JP haters

[MadBuffaloDisease]

The draft was what it was and Marv's history is what it is.

The draft was...held in April and is over. And Marv never drafted the players before; Polian and Butler did. I'll bet Marv doesn't select a DB on the 1st day next year.

As for Leinart, certainly you are not saying that I wanted to draft him! I would not have selected him under any circumstances.

Not necessarily. Just saying that no rookie QB would be able to help the Bills immediately.

[Ramius]

The reason that the Colts didn't win a superbowl was because after this, they drafted too many defensive backs and missed in general with their defensive draft picks.

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Ummm, no, drafting DB's has nothing to do with the colts failure to get to a SB. The colts had their offense in place and set to work in building a defense. They have been drafting DB's because they needed them and their defensive secondary was sh--.

 

But i suppose if the bears dont win the SB this season, you'll say it was because they drafted a safety with their first pick last april.

[Dawgg]

First pick at #40 overall is a far cry from a first pick at #8 overall...

 

But i suppose if the bears dont win the SB this season, you'll say it was because they drafted a safety with their first pick last april. 

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[Ramius]

First pick at #40 overall is a far cry from a first pick at #8 overall...

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my comment had nothing to do with the Bills, so i dont know where this is coming from? Its simple actually, when your team needs a secondary, you can draft one early on with a high chance of success.

 

The colts have done so, the eagles in the past as well. The bears too. Their 1st 2 picks last year were safety manning, and CB hester.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Definitely, and that's why the Texans have been "rebuilding" since they came into the league.  Wait, what?  So I guess five years of drafting high wasn't enough.

 

Hopefully they have lots of really informed fans like you who know enough to hope for them to lose so they can finally get some wins come 2037.

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Losing will save their franchise.

[Dawgg]

I thought you were eluding to the criticism the Bills have taken for spending a top 10 pick on a safety.

 

With that said, I'm all for first round DBs as they have been very good to us over the years. Very servicable, cheap starting-caliber NFL players that have been able to contribute early.

 

Odomes, Jones, Burris, Smith, Winfield, Clements

 

The one commonality that these picks share, however, is that they were all between 20 and 30, if I'm not mistaken. That is PHENOMENAL value... Donahoe illustrated this perfectly when he moved down from the #14 overall pick in exchange for #21 and #51. He then traded that 2nd rounder and picked up and additional fourth.

 

All in all, he turned the #14 overall pick into: Nate Clements, Travis Henry and Brandon Spoon. Granted Spoon turned out to be a bust, Travis and Nate were bigtime hits. In that draft, the Bills had a 5 picks in the top 200 -- no wonder it was TD's best draft.

 

Since then, this team has done more trading away of picks than accumulating them... which in m opinion goes a long way in explaining why we regressed.

 

my comment had nothing to do with the Bills, so i dont know where this is coming from? Its simple actually, when your team needs a secondary, you can draft one early on with a high chance of success.

 

The colts have done so, the eagles in the past as well. The bears too. Their 1st 2 picks last year were safety manning, and CB hester.

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[RuntheDamnBall]

If Marv can break his proven losing trend and stop drafting defensive backs with our early picks, the Bills actually have a shot at being a strong football team. Sadly, I do not expect this madness to end.

If he drafts another first round db, odds are that we will continue to lose football games. 

Imo it is just that simple.

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Here's where I disagree with you Bill. How can you call anything Levy's done a "losing trend"? They picked DBs in his years as coach because they kept losing those players (to injury or otherwise) while they were able to retain the winning core in a pre-free agency era. And his years as HC were the best the Bills have ever seen. As GM, he has had one year and one year is never enough to indicate a trend.

 

And if you're willing to cite Marv in the personnel choices during his HC tenure, what about Jauron's influence, then, as well? Surely he had some say in choosing players like Urlacher, Ian Scott, Alex Brown, Lance Briggs, Todd Johnson, Charles Tillman, Rosevelt Colvin -- a lot of solid guys, and not just CBs. In five Jauron era drafts, 6 first day O-and D-lineman were chosen. In the only year they didn't take one they landed Urlacher.

[ganesh]

You are not wrong(generally) with that observation.  Logically though, when you think about it, it should be the other way around.  A #1 pick will usually be closer to an NFL caliber QB than a late 1st rounder.....therefore you'd expect the late 1st rounder to take longer to develop than the #1.....therefore the late 1st rounder should be given more time to develop than the #1.  The fact that it happens the other way around does not change the logic that it shouldn't.

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One counter argument to this....The player picked in the top 5 means his team as such sucks and will require a couple of drafts to get the right players and hence needs more time. A player picked in the 20+ of the 1st round USUALLY goes to a team that has some talent (has been in the playoffs or the cusp of playoffs) and hence can plug in and fit into the team and have success quicker.

 

Of course these arguments get thrown out the door, if a playoff team moves into the top 5 and gets the QB and a non-playoff team moves down or gives up some extra lower draft picks to get back in the 1st round to pick the QB in the 20s.

 

Bottom line is a QB is likely to succeed depending on his supporting cast....NFL is the ultimate team game.

[Bill from NYC]

Ummm, no, drafting DB's has nothing to do with the colts failure to get to a SB. The colts had their offense in place and set to work in building a defense. They have been drafting DB's because they needed them and their defensive secondary was sh--.

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And why my friend was their secondary "sh--?" Check this out, and start after 1998. Please, look at the amount of early DBs, and other defenders that were drafted on day 1. Last time I looked, their defense still sucks. They could have drafted DBs with later picks and had guys who sucked, no?

 

I make the case that football is won and lost in the trenches, and continuously using your best resources on little guys is a stupid thing to do. I hold out the Bills a shining example of this. After the superbowl years, when and why do you think that the Bills started losing?

We would draft corners in round 1 and let them walk as ufas. Not only is this a waste of first round talent, the starting lineup becomes a merry go-round of rookie dbs. Do you think this is a good thing? C'mon Bro! Other teams were signing LBs, OTs, DTs, etc. and keeping them.

 

My biggest hope for the Bills right now is for them to lock up Nate. If they do so, it will be hard for Marv to justify wasting yet another early pick on another DB.

If they lose Nate, stay tuned.

[Bill from NYC]

And if you're willing to cite Marv in the personnel choices during his HC tenure, what about Jauron's influence, then, as well?  Surely he had some say in choosing players like Urlacher, Ian Scott, Alex Brown, Lance Briggs, Todd Johnson, Charles Tillman, Rosevelt Colvin -- a lot of solid guys, and not just CBs.  In five Jauron era drafts, 6 first day O-and D-lineman were chosen.  In the only year they didn't take one they landed Urlacher.

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Jauron IS a defensive back, and a fellow Ivy League grad. Did you notice any other team seeking him out to be head coach? Jauron is also smart.

I make the case that part of the reason he was hired was because he fed into Marv's DB frenzy. There is no other way to explain a draft such as this last one. Do you realize that right now, it looks as if our best picks came in rounds 5 (Williams) and 7 (Pennington)? I say this because it is going to be extremely hard for Whitner to live up to #8 status (let alone salary) under any conditions.

 

Look, I don't want to appear as completely negative. Peters alone is cause to bring optimism even to the most negative of fans, and JP is improving. This is all good. I guess that I simply don't think that Marv is a credible GM, nor do I think that (although he is extremely smart), it is prudent to have a GM "learning the ropes" at his age. It is also very hard for a skeptic like me to believe that he can change his ways at this stage of his life.

 

I hope every day that I will be proven wrong.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RuntheDamnBall]

Jauron IS a defensive back, and a fellow Ivy League grad. Did you notice any other team seeking him out to be head coach? Jauron is also smart.

I make the case that part of the reason he was hired was because he fed into Marv's DB frenzy. There is no other way to explain a draft such as this last one. Do you realize that right now, it looks as if our best picks came in rounds 5 (Williams) and 7 (Pennington)? I say this because it is going to be extremely hard for Whitner to live up to #8 status (let alone salary) under any conditions.

 

Look, I don't want to appear as completely negative. Peters alone is cause to bring optimism even to the most negative of fans, and JP is improving. This is all good. I guess that I simply don't think that Marv is a credible GM, nor do I think that (although he is extremely smart), it is prudent to have a GM "learning the ropes" at his age. It is also very hard for a skeptic like me to believe that he can change his ways at this stage of his life.

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Whitner has played pretty well for a rookie thrust into the starting position pretty much from day one. He'll be fine. I actually think the quality of picks (save perhaps McCargo) was pretty high. All except for Youboty have STARTED this year. That's incredible. We've still got lots to see from Youboty, and Simpson is playing pretty darned well. My opinion? If you can lock up a good secondary right away you can compete in the AFC East. They're looking up at New England, a team that has destroyed them with the short-passing game year in, year out. This year we have played them a lot tougher.

 

Marv may be learning the ropes to an extent, but he knows football. I would at least give him the benefit of a couple more drafts before citing trends.

[Alaska Darin]

And why my friend was their secondary "sh--?" Check this out, and start after 1998. Please, look at the amount of early DBs, and other defenders that were drafted on day 1. Last time I looked, their defense still sucks. They could have drafted DBs with later picks and had guys who sucked, no?

 

I make the case that football is won and lost in the trenches, and continuously using your best resources on little guys is a stupid thing to do. I hold out the Bills a shining example of this. After the superbowl years, when and why do you think that the Bills started losing?

We would draft corners in round 1 and let them walk as ufas. Not only is this a waste of first round talent, the starting lineup becomes a merry go-round of rookie dbs. Do you think this is a good thing?    C'mon Bro! Other teams were signing LBs, OTs, DTs, etc. and keeping them.

 

My biggest hope for the Bills right now is for them to lock up Nate. If they do so, it will be hard for Marv to justify wasting yet another early pick on another DB.

If they lose Nate, stay tuned. 

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Why is the draft considered the best resource?

[makbeer]

You guys always freak out when JP throws 2-3 good passes in a game.

 

Calm down.

 

We're a long way from finding out if this guy is going to make it in the NFL or not.

 

The only bright spots in his career so far have been seam plays to Lee Evans. He needs to show more than that 1 throw in his arsenal to make it.

[SilverNRed]

The only bright spots in his career so far have been seam plays to Lee Evans. He needs to show more than that 1 throw in his arsenal to make it.

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To be fair, he's only really had one receiver his whole career.

 

No TE. No FB. Lousy offensive line. And he's trying to learn a new offense this year.

 

Given all that he's doing pretty good.

[IDBillzFan]

You guys always freak out when JP throws 2-3 good passes in a game.

 

Calm down.

 

We're a long way from finding out if this guy is going to make it in the NFL or not.

 

The only bright spots in his career so far have been seam plays to Lee Evans. He needs to show more than that 1 throw in his arsenal to make it.

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That's absolutely correct. The six in a row he completed on the final drive didn't mean schitt.

[Dibs]

I hope every day that I will be proven wrong.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Your theory on Marv/DJ re: DBs might well be correct. Going on about it won't prove it though....only time will show whether your feeling is correct or not.

 

What is your assessment of Peters though?(stick with me, that Q becomes important).....Last draft focused on the D. This was expected IMO for 3 reasons.

1. Marv believes in building the D first(for various reasons)....& has stated so many times.

2. We were near last in the league last year in D.

3. The skills positions were relatively set(having used so many 1sts & 2nds recently) & the OL was in flux due to the unknown aspect of Peters.

 

Basically, Peters surely was being looked at as a potential LT. That being the case, selecting either OT position high in the draft would have been premature....they grabbed a few later round OTs.....BTW, how is Pennington doing after 3 starts? Does he look like he might make it?(serious Q...I don't know). That leaves the interior of the OL. As you have stated.....& many teams have shown, it is much easier picking up a decent OG or C in the draft using 1st day picks than it is getting a top LT. That means that waiting for next draft/FA period is not setting the team back at all. If we can get a good OG &/or C in the 2nd(or 3rd) next draft......it's possible that by mid-season the OL firms into a decent unit.....certainly the following season. It all hinged(hinges) on Peters.....& decent player selection with the draft picks.

 

I think the plan they have gone with is starting to show some fruit. Young players are developing & their draft picks are showing to be overall good selections. If McCargo can fill the hole next season, & we obtain 2 interior OLmen, we could be quickly competitive IMO.

Remember......before the animal rights guys moved in.....there was more than one way to skin a cat.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!

[Dibs]

.....Bottom line is a QB is likely to succeed depending on his supporting cast....NFL is the ultimate team game.

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I totally agree....which is why I believe QB assessment time should be based on each individual QB & their situation & not their draft position. Look at JP for instance(& there would be many gone through similar....Rogers for one). Selected later in the 1st by a team on decline. By the time he took the field we were a bottom 10 team. The other way around works as well....Manning had many offensive pieces put into place(RB, WR, OL) before being selected #1.....his job was much easier.

I think the rule of picked early therefore really bad team is not so relevant anymore. Sometimes yes....sometimes no. Teams turn around very, very quickly. 49ers are 5 wins, 5 losses. Alex Smith now has a potential decent OL, Star RB & star TE(with a good one there as well).....if Davis lives to potential & their WRs improve....BANG....Smith is in a great position to succeed within 3 years of being drafted.

[DeLuca1967]

That's absolutely correct. The six in a row he completed on the final drive didn't mean schitt.

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With 22 in a row David Carr should be in the Hall of Fame?

[RuntheDamnBall]

With 22 in a row David Carr should be in the Hall of Fame?

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How did Carr do on his final drive, you numbskull?

[DeLuca1967]

The best part is if we do draft another QB, you'll be the first one demanding to "re-start the clock" again.

 

Or maybe his rookie struggles will be bad enough that we get more high draft picks.  AWESOME!

 

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You mean like Loseman's rookie struggles this season? Funny thing is Loseman is not a rookie. He is a third year pro with now 20 starts under his belt. And all he has to hang his hat on is a win over a team that drafted first overall last year.

 

Losman did have good fantasy numbers. But what happened between the 8:25 mark of the first quarter(Evans second TD) and 14:51 of the fourth (the final TD)?

 

3 points? How do you score two 80+ yard TD's on the first two drives and then nothing?

 

4-14 on third downs.

 

INT for a TD.

 

2 passes right into the hands of Defenders. If they weren't Texans they probably would have been INT's.

 

It doesn't matter anyway. I'm sure you have your Loseman excuses already for this weekend. Why don't you save some time and start posting them now. If you want I can start for you.

 

It's the game plan.

 

It's the O-line.

 

It's the weather.

 

It's the receivers fault.

 

It's the lack of running game.

 

I'm sure you have plenty more.