, but the Pats fans are pretty darn close now that they can't get tix in their own house. If anything, the tickets remaining for this game signal the Fishies' decline as a national draw, since their no-playoffs streak is almost as long as ours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 I guess what we are seeing is the delayed effect of the TD years.... all those dashed hopes had to catch up with us sometime. I understand the point about history, but I guess I think there are some things that you should hold onto, precisely because once you give in to the general ignorance of the population there is no where to stop. I also still think that the practical argument is short-sighted. As Apus has been saying, if the Bills are seriously in the hunt for playoffs with teams like the Pats and Dolphins, the electricity will return. By all means, pass my praise along to Staba. I have written him recently as well. If you are the senior wing analyst, does that make you the "Tim" who always talks of Keanu Reaves? A Starbucks in the Falls? Oh my, I need to get back to visit mom more often.... Does anybody remember the AFL for that matter? I might have been stretching it with the obscure AAFC reference but I doubt many fans 30 or younger would even know what the hell the AFL was and what it was all about so I think you can throw that aspect out the window.If you take the "uneven play of the team" aspect that still doesn't explain how the Bills were able to sell out nearly every game in the wretched Donahoe era. I think opponents do matter when it comes to a team like the Bills. You don't think the Bills would sell out with just their own fans going to a Steeler...or Browns game. Whenever the Steelers are in town and I try to get tickets I'm usually shut out. Managed to go in '04 and thought the atmosphere was electric. We need more of that. I'm sorry but the Pats and Fins don't cut it. I'll have to let Staba know about your compliment in regard to the Reporter. I'm the Senior wing analyst in his Bills stuff columns. I work in the Falls and I know it is bad but hey...they just opened their first Starbucks downtown! 867672[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Balls Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 I guess what we are seeing is the delayed effect of the TD years.... all those dashed hopes had to catch up with us sometime. I understand the point about history, but I guess I think there are some things that you should hold onto, precisely because once you give in to the general ignorance of the population there is no where to stop. I also still think that the practical argument is short-sighted. As Apus has been saying, if the Bills are seriously in the hunt for playoffs with teams like the Pats and Dolphins, the electricity will return. By all means, pass my praise along to Staba. I have written him recently as well. If you are the senior wing analyst, does that make you the "Tim" who always talks of Keanu Reaves? A Starbucks in the Falls? Oh my, I need to get back to visit mom more often.... 867694[/snapback] Go Johnny Utah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Well hell then, boy... Welcome back onto the bandwagon! Go Johnny Utah! 867717[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheZone78 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Just searched for tickets on the website and got section 307.........it didn't sell out..................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buford T. Justice Posted December 15, 2006 Author Share Posted December 15, 2006 Booooooo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Sad, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 I don't want to be in the AFC North, even if it were still possible to do so. The proximity of Cleveland, Pitt, and Cincy would work against us...in the fact that many more Bills fans will be squeezed out of tickets for both the away games AND our own home games...since those other cities have noticeably larger populations. I also think the contrasts between our division rival cities are what make the rivalries more fun. I don't have the same hate for the other Rust Belt, blue collar kind of cities as I do for the more "elitist" NYC, Boston, and especially Miami (do two cities get any more different than Buffalo and Miami?). Watch the Bills get better on the field with some consistency, and watch the renewed division rivalries and sell-outs follow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 I don't want to be in the AFC North, even if it were still possible to do so. The proximity of Cleveland, Pitt, and Cincy would work against us...in the fact that many more Bills fans will be squeezed out of tickets for both the away games AND our own home games...since those other cities have noticeably larger populations. I also think the contrasts between our division rival cities are what make the rivalries more fun. I don't have the same hate for the other Rust Belt, blue collar kind of cities as I do for the more "elitist" NYC, Boston, and especially Miami (do two cities get any more different than Buffalo and Miami?). Watch the Bills get better on the field with some consistency, and watch the renewed division rivalries and sell-outs follow... 868004[/snapback] Enough of the woe is Buffalo crap. The populations of those three cities is not that much more than Buffalo. Also add Rochester to the mix and there are more people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Enough of the woe is Buffalo crap. The populations of those three cities is not that much more than Buffalo. Also add Rochester to the mix and there are more people. 868009[/snapback] And the support from Toronto and Neighboring area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 And the support from Toronto and Neighboring area. 868068[/snapback] If you want to include Toronto in Buffalo's demographics, then you'd better include Columbus in both Cleveland's and Cincinnati's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 If you want to include Toronto in Buffalo's demographics, then you'd better include Columbus in both Cleveland's and Cincinnati's... 868080[/snapback] I agree, but you don't have to if you're comparing the populations of the three cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 I agree, but you don't have to if you're comparing the populations of the three cities. 868156[/snapback] Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Cincy are all Top 30 radio markets - IIRC, Cincy's the smallest of the three, with somewhere around 1,700,000 12+ population - while Buffalo/NF recently dropped to #54, under a million. That's always been my frame of reference... Yeah, adding Rochacha would level it out, but then we get into drawing equidistant radii around the other cities mentioned, too. Not wanting to turn this into a numbers thread (since there's already an overpopulation of those over on PPP ), I'll just stick to calling Buffalo a small market, while respecting others' right to disagree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Is that anywhere near the Hamlet of Ebenezer???? 865322[/snapback] Hey, I lived there for 24 years now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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