LabattBlue Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 These two signings are perfect examples of what went wrong during the TD era. Both guys were signed on the downside of their careers to very good contracts. They were name players that looked good on paper, helped sell seats and were better than their predecessors(Wire & Reese/Prioleau). The only problem is...both guys have little or nothing left in the tank. Was Vincent even dressed Sunday? Guys on the wrong side of 30 work well when plugged into an existing lineup that is very good. They are not the kind of guys who can come in and be difference makers in an otherwise ordinary lineup. Unfortunately, the Bills need to address the OL & DL early and often in the draft and with not much in terms of backups, it's look to F/A or keep these two. Wire is never going to cut it as a starter and I'm not sure if Leonhard can overcome his size limitations to become a starter. Baker has shown some promise, but I doubt they will bench Vincent to give Baker a look before the end of the season. It is never easy to cut loose name players, but Vincent and Milloy need to go along with... Adams(cut) Williams(cut) Teague(loss via F/A) Moulds(cut) Posey(cut) Shelton(cut) Clements(loss via F/A) I know this is 9 starters from the current team, but we are not getting much bang for the buck from these guys except for Clements who will want a king's ransom this off season. Get a new GM after the year, invest wisely in F/A and commite to rebuilding your OL & DL via the draft. I am not opposed to going after a younger RFA knowing that you have to give up draft picks in return. It will probably take two years to reload the team and I am hoping that MM can learn from his mistakes. It's very difficult to say, because it's been way too long since the Bills have seen the playoffs and even longer since they won a playoff game, but... It's time to tear it down and rebuild it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanmiami(oh) Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 It's time to tear it down and rebuild it. Unfortuneately, I think thats what has to be done. After this week's collapse I said time to blow the whole thing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Sprinkling in a few guys over 30 is OK. Provided you're strong every where else. If the Bills had a good offense that could move the ball and score, your defense looks much better in a hurry. But a weak offense with an aging defense spells disaster. I don't think you can afford 22 players in their prime, so you have to mix in the old with the young to get a good return on value. But again that only works for a short term when rest of team is solid. These two signings are perfect examples of what went wrong during the TD era. Both guys were signed on the downside of their careers to very good contracts. They were name players that looked good on paper, helped sell seats and were better than their predecessors(Wire & Reese/Prioleau). The only problem is...both guys have little or nothing left in the tank. Was Vincent even dressed Sunday? Guys on the wrong side of 30 work well when plugged into an existing lineup that is very good. They are not the kind of guys who can come in and be difference makers in an otherwise ordinary lineup. Unfortunately, the Bills need to address the OL & DL early and often in the draft and with not much in terms of backups, it's look to F/A or keep these two. Wire is never going to cut it as a starter and I'm not sure if Leonhard can overcome his size limitations to become a starter. Baker has shown some promise, but I doubt they will bench Vincent to give Baker a look before the end of the season. It is never easy to cut loose name players, but Vincent and Milloy need to go along with... Adams(cut) Williams(cut) Teague(loss via F/A) Moulds(cut) Posey(cut) Shelton(cut) Clements(loss via F/A) I know this is 9 starters from the current team, but we are not getting much bang for the buck from these guys except for Clements who will want a king's ransom this off season. Get a new GM after the year, invest wisely in F/A and commite to rebuilding your OL & DL via the draft. I am not opposed to going after a younger RFA knowing that you have to give up draft picks in return. It will probably take two years to reload the team and I am hoping that MM can learn from his mistakes. It's very difficult to say, because it's been way too long since the Bills have seen the playoffs and even longer since they won a playoff game, but... It's time to tear it down and rebuild it. 522833[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMadCap Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 I haven't given up on Big Sam. He's clearly upset at the coach. We can't get rid of our best DT and expect to get better. However, I totally agree that Milloy and Vincent are actually liabilities at the moment. IF they have a dominant DL, who knows? And after the debacle this year, it is unlikely Moulds renegotiates as I hoped... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBob2232 Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 I haven't given up on Big Sam. He's clearly upset at the coach. We can't get rid of our best DT and expect to get better... 522891[/snapback] Why not? thats what we did last year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMadCap Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Why not? thats what we did last year! 522894[/snapback] Kind of the point. But we were supposed to be the greatest defense ever, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 And replace them with who? We have no replacements for them--that is an even bigger problem. You think our secondary is vulnerable now? How about with Coy Wire and who knows who else back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 These two signings are perfect examples of what went wrong during the TD era. Both guys were signed on the downside of their careers to very good contracts. They were name players that looked good on paper, helped sell seats and were better than their predecessors(Wire & Reese/Prioleau). The only problem is...both guys have little or nothing left in the tank. Was Vincent even dressed Sunday? Guys on the wrong side of 30 work well when plugged into an existing lineup that is very good. They are not the kind of guys who can come in and be difference makers in an otherwise ordinary lineup. Unfortunately, the Bills need to address the OL & DL early and often in the draft and with not much in terms of backups, it's look to F/A or keep these two. Wire is never going to cut it as a starter and I'm not sure if Leonhard can overcome his size limitations to become a starter. Baker has shown some promise, but I doubt they will bench Vincent to give Baker a look before the end of the season. It is never easy to cut loose name players, but Vincent and Milloy need to go along with... Adams(cut) Williams(cut) Teague(loss via F/A) Moulds(cut) Posey(cut) Shelton(cut) Clements(loss via F/A) I know this is 9 starters from the current team, but we are not getting much bang for the buck from these guys except for Clements who will want a king's ransom this off season. Get a new GM after the year, invest wisely in F/A and commite to rebuilding your OL & DL via the draft. I am not opposed to going after a younger RFA knowing that you have to give up draft picks in return. It will probably take two years to reload the team and I am hoping that MM can learn from his mistakes. It's very difficult to say, because it's been way too long since the Bills have seen the playoffs and even longer since they won a playoff game, but... It's time to tear it down and rebuild it. 522833[/snapback] awesome! 3-13 again! we'll get an awesome player on the 07 draft for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMadCap Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 And replace them with who? We have no replacements for them--that is an even bigger problem. You think our secondary is vulnerable now? How about with Coy Wire and who knows who else back there. 522896[/snapback] Someone cheaper who will be non-existant in coverage would actually be an upgrade... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted December 7, 2005 Author Share Posted December 7, 2005 And replace them with who? We have no replacements for them--that is an even bigger problem. You think our secondary is vulnerable now? How about with Coy Wire and who knows who else back there. 522896[/snapback] Did you read my post or just the title of the thread? I discussed the potential of Rashad Baker as a potential replacement for Vincent. Also, there is this thing every March called F/A where you let go over priced and over the hill players and replace them with younger players who you believe can do a better job. Just because they are "name" players that everybody has heard of doesn't mean they are the answer to the problem.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted December 7, 2005 Author Share Posted December 7, 2005 awesome! 3-13 again! we'll get an awesome player on the 07 draft for sure! 522897[/snapback] 3-13 next year without them on the roster versus a likely 4-12 this year with them on the roster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Trust me it will NOT be an upgrade! Not even close. So you actually want Clements, Vincent and Milloy gone? Great secondary we'll have. Be careful what you wish for---the problem with this team is not talent. One game all year they were outclassed--San Diego. The problem is attitude, coaching and folding down the stretch. This team needs to learn how to win close games. This season again is like last year--you look back and the Bills have blown three late 4th quarter leads (New England, Miami, Carolina). That's why this is so maddening. You get rid of all those players and then we are really bad---like GW 1st season bad when we lost because we had no talent. At least we're closer with these guys. If you can keep Moulds and even Williams by them taking pay cuts and then adding incentive money then do it. There are no replacements on this roster anyway for the safeties and cap wise it is not bad to keep them. Safeties get burned--look at a top 5 pick for the Redskins. He has gotten burned plenty this year as has Roy Williams of the Cowboys. Safeties will get burned at times--it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 This team needs to learn how to win close games. 522908[/snapback] Glad we have all that veteran leadership to show how its done.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted December 7, 2005 Author Share Posted December 7, 2005 I don't want Clements gone. His salary demands will unfortunately end his career as a Bill. You say the problem with this team is not talent, I say what looks good on paper i.e. "big name" players, doesn't always translate to quality play on the field. The reason we were so bad in GW's first season is because there was no money to sign anyone because of the salary cap mess. I don't believe that will be an issue this offseason. If Moulds and Williams agree to paycuts without contract extensions, giving them "incentive money"(as you state) or moving money to the back end of the contracts, I am okay with that....but neither gets a nickel more just because they were so kind to help out the Bills!!! The cap figures for these two are unbelievable. Trust me it will NOT be an upgrade! Not even close. So you actually want Clements, Vincent and Milloy gone? Great secondary we'll have. Be careful what you wish for---the problem with this team is not talent. One game all year they were outclassed--San Diego. The problem is attitude, coaching and folding down the stretch. This team needs to learn how to win close games. This season again is like last year--you look back and the Bills have blown three late 4th quarter leads (New England, Miami, Carolina). That's why this is so maddening. You get rid of all those players and then we are really bad---like GW 1st season bad when we lost because we had no talent. At least we're closer with these guys. If you can keep Moulds and even Williams by them taking pay cuts and then adding incentive money then do it. There are no replacements on this roster anyway for the safeties and cap wise it is not bad to keep them. Safeties get burned--look at a top 5 pick for the Redskins. He has gotten burned plenty this year as has Roy Williams of the Cowboys. Safeties will get burned at times--it happens. 522908[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 awesome! 3-13 again! we'll get an awesome player on the 07 draft for sure! 522897[/snapback] well, we're looking at a likely 5-11 with this star-studded cast. Is that so much of a drop-off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Kind of the point. But we were supposed to be the greatest defense ever, right? 522895[/snapback] I don't think thats quite accurate. They were supposed to be the greatest defense since the 85 Bears! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 3-13 next year without them on the roster versus a likely 4-12 this year with them on the roster? 522905[/snapback] oh CMON! you NEGATIVE NANCY! we'll knock off somebody before it's over, right?! right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbyte Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 The problem is this is not a talented team. There are some talanted players but not many. There are plenty of name players but some that are over the hill. We have not won with them and it looks like we will not again. So why keep them eating up cap space. Cut them, draft well and sign some good young FAs and build from there. It will be better to have a good up and coming team than what we have here. Vets have to go someday so lets start over but the right way. The Milloys, Vincents,Adams can no lomger help this team, just retard progress. I am not that excited about the coaching staff but it is only their second year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 I do think that cutting Milloy & Vincent would be a good move. Rashad Baker is very talented and their is no real reason to keep him on the bench. While I do think Milloy has lost a step his position would be much harder to replace. We have no one on the team who can play at SS right now. Any suggestions on who can replace Milloy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 I'd consider keeping Posey and Shelton- both can be good players if properly used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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