The Avenger Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 I believe there are some jobs Americans won't do - for the prevailing wage. Two industries that rely heavily on illegal workers working for low wages are farming (picking crops) and meat packing. There aren't many hard working Americans working those job for what the farmer/meat packer is willing to pay. I believe that if you wanted Americans to do tough and unplesant jobs you could probably get them to do it, but you'd need to pay them more. Americans won't sleep 20 to a room in migrant farmhouses or live without a car within walking distance of the meat packing plant in North Dakota - illegals will and do. What's the result? Larger profits for farmers/agribusiness/meat packers and lower food prices to consumers. Crack down seriously on illegals, replace them with Americans and see how expensive your next BLT is when the lettuce is $6 a head and the bacon is $6 a pound. People rail against the illegals but fail to see that they do provide benefit to us as consumers the same way we benefit from cheap labor around the world making everything from our shirts to our DVD players. I firmly believe that if we could outsource our crops and meat packing all of those jobs would go to Mexico rather than the Mexicans coming here, but logistics dictate that can't happen so we are where we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMadCap Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 I believe there are some jobs Americans won't do - for the prevailing wage. Two industries that rely heavily on illegal workers working for low wages are farming (picking crops) and meat packing. There aren't many hard working Americans working those job for what the farmer/meat packer is willing to pay. I believe that if you wanted Americans to do tough and unplesant jobs you could probably get them to do it, but you'd need to pay them more. Americans won't sleep 20 to a room in migrant farmhouses or live without a car within walking distance of the meat packing plant in North Dakota - illegals will and do. What's the result? Larger profits for farmers/agribusiness/meat packers and lower food prices to consumers. Crack down seriously on illegals, replace them with Americans and see how expensive your next BLT is when the lettuce is $6 a head and the bacon is $6 a pound. People rail against the illegals but fail to see that they do provide benefit to us as consumers the same way we benefit from cheap labor around the world making everything from our shirts to our DVD players. I firmly believe that if we could outsource our crops and meat packing all of those jobs would go to Mexico rather than the Mexicans coming here, but logistics dictate that can't happen so we are where we are. 661855[/snapback] That may be so, but that is part of the problem. People always want stuff, but don't want to pay for it. For example, in Europe, airlines cost a bit more, but you get the benefit of not traveling in a cattle car. Wouldn't it be nice to at least have that option? But you would never see that happen here, people would just go on travelocity or something at get bargin basement flights, resulting in the nightmare that air travel is today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereComesTheReignAgain Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 I believe there are some jobs Americans won't do - for the prevailing wage. Two industries that rely heavily on illegal workers working for low wages are farming (picking crops) and meat packing. There aren't many hard working Americans working those job for what the farmer/meat packer is willing to pay. I believe that if you wanted Americans to do tough and unplesant jobs you could probably get them to do it, but you'd need to pay them more. Americans won't sleep 20 to a room in migrant farmhouses or live without a car within walking distance of the meat packing plant in North Dakota - illegals will and do. What's the result? Larger profits for farmers/agribusiness/meat packers and lower food prices to consumers. Crack down seriously on illegals, replace them with Americans and see how expensive your next BLT is when the lettuce is $6 a head and the bacon is $6 a pound. People rail against the illegals but fail to see that they do provide benefit to us as consumers the same way we benefit from cheap labor around the world making everything from our shirts to our DVD players. I firmly believe that if we could outsource our crops and meat packing all of those jobs would go to Mexico rather than the Mexicans coming here, but logistics dictate that can't happen so we are where we are. 661855[/snapback] They will do the jobs if you take away the option of sitting home collecting welfare and unemployment! I'll gladly pay $6 a pound for bacon if I make up for that in tax savings. No need to take 35% of workers income if we aren't paying for uninsured illegals' healthcare and government handouts to the lazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 I believe there are some jobs Americans won't do - for the prevailing wage. Two industries that rely heavily on illegal workers working for low wages are farming (picking crops) and meat packing. There aren't many hard working Americans working those job for what the farmer/meat packer is willing to pay. I believe that if you wanted Americans to do tough and unplesant jobs you could probably get them to do it, but you'd need to pay them more. Americans won't sleep 20 to a room in migrant farmhouses or live without a car within walking distance of the meat packing plant in North Dakota - illegals will and do. What's the result? Larger profits for farmers/agribusiness/meat packers and lower food prices to consumers. Crack down seriously on illegals, replace them with Americans and see how expensive your next BLT is when the lettuce is $6 a head and the bacon is $6 a pound. People rail against the illegals but fail to see that they do provide benefit to us as consumers the same way we benefit from cheap labor around the world making everything from our shirts to our DVD players. I firmly believe that if we could outsource our crops and meat packing all of those jobs would go to Mexico rather than the Mexicans coming here, but logistics dictate that can't happen so we are where we are. 661855[/snapback] A lot of illegals also obtain false ID and SSN so they can "pass" with the result that they pay taxes. And they spend their $$ here which does help our economy. The solution is to enforce the laws against business hiring off the books and paying less than minimum wage. Level the playing field and see what happens. If the jobs still go begging (and I agree you won't see too many Anglo migrant workers picking strawberries etc) then the choice is either to raise the minimum wage paid for these jobs or...gulp....let the immigrants do them. My daughter got her job at age 16, has been promoted twice, filed her first income tax return this year (she's now 17), has been able to purchase two 35mm cameras and pay her own car insurance. I told her she had to, period. Although we are well able to pay for snotty designer labels and the like she is perfectly happy with her Chuck Taylors and revels in finding nice jeans at a bargain. If we give her a car it's going to be the old Honda which so far has over 108k miles on it. And she'll be thrilled to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 When I was a kid, we mowed the lawns, cleaned the pools, babysat each other, washed dishes and661651[/snapback] Yup, us too. Saturday morning was for "chores". And when we asked what we got in return, my Dad would reply "room and board". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 We hear it all the time. The illegals are only doing the jobs Americans won't do. My brother owns a landscape business in WNY. We talked today while he was working. Guess who was helping him mulch a Home Depot in Rochester? His kids! Yup, out on Easter break and they were working for him along with a couple of other teenagers from the neighborhood. What a novel concept. When I was a kid, we mowed the lawns, cleaned the pools, babysat each other, washed dishes and flipped burgers. What are the kids doing now? Elighten me as I don't have children so I don't know. That line is a major copout. 661651[/snapback] When my kids were younger, they had paper routes, mowed lawns, baby sat, worked at supermarkets, sub shops, and one waitressed. One is now an IT professional. One is a stay at home Mom who does the books and budgets for her husband's landscaping business. One is a teacher in the "hood". One is in her last few weeks of college and works at Wegmans - doing shifts in video and front end to get more hours. They all had chore lists on Saturday too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Yeh but you didn't have to pay for IPODS, Video Cams, Cell Phones and gas for their new car....I was just happy to have a bicycle to ride. 661676[/snapback] Compared to my parents generation I had a LOT. Compared to my generation my kids have a lot. And so it goes... I hated working as a teen, but if I wanted more than my (I felt) minimal allowance, I had to work. That is the way I raised my kids. One time my son pointed out a kid who had just turned 16, whose parents bought him a car. I asked if he was an only child, and was told "yes." I asked if he wanted me to see if they would adopt him? He was pissed at me but got over it. He just bought his first house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 An e-mail I just got : Subject: Dear President of the United States, House of Representatives and Senators I'M HEADED TO MEXICO Dear Leaders: I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family and I would like to ask you to assist me. I'm going to walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few arrangements. I know you can help with this. I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that I'm on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the following: 1. Free medical care for my entire family. 2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not. 3. All government forms need to be printed in English. 4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history. 6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the flag pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down. 7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch. 8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services. 9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort to learn local traffic laws. 10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police officers speak English. 11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals. 12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and don't enforce any labor laws or tax laws. 13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and never say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place on the economy. I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that Pres. Fox won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely. However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail hunting with the V.P. Thank you so much for your kind help. Sincerely, U S Citizen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 An e-mail I just got : Subject: Dear President of the United States, House of Representatives and Senators I'M HEADED TO MEXICO Dear Leaders: I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family and I would like to ask you to assist me. I'm going to walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few arrangements. I know you can help with this. I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that I'm on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the following: 1. Free medical care for my entire family. 2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not. 3. All government forms need to be printed in English. 4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history. 6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the flag pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down. 7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch. 8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services. 9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort to learn local traffic laws. 10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police officers speak English. 11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals. 12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and don't enforce any labor laws or tax laws. 13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and never say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place on the economy. I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that Pres. Fox won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely. However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail hunting with the V.P. Thank you so much for your kind help. Sincerely, U S Citizen 664311[/snapback] Muahah...fantastic. These mexican immigrants wouldn't have stood a chance in the 1850s. The residents would have beat the shiat out of them until they conformed. Today, we're too politically correct to even BEG them to speak English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 The solution is to enforce the laws against business hiring off the books and paying less than minimum wage. Level the playing field and see what happens. If the jobs still go begging (and I agree you won't see too many Anglo migrant workers picking strawberries etc) then the choice is either to raise the minimum wage paid for these jobs or...gulp....let the immigrants do them. 661933[/snapback] That is a very short sighted solution. Debbie, if we made each and every one of these invaders legal today and gave them minimum wage, etc., they would be priced out of a job almost instantly by the next wave of illegals crossing the border that our pols of both parties choose to not defend. This would be great for both parties. The dems could buy their votes with welfare checks, and the repubs could B word about having to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 It comes down to how much? I do everything and anything at my job... Mow, plow, clean, etc... They pay me to do it... I have maintained a certain lifestyle doing it... Why should I get paid less all of a sudden?... I don't demand the world... I demand a "fair wage" and what illegals make isn't a "fair wage"... It only seems fair to them because of the deplorable, I said DEPLORABLE conditions that they left... What do those conditions have to do with me? Why am I "pinched" by these conditions? Just pay me a "fair wage" and I will do anything... I have been doing it now for over 15 years, no need for illegals. But, if you keep on driving that wage down and raising costs up... That doesn't seem fair does it? Quite an image and smokescreen some have created. Americans will do the work... Let us close the borders and see what will happen... Things will get done... It is just gonna cost you more... I got no problem with that, I live within my means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Muahah...fantastic. These mexican immigrants wouldn't have stood a chance in the 1850s. The residents would have beat the shiat out of them until they conformed. Today, we're too politically correct to even BEG them to speak English. 664335[/snapback] Ahhhh... Joe, that is what happened... They weren't immigrants they were LAND OWNING MEXICANS in what today is the bulk of the western US... You are right... They got the sh*t kicked out of them, land was taken away, and any appeal to Washington was futile. I guess they are paying us back... You just know that history runs deep in Mexican culture. The US hasn't been exactly saintly through the centuries... They always find a way to get the upper hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 I believe there are some jobs Americans won't do - for the prevailing wage. Two industries that rely heavily on illegal workers working for low wages are farming (picking crops) and meat packing. There aren't many hard working Americans working those job for what the farmer/meat packer is willing to pay. I believe that if you wanted Americans to do tough and unplesant jobs you could probably get them to do it, but you'd need to pay them more. Americans won't sleep 20 to a room in migrant farmhouses or live without a car within walking distance of the meat packing plant in North Dakota - illegals will and do. What's the result? Larger profits for farmers/agribusiness/meat packers and lower food prices to consumers. Crack down seriously on illegals, replace them with Americans and see how expensive your next BLT is when the lettuce is $6 a head and the bacon is $6 a pound. People rail against the illegals but fail to see that they do provide benefit to us as consumers the same way we benefit from cheap labor around the world making everything from our shirts to our DVD players. I firmly believe that if we could outsource our crops and meat packing all of those jobs would go to Mexico rather than the Mexicans coming here, but logistics dictate that can't happen so we are where we are. 661855[/snapback] Hunker down America! Work! Eff that benefit... I can live with out it. Who really cares?... Americans would probably end up saving more with less choice... Why are we letting conspicuous consumption dictate everything? Who needs that sh*t... Americans are already over weight and don't need a 6 buck BLT... Do we really need DVD players and this internet?... Do we need cell phones and cable? We can live without a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 I'll pick lettuce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 I'll pick lettuce. 665205[/snapback] I will too! Just think you even get to crap in the field without the boss man giving you a hassle about getting back to work... Reminder... ALWAYS wash your produce... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 I will too! Just think you even get to crap in the field without the boss man giving you a hassle about getting back to work... Reminder... ALWAYS wash your produce... 665215[/snapback] OK, so you and BiB have the produce covered. Any volunteers to take care of Bloomberg's favorite golf courses? He let us know how much this issue concerns him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Ahhhh... Joe, that is what happened... They weren't immigrants they were LAND OWNING MEXICANS in what today is the bulk of the western US... You are right... They got the sh*t kicked out of them, land was taken away, and any appeal to Washington was futile. I guess they are paying us back... You just know that history runs deep in Mexican culture. The US hasn't been exactly saintly through the centuries... They always find a way to get the upper hand. 665171[/snapback] Not what I was talking about. And no, their land wasn't forcefully taken from them. It was purchased by the railorad interests in California, mainly. What I'm speaking about is how the Irish/Italians/Polish/Germans were treated by the english speaking residents when they arrived. They learned a quick lesson about how they should conform. And they did....without the Gubmint's intervention. The society around them forced them to conform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Not what I was talking about. And no, their land wasn't forcefully taken from them. It was purchased by the railorad interests in California, mainly. What I'm speaking about is how the Irish/Italians/Polish/Germans were treated by the english speaking residents when they arrived. They learned a quick lesson about how they should conform. And they did....without the Gubmint's intervention. The society around them forced them to conform. 665235[/snapback] What a crock of shist Joe. bull sh--. All throughout the west... Mostly NM, Texas, and CO... Also... My parents are 2nd generation Polish... They went Polish schools... Even announced their marriage in a all Polish paper... This was 1960. Time and following generations conformed them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Oh... My grandmother NEVER said confession in english... Even if she had an english speaking priest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 What a crock of shist Joe. bull sh--. All throughout the west... Mostly NM, Texas, and CO... Also... My parents are 2nd generation Polish... They went Polish schools... Even announced their marriage in a all Polish paper... This was 1960. Time and following generations conformed them... 665243[/snapback] Uh right. "No irish need apply" Need I say more? My Grandfather spoke polish when he came here and English the day he died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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