Is Buffalo's Ford stamping plant closing?

[Tcali]

just wondering...

[Campy]

They make the F-150s in nearby Norfolk, VA, so the coverage has been pretty thorough. They showed a list of sites to be closed and neither Norfolk's nor Bflo's plants were on it. There might be some lay-offs here, and that would stink for those guys, but I think our economy can better handle it than WNYs can, so here's to hoping that Bflo's plant has no layoffs.

 

All of that said, I guess they (Ford) do reserve the right to change their mind...

[shibuya]

Buffalo's Ford Plant is not closing, but the old Chevy Axle Plant which is now American Axle is laying off a lot of workers.

 

it sucks, people deserve these jobs. Nobody should have to deal with the level of layoffs, unemployment, lack of benefits, decreased wages and more. The people losing these jobs will be lucky if they ever return to the financial level they were at.

[mcjeff215]

Buffalo's Ford Plant is not closing, but the old Chevy Axle Plant which is now American Axle is laying off a lot of workers.

 

it sucks, people deserve these jobs. Nobody should have to deal with the level of layoffs, unemployment, lack of benefits, decreased wages and more. The people losing these jobs will be lucky if they ever return to the financial level they were at.

581348[/snapback]

 

 

Union argument in 3...2...1... (I'm usually up for a good one myself, 'cept it's kinda late and all that.)

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Buffalo's Ford Plant is not closing, but the old Chevy Axle Plant which is now American Axle is laying off a lot of workers.

 

it sucks, people deserve these jobs. Nobody should have to deal with the level of layoffs, unemployment, lack of benefits, decreased wages and more. The people losing these jobs will be lucky if they ever return to the financial level they were at.

581348[/snapback]

 

 

Its one of the effects of living in a free-market economy.

 

This does not make it right, but it should be expected.

 

If folks want to reverse these effects then some thought and discussion needs to be given to America choosing to adopt different economic systems.

 

There are no rules against doing that either.

[Orton's Arm]

Its one of the effects of living in a free-market economy.

 

This does not make it right, but it should be expected.

 

If folks want to reverse these effects then some thought and discussion needs to be given to America choosing to adopt different economic systems.

 

There are no rules against doing that either.

581369[/snapback]

It's a little more complex than that. Several factors are at work:

 

- Some countries have lower wages than the U.S. Free trade encourages job migration to these countries. This is less of an issue in the auto industry though, as Japanese wage rates are if anything a little higher than here in the U.S.

 

- Management is often a problem. This is a HUGE issue for American car companies.

 

- Unions can be part of the problem too, imposing extra costs on companies. An adversarial relationship between union and management can really hurt a company.

 

- Tax law can be a problem. If a company buys a new machine, it doesn't get to write the expense all at once. It must do so over many years. This makes it harder for American companies to compete in industries which require big, expensive machines.

 

- In the 1950s, the Japanese government made it so that its citizens could put their money into savings accounts, and not have to pay taxes on the interest. The people responded by putting a ton of money into these accounts. Japanese banks then lent this money to Japanese companies, which used the money to buy big, expensive machines for their factories.

 

- Because Japanese companies pay a much lower interest rate on their debt than American companies, Japan has been able to dominate the U.S. in every industry focused on big, expensive machines (Televisions, stereos, cameras, other electronics, RAM manufacturing, cars, etc.)

 

- Excessive regulations and red tape can be part of the problem too: the more people a company must hire to do paperwork, the less economically viable it becomes.

 

- Excessive litigation is also a source of problems. It's been estimated that each additional lawyer added to the economy destroys $1 million a year in economic value. Given that the U.S. has 75% of the world's lawyers, you can clearly see where this would be a problem.

 

- Steadily expanding government spending (as a percent of GDP) robs the private sector of the resources needed to create jobs.

 

- Inadequate investment in transportation infrastructure is a big part of the problem. If you want your own trucking company, go ahead and buy or lease a truck. The government will do the rest. But if you want your own rail company, you must first buy your own land, lay down your own rails, pay property taxes on said land (which is insane), buy your own trains, and then you're good to go. Needless to say, such measures have needlessly harmed the U.S. rail infrastructure; and things are much better in Europe and Japan. Moreover, U.S. rail companies are also harmed by the aforementioned things which discourage large capital investments.

 

- As I've detailed in other posts, U.S. employment law creates needless obstacles to employers finding the right candidates. The absence of tort reform is another obstacle, making it almost impossible for employers to communicate with each other about how people did in their past jobs.

 

- The American population is changing, and workplace theft or laziness are probably bigger issues now than in the past.

 

- With earmarked spending programs up by a factor of ten since the mid '80s, and with legislation growing more complex (and unjust) by the minute, it's clear that political lobbying skill is becoming increasingly important. It's all too possible for a politically savvy company to drive out a more economically useful competitor.

 

- While the massive Third World immigration the U.S. has chosen to allow certainly drives down labor costs for specific companies, studies demonstrate these immigrants impose more costs than they save.

 

- China has used currency manipulation to largely capture the furniture and other industries.

 

To make a long story short, it is abundantly clear U.S. policy is not designed to promote economic efficiency or economic vitality. Instead of launching a dozen crusades on individual issues, it would be better for the American people to demand systemic reform. Only with a government whose interests are truly aligned with those of the people, can America truly hope to build the kind of strong economy that creates jobs. Until that day arrives, expect this country to continue importing people while exporting jobs.

[stuckincincy]

Buy American.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

it sucks, people deserve these jobs.

581348[/snapback]

 

Ah yes. Here's your problem: no one deserves anything in this world.

[erynthered]

A buddy of mine works at the Ford stamping plant. He gets $35 an hour to sweep floors.

[Rico]

They make the F-150s in nearby Norfolk, VA, so the coverage has been pretty thorough.  They showed a list of sites to be closed and neither Norfolk's nor Bflo's plants were on it.  There might be some lay-offs here, and that would stink for those guys, but I think our economy can better handle it than WNYs can, so here's to hoping that Bflo's plant has no layoffs.

 

All of that said, I guess they (Ford) do reserve the right to change their mind...

581342[/snapback]

FWIW, I work for a Tier 1 supplier to the Big 3 (+ others), & it's not easy to find people to transfer to long-term assignments supplying Norfolk because that plant is not expected to be there much longer, few years tops. East Coast Automotive field is close to dead.

[colin]

A buddy of mine works at the Ford stamping plant. He gets $35 an hour to sweep floors.

581957[/snapback]

 

this the real issue.

 

ford and gm are getting their asses kicked because they pay too damn much for wages and benefits.

 

gm is in a 10 billion dollar hole a year vs Toyota (who produce most of their vehicles sold into north america in north america) on labour and health care costs alone.

 

 

they are both (ford and gm) big dumb companies locked into horrible contracts with bad workforces.

 

 

auto workers could easily be replaced by highschool dropouts for $12 an hour if there were no union contracts. don't feel bad for auto workers not being able to make as much as they are making now, consider them lucky for having made that much in the first place.

[Campy]

FWIW, I work for a Tier 1 supplier to the Big 3 (+ others), & it's not easy to find people to transfer to long-term assignments supplying Norfolk because that plant is not expected to be there much longer, few years tops. East Coast Automotive field is close to dead.

581981[/snapback]

Well aren't you the bearer of good news and happy thoughts!

[DC Mom]

If Norfolk makes F150s why would they be losing people or closing down soon? Despite the drop-off in sales the full-sized truck market is strong, is it not? Didn't Ford sell almost 1 million F150s in each of the past couple of years?

[Rico]

If Norfolk makes F150s why would they be losing people or closing down soon? Despite the drop-off in sales the full-sized truck market is strong, is it not? Didn't Ford sell almost 1 million F150s in each of the past couple of years?

582094[/snapback]

I do believe they're not the only plant that makes F150s... could be wrong, but I think there's another plant in Ontario.

[BuffaloBud]

Only 5 of the 14 plants to close were announced. The plant in Buffalo was not one of the 5. The remaining 9 will be determined at a later time.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/23/news/compa...sings/index.htm

[SDS]

one factor is the labor costs - another factor could be that their products SUCK ASS. If those workers make that much, perhaps we could expect a better vehicle???

[ChasBB]

I want an American car that gets at least 60 MPG or more. Where's the vision and foresight? American auto makers are about 10-15 years behind the times.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Ah yes. Here's your problem: no one deserves anything in this world.

581951[/snapback]

 

I don't know. I can think of a few people that deserve a kick in the head.

 

Not excluding yourself, of course.

[Buffal0 Bill5]

It's a little more complex than that. Several factors are at work:

 

- Some countries have lower wages than the U.S. Free trade encourages job migration to these countries. This is less of an issue in the auto industry though, as Japanese wage rates are if anything a little higher than here in the U.S.

 

- Management is often a problem. This is a HUGE issue for American car companies.

 

- Unions can be part of the problem too, imposing extra costs on companies. An adversarial relationship between union and management can really hurt a company.

 

- Tax law can be a problem. If a company buys a new machine, it doesn't get to write the expense all at once. It must do so over many years. This makes it harder for American companies to compete in industries which require big, expensive machines.

 

- In the 1950s, the Japanese government made it so that its citizens could put their money into savings accounts, and not have to pay taxes on the interest. The people responded by putting a ton of money into these accounts. Japanese banks then lent this money to Japanese companies, which used the money to buy big, expensive machines for their factories.

 

- Because Japanese companies pay a much lower interest rate on their debt than American companies, Japan has been able to dominate the U.S. in every industry focused on big, expensive machines (Televisions, stereos, cameras, other electronics, RAM manufacturing, cars, etc.)

 

- Excessive regulations and red tape can be part of the problem too: the more people a company must hire to do paperwork, the less economically viable it becomes.

 

- Excessive litigation is also a source of problems. It's been estimated that each additional lawyer added to the economy destroys $1 million a year in economic value. Given that the U.S. has 75% of the world's lawyers, you can clearly see where this would be a problem.

 

- Steadily expanding government spending (as a percent of GDP) robs the private sector of the resources needed to create jobs.

 

- Inadequate investment in transportation infrastructure is a big part of the problem. If you want your own trucking company, go ahead and buy or lease a truck. The government will do the rest. But if you want your own rail company, you must first buy your own land, lay down your own rails, pay property taxes on said land (which is insane), buy your own trains, and then you're good to go. Needless to say, such measures have needlessly harmed the U.S. rail infrastructure; and things are much better in Europe and Japan. Moreover, U.S. rail companies are also harmed by the aforementioned things which discourage large capital investments.

 

- As I've detailed in other posts, U.S. employment law creates needless obstacles to employers finding the right candidates. The absence of tort reform is another obstacle, making it almost impossible for employers to communicate with each other about how people did in their past jobs.

 

- The American population is changing, and workplace theft or laziness are probably bigger issues now than in the past.

 

- With earmarked spending programs up by a factor of ten since the mid '80s, and with legislation growing more complex (and unjust) by the minute, it's clear that political lobbying skill is becoming increasingly important. It's all too possible for a politically savvy company to drive out a more economically useful competitor.

 

- While the massive Third World immigration the U.S. has chosen to allow certainly drives down labor costs for specific companies, studies demonstrate these immigrants impose more costs than they save.

 

- China has used currency manipulation to largely capture the furniture and other industries.

 

To make a long story short, it is abundantly clear U.S. policy is not designed to promote economic efficiency or economic vitality. Instead of launching a dozen crusades on individual issues, it would be better for the American people to demand systemic reform. Only with a government whose interests are truly aligned with those of the people, can American truly hope to build the kind of strong economy that creates jobs. Until that day arrives, expect this country to continue importing people while exporting jobs.

581944[/snapback]

Crap that was a long response! Sorry, theme of the day

[Orton's Arm]

Crap that was a long response!  Sorry, theme of the day

582941[/snapback]

Yeah, I got a little carried away. At the end, I could hardly believe that my response was several times longer than the Fake Fat post to which I was replying!