Bryant McKinnie...

[Alaska Darin]

In reviewing the first round from that year, there are not too many guys on that list that are as good as each team thought they would be.

511214[/snapback]

Which makes that year alot like every other year of the NFL draft.

[Peter]

Which makes that year alot like every other year of the NFL draft.

511274[/snapback]

 

No doubt. There are a lot of disappointments in the draft -- especially the first round.

 

By the way, I thought of you last night. I was watching one of the highlight shows on our last Superbowl against the Cowpokes. I replayed the play at the beginning of the third quarter when the Cowboys recovered the fumble and ran it back for a touchdown. I was there at the stadium and yesterday may have been the first time that I had an opportunity to watch that play in slow motion instant replay (which I did several times last night).

 

What are your recollections about that play (other than it being the turning point in the game)? There were a couple of interesting things about that play.

[Alaska Darin]

No doubt.  There are a lot of disappointments in the draft -- especially the first round.

 

By the way, I thought of you last night.  I was watching one of the highlight shows on our last Superbowl against the Cowpokes.  I replayed the play at the beginning of the third quarter when the Cowboys recovered the fumble and ran it back for a touchdown.  I was there at the stadium and yesterday may have been the first time that I had an opportunity to watch that play in slow motion instant replay (which I did several times last night).

 

What are your recollections about that play (other than it being the turning point in the game)?  There were a couple of interesting things about that play.

511345[/snapback]

Nothing at this time (I'm already on my holiday break ). I've made it a point not to watch any of the replays of any of those games (my Tivos each picked up those shows and I quickly deleted them after the pain in my chest subsided) and there's been alot of suds tossed back to erase the first time I really watched it. What did you see?

 

The draft is really a crap shoot and the first round is the easiest to figure. A third of the picks will be superstars, a third will be serviceable starters, and a third will be outright busts. It's uncanny how accurate that is, though the trend towards busts is heading upwards and the trend with superstars is heading down.

[GG]

Never was a big Butler fan, but AJ Smith was a big loss.  Marcellus Wiley played well for the Chargers leading to a big contract with Dallas (lol, he was a bust there) and what a luxury with Rivers.  They have trade bait or they have time to work with and develop him, great pick.

511194[/snapback]

 

You realize that AJ Smith didn't handle collegiate scouting duties in Buffalo and was the director of pro personnel? Wiley was a bust in SD after getting the big bucks. Parcells picked him up for dirt cheap after SD cut him as a cap liability.

 

Rivers, nice trade bait, with absolutely no ramifications on the cap and the rich pay day they'll have to give Brees. Yeah, AJ Smith was really smart to engineer Rivers' holdout that elevated Brees back into the starting lineup.

[BADOLBILZ]

Thank you, your honor.

Council rests... 

510049[/snapback]

 

Let me just jump in there and clear some things up before the Council rests.

 

You've been jumping all over McKinnie. Bottom line is results. He is achieving his purpose out there. Is he blowing people up like Tony Boselli in his prime? No, but he's BLOCKING. That's his job. 10 games, 1 sack allowed, and that was in garbage time of a blowout. At 6'9" he doesn't get his pads down and move the pile, but still he blocks effectively in the running game. He had the largest wingspan of any player in the NFL when he joined the league, and that's what keeps right handed QB's from getting blindsided. We've had a few of those righties, and if they keep getting hit like JP got hit by Shawn Merriman at the end of that game last Sunday, we might need to acquire some more soon.

 

I saw your claim about Williams playing in as many games as McKinnie. That may be technically so, but not counting incomplete performances by Williams and counting McKinnie's holdout against him is just a bit inequitable,

 

Wouldn't ya' say? Does "The Big Excuse" get a gold star for coming in for a few snaps now? I mean, like he's done for so much of this season? Or just for playing a quarter before he gets knocked unconscious or has to be helped off the field by a trainer because of a bad hammy? The reality is, Williams has spent the equivalent of a full season sidelined by one injury or another in his brief 3.5 seasons. That may fly for a playmaker like Randy Moss, but not for a grunt. That guy needs to be in there every play.

 

Like McKinnie.

 

The extent of the holdout in McKinnie's rookie year (8 games) accounts for the ONLY games he's missed as a pro. A holdout, which was caused by the Vikings attempt to break the slotting system which has effectively determined how draft picks will be paid, not by McKinnie asking for a penny more than his predecessor at that selection. Anyone remember the Vikes skipping on a draft pick and KC jumping ahead of them.......yeah, THOSE Vikings.

 

Did the guy get it on with a hooker on the Love Boat and then destroy the evidence? Who cares, he's going to Honolulu by plane and he's way too tall to join the mile high club in one of those bathrooms. Beside, E Moulds does that every weekend, sans the boat. Hell, if we found out Mike Williams had sex with a woman, it would at least alleviate concerns about him even having a pulse.

 

They would have been better off selecting McKinnie. It's only revisionist history because it wasn't done right the first time.

[Peter]

Nothing at this time (I'm already on my holiday break ).  I've made it a point not to watch any of the replays of any of those games (my Tivos each picked up those shows and I quickly deleted them after the pain in my chest subsided) and there's been alot of suds tossed back to erase the first time I really watched it.  What did you see?

 

The draft is really a crap shoot and the first round is the easiest to figure.  A third of the picks will be superstars, a third will be serviceable starters, and a third will be outright busts.  It's uncanny how accurate that is, though the trend towards busts is heading upwards and the trend with superstars is heading down.

511430[/snapback]

 

I have taken the same approach as you. It has taken me this long to watch that. I have my DVR set to automatically record Buffalo Bills related shows. I noticed that it recorded it when I went home last night. I had not seen it before.

 

I noticed two things. First, it looked like it may not have even been a fumble because it appeared that the ground caused the fumble. There is a caveat though. The angle that they showed was from the sideline and the view was partially blocked by the players. I watched it over and over. Thurman was hit before he crossed the line of scrimmage and looked like he was extending his left hand (with the ball) trying to get as much as he could out of the play. It appeared as though the ball popped out when the ball (while in his hand) hit the ground. You know what happened next.

 

The other thing that surprised me was that Kent Hull was beaten on the play. The Bills were running a trap. Hull was beaten, and his man was the one who caused the initial contact behind the line of scrimmage. Our left guard (I could not make out who was playing LG on that play) also was beaten. He did not get to his guy quickly enough on the trap. As a result, Thurman had very little room.

 

I do not bring any of this up to say that we should have won. Yet, the whole game changed on that one play. I was at the game. The Cowboy players walked right in front of us as they went to the tunnel at halftime. They looked like a beaten team. So did their fans. The Bills were energized.

 

The whole mood of the stadium and the players on both sides changed after that play. The rest is history.

 

I am at the airport waiting for a fligh to visit my in-laws. Happy Thanksgiving to you and everyone else.

[CentralVaBills]

I watched McKinnie staggering around looking like a stiff that had stepped in a pile of quick-crete at halftime. As disappointing as Mike Williams has been, even he hasn't looked as awful as McKinnie has most of the times I've seen him.

Thank you for once again reinforcing the fact that you have no idea what you're watching. It makes your soon-to-be-over crusade that much more explicable.

509834[/snapback]

God, I can't stand you. Not that it matters, but this has to win the stupidest post ever, hands down, award.

 

Seriously, this boggles my mind how ignorant you are toward people. If no one agrees with you and your Kool-Aid approach, all you do is attack their "crusade". So, let me get this straight.....we have one of the WORST lines in the NFL. Mike Williams can't start on that line. However, this is your brilliant quote......

 

"As disappointing as Mike Williams has been, even he hasn't looked as awful as McKinnie has most of the times I've seen him."

 

But yet, McKinnie is a starter at the most demanding position on his team's line, that is seeing its offense improve more and more every week. Yet, Mckinnie , according to your brilliance" is not only awful, but he's worse than Mike Williams, "most of the times". Are you seriously that far stuck up everyone at OBD's ass, or are you seriously that ignorant? You don't even have to think McKinnie is that good. But, there is no comparison between the two at this point in their careers.

 

Seriously, for as much as you rip on people, you are a true moron. You are a hateful, arrogant, moron. Seriously Simon, wake up.

 

Of course, this is coming from the same guy that insists we are only a player or two away from being dominant or whatever drivel you like to spew from time to time.

 

I would do ANYTHING, to compete on a field of play against you. ANYTHING.

[CentralVaBills]

Let me just jump in there and clear some things up before the Council rests.

 

  You've been jumping all over McKinnie.  Bottom line is results.  He is achieving his purpose out there.  Is he blowing people up like Tony Boselli in his prime?  No, but he's BLOCKING.  That's his job.  10 games, 1 sack allowed, and that was in garbage time of a blowout.  At 6'9" he doesn't get his pads down and move the pile, but still he blocks effectively in the running game.  He had the largest wingspan of any player in the NFL when he joined the league, and that's what keeps right handed QB's from getting blindsided.  We've had a few of those righties, and if they keep getting hit like JP got hit by Shawn Merriman at the end of that game last Sunday, we might need to acquire some more soon.

 

  I saw your claim about Williams playing in as many games as McKinnie.  That may be technically so, but not counting incomplete performances by Williams and counting McKinnie's holdout against him is just a bit inequitable,

 

  Wouldn't ya' say?  Does "The Big Excuse" get a gold star for coming in for a few snaps now?  I mean, like he's done for so much of this season?  Or just for playing a quarter before he gets knocked unconscious or has to be helped off the field by a trainer because of a bad hammy?  The reality is, Williams has spent the equivalent of a full season sidelined by one injury or another in his brief 3.5 seasons.  That may fly for a playmaker like Randy Moss, but not for a grunt.  That guy needs to be in there every play. 

 

  Like McKinnie.

 

  The extent of the holdout in McKinnie's rookie year (8 games) accounts for the ONLY games he's missed as a pro.  A holdout, which was caused by the Vikings attempt to break the slotting system which has effectively determined how draft picks will be paid, not by McKinnie asking for a penny more than his predecessor at that selection.  Anyone remember the Vikes skipping on a draft pick and KC jumping ahead of them.......yeah, THOSE Vikings.

 

  Did the guy get it on with a hooker on the Love Boat and then destroy the evidence? Who cares, he's going to Honolulu by plane and he's way too tall to join the mile high club in one of those bathrooms.  Beside, E Moulds does that every weekend, sans the boat.  Hell, if we found out Mike Williams had sex with a woman, it would at least alleviate concerns about him even having a pulse.

 

  They would have been better off selecting McKinnie.  It's only revisionist history because it wasn't done right the first time.

511475[/snapback]

How dare you post something intelligent about McKinnie. It's only a matter of time before the RAH RAH, Bills can do no wrong crowd, tries to rip this thing apart.

 

Nice post, not that it matters here though. At least with the direction of the team now, the people who continue to refute stuff like this look more and more like idiots.

 

Thanks for the sanity, I'll buy you a cold one at a game sometime!

[Fezmid]

How dare you post something intelligent about McKinnie.  It's only a matter of time before the RAH RAH, Bills can do no wrong crowd, tries to rip this thing apart.

 

Nice post, not that it matters here though.  At least with the direction of the team now, the people who continue to refute stuff like this look more and more like idiots.

 

Thanks for the sanity, I'll buy you a cold one at a game sometime!

511507[/snapback]

I still think it seems like too much of a coincidence that MW *dominates* the second half of last season, dominates the first few games of this season, gets his ankle rolled up on, and all of a sudden doesn't play well. Yet it's not an injury issue, it's because he's fat, lazy, and has no heart.

CW

[CentralVaBills]

I still think it seems like too much of a coincidence that MW *dominates* the second half of last season, dominates the first few games of this season, gets his ankle rolled up on, and all of a sudden doesn't play well.  Yet it's not an injury issue, it's because he's fat, lazy, and has no heart. 

CW

511509[/snapback]

I'm also thinking its pretty much the Kool-Aid crowd who thought MW was dominating last year as well as this year.

 

The Bills as a whole pretty much dominated the high school teams we played in the 2nd half of the season last year. I don't know anyone, outside of the same crowd of fans who always think every Bills player dominates, that thought MW was dominating this year before his injury.

 

The lack of insight into this team, and analyzation of who we actually beat last year has us in our position that we are in now. Mike Williams never dominated anyone of any stature in the league. He might have had a moment or two here and there, but he never has dominated. But hell, everyone in this league has had moments.

 

If TD would have realized that we haven't had a great win in his five years here, including last years run, he would have realized that we were good enough to beat all medicore teams but we need players to make the next step. Instead, he acutally drank his own Kool-Aid, and stood put, and even subtracted players, and now we even suck worse.

 

I also think that the ankle injury to Williams has hurt him much more than people are letting on. I don't think however, that he is even anything approaching Bryant McKinnie at this point. The Vikes have no inkling or thought of anyone being their LT as long as McKinnie is under contract. That's enough to top the MW pick right there.

[Ramius]

I still think it seems like too much of a coincidence that MW *dominates* the second half of last season, dominates the first few games of this season, gets his ankle rolled up on, and all of a sudden doesn't play well.  Yet it's not an injury issue, it's because he's fat, lazy, and has no heart. 

CW

511509[/snapback]

 

I'm with you. Ever notice how those of us that say MW dominated last year (which he did) are morons, because other posters, who are obviously offensive line gurus, state that its plain as day that MW sucked last year.

 

Too many posters say MW sucks because he didnt play terribly well in his first 2 seasons. Therefore, he will always suck, and will never improve.

 

And dont even get me started about this season. MW has a high ankle sprain. That type of injury lingers on for a long time, and some players miss significant portions of the season with one. One cant fairly comment on MW's play this season because of his injury.

 

Its simple. MW played great last season. He looked good in week 1. Week 2, he gets hurt, and his play hasnt been up to par. Think the ankle may have something to do with that?

[Rico]

Did the guy get it on with a hooker on the Love Boat and then destroy the evidence? Who cares, he's going to Honolulu by plane and he's way too tall to join the mile high club in one of those bathrooms.  Beside, E Moulds does that every weekend, sans the boat.  Hell, if we found out Mike Williams had sex with a woman, it would at least alleviate concerns about him even having a pulse.

511475[/snapback]

 

Damn! That is one fugged-up paragraph, I love it!

[Alaska Darin]

God, I can't stand you.  Not that it matters, but this has to win the stupidest post ever, hands down, award.

 

Seriously, this boggles my mind how ignorant you are toward people.  If no one agrees with you and your Kool-Aid approach, all you do is attack their "crusade".  So, let me get this straight.....we have one of the WORST lines in the NFL.  Mike Williams can't start on that line.  However, this is your brilliant quote......

 

"As disappointing as Mike Williams has been, even he hasn't looked as awful as McKinnie has most of the times I've seen him."

 

But yet, McKinnie is a starter at the most demanding position on his team's line, that is seeing its offense improve more and more every week.  Yet, Mckinnie , according to your brilliance" is not only awful, but he's worse than Mike Williams, "most of the times".  Are you seriously that far stuck up everyone at OBD's ass, or are you seriously that ignorant?  You don't even have to think McKinnie is that good.  But, there is no comparison between the two at this point in their careers.

 

Seriously, for as much as you rip on people, you are a true moron.  You are a hateful, arrogant, moron.  Seriously Simon, wake up.

 

Of course, this is coming from the same guy that insists we are only a player or two away from being dominant or whatever drivel you like to spew from time to time.

 

I would do ANYTHING, to compete on a field of play against you.  ANYTHING.

511503[/snapback]

It's positively hysterical that you're posting about how we dominated mediocre competition at the end of last season while lauding the Vikings offense as "improving more and more each week" when two of their last three opponents were friggin' Detroit and horrific Green Bay. Oh, and in the other game against the Giants, their offense got had ELEVEN first downs, TWELVE rushing yards and ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY SEVEN total yards for THE GAME. That's apparently a juggernaught in the middle of Virginia.

 

Go look in the mirror, Francis. You're literally the Baron Fuktard of football analysis.

[CentralVaBills]

I'm with you. Ever notice how those of us that say MW dominated last year (which he did) are morons, because other posters, who are obviously offensive line gurus, state that its plain as day that MW sucked last year.

 

Too many posters say MW sucks because he didnt play terribly well in his first 2 seasons. Therefore, he will always suck, and will never improve. 

 

And dont even get me started about this season. MW has a high ankle sprain. That type of injury lingers on for a long time, and some players miss significant portions of the season with one. One cant fairly comment on MW's play this season because of his injury.

 

Its simple. MW played great last season. He looked good in week 1. Week 2, he gets hurt, and his play hasnt been up to par. Think the ankle may have something to do with that?

511525[/snapback]

Mike Williams didn't DOMINATE last year. Mike Williams wasn't GREAT last year. He was serviceable. Dominators and great players are all pro's. Mike Williams is never even considered in the same breath with all pro's OR guys being considered all pros.

 

And if Big Mike was so good this season after DOMINATING last season, why the hell would they switch his offensive line position this year? He may be hurt, anyone can concede that, but there's no way an NFL team switches a DOMINATING, and GREAT offensive tackle to another spot on a line, so he can dominate and be great at a less demanding line spot.

 

Wake up. After all the ass-sucking McNally worshippers, I can't imagine God McNally moving Big Mike to another spot because he's been so "dominating".

[Alaska Darin]

I do not bring any of this up to say that we should have won.  Yet, the whole game changed on that one play.  I was at the game.  The Cowboy players walked  right in front of us as they went to the tunnel at halftime.  They looked like a beaten team.  So did their fans.  The Bills were energized.

 

The whole mood of the stadium and the players on both sides changed after that play.  The rest is history.

 

I am at the airport waiting for a fligh to visit my in-laws.  Happy Thanksgiving to you and everyone else.

511487[/snapback]

I agree that that play completely changed the game. Until that point, we were physically whipping the Cowboys' asses. I was worried at the end of the first half when we couldn't punch the ball into the endzone and settled for a FG but I absolutely knew we were done when they returned that fumble for a score.

 

It's amazing how resolute that team was in games that didn't end in Roman Numerals - like the Bizarro BILLS in the SB.

 

Happy Thanksgiving to you the others who make this board the great place it is.

[CentralVaBills]

It's positively hysterical that you're posting about how we dominated mediocre competition at the end of last season while lauding the Vikings offense as "improving more and more each week" when two of their last three opponents were friggin' Detroit and horrific Green Bay.  Oh, and in the other game against the Giants, their offense got had ELEVEN first downs, TWELVE rushing yards and ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY SEVEN total yards for THE GAME.  That's apparently a juggernaught in the middle of Virginia.

 

Go look in the mirror, Francis.  You're literally the Baron Fuktard of football analysis.

511530[/snapback]

As opposed to say the Bills who can't even stay competitive with say the Saints, because they are road games.

 

I seem to remember the Vikings being as about as putrid as the Bills at one point this season. But let's see, one team is seeming to be getting better, ON THE ROAD even, and one team is a joke on the road.

 

Yeah, to me, the Vikings are getting better, because they were the fuggin Lions and Packers about 4 weeks ago. They aren't bad lately with Brad Johnson at QB. I don't give a sh-- who it's against. And the fact that their offense is starting to click ON THE ROAD, is good enough for me.

 

Again, another internet wannabe who types well. Of course though, in Alaska, I hear the 6 on 6 football is played well.......maybe that's what makes you....an expert on good one liners......I mean football.

[Rico]

Mike Williams never dominated anyone of any stature in the league.  He might have had a moment or two here and there, but he never has dominated. 

511514[/snapback]

I would agree with that. He looked solid the last 10 games or so of 2004. But never dominant. My hope was that , under JMac, he would continue to improve and become dominant. Unfortunately, he got hurt at a very bad time. His contract isn't good value for merely a solid RT, and it's finally cost-effective dead-cap-wise to let him go.

 

Mike Williams didn't DOMINATE last year.  Mike Williams wasn't GREAT last year.  He was serviceable.  Dominators and great players are all pro's.  Mike Williams is never even considered in the same breath with all pro's OR guys being considered all pros.

 

And if Big Mike was so good this season after DOMINATING last season, why the hell would they switch his offensive line position this year?  He may be hurt, anyone can concede that, but there's no way an NFL team switches a DOMINATING, and GREAT offensive tackle to another spot on a line, so he can dominate and be great at a less demanding line spot.

511535[/snapback]

Very true.

[CentralVaBills]

I would agree with that. He looked solid the last 10 games or so of 2003. But never dominant. My hope was that , under JMac, he would continue to improve and become dominant. Unfortunately, he got hurt at a very bad time. His contract isn't good value for merely a solid RT, and it's finally cost-effective dead-cap-wise to let him go.

511542[/snapback]

This is how I view Mike Williams 100%. But for people to rip Bryant McKinnie just because Williams is becoming a stiff is pure horseshit. Just because we chose the wrong one of the two.

 

McKinnie seems, by most people around the league, to be fitting in well.....so well, he might just see the pro bowl soon.

 

I just don't see why some people have to insist on tearing down McKinnie, when he is clearly more valuable at this point.

[Alaska Darin]

As opposed to say the Bills who can't even stay competitive with say the Saints, because they are road games.

 

I seem to remember the Vikings being as about as putrid as the Bills at one point this season.  But let's see, one team is seeming to be getting better, ON THE ROAD even, and one team is a joke on the road. 

 

Yeah, to me, the Vikings are getting better, because they were the fuggin Lions and Packers about 4 weeks ago.  They aren't bad lately with Brad Johnson at QB.  I don't give a sh-- who it's against.  And the fact that their offense is starting to click ON THE ROAD, is good enough for me.   

 

Again, another internet wannabe who types well.  Of course though, in Alaska, I hear the 6 on 6 football is played well.......maybe that's what makes you....an expert on good one liners......I mean football.

511541[/snapback]

Have a nice vacation.

 

Signed,

Internet wannabe who types well AND is sick of your crap.

[Fezmid]

It's positively hysterical that you're posting about how we dominated mediocre competition at the end of last season while lauding the Vikings offense as "improving more and more each week" when two of their last three opponents were friggin' Detroit and horrific Green Bay.  Oh, and in the other game against the Giants, their offense got had ELEVEN first downs, TWELVE rushing yards and ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY SEVEN total yards for THE GAME.  That's apparently a juggernaught in the middle of Virginia.

 

Go look in the mirror, Francis.  You're literally the Baron Fuktard of football analysis.

511530[/snapback]

You must've missed the play were McKinnie returned an INT for a TD. And the play where he returned a kick for a TD. And the play where he returned teh punt for a TD.

 

He's awesome, someone on this thread said so. Please don't argue with his genius or he'll come up with a snappy insult!

 

CW