JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Is it just me or is he having a REAL bad year so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like A Mofo Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Is it just me or is he having a REAL bad year so far? 457237[/snapback] It is definately not you. I have no clue what his problem is thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 <on semi-related soapbox> I have NEVER understood why kickers do not use the sideline when trying to get the ball inside the 20. It drives me CRAZY when punters kick a mile high straight down the middle and either it just sails into the end zone or -OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH - hits at the 10 or 5 or 1 then bounces into the end zone as some ST demon impotently flails at it. OOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH so CLOSE! What is the percentage of that play working - like 3.7%?????? Coffin Corner - where is the Coffin Corner!!!!!! <off semi-related soapbox> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 He doesn't look comfortable for some reason. Steamed over Dorenbos maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSJayDee Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I have NEVER understood why kickers do not use the sideline when trying to get the ball inside the 20. I've explained the rationale for this b4, although I don't entirely advocate it myself, I'll do it again. There's 2 basic reasons: 1) it's 'safer'. Assuming that the punter puts his whole leg into it (it's even more of a gamble if he doesn't), an accurate punt is w/in 10 yards of where he aims it. Ignoring the 'Pythagrean effect', that equates to roughly his target +/- 10 yards (You're not concerned w/ the distance lost by kicking to the sideline in this case.) Much worse than that & you can actually have worse results than a touchback. Of course if he doesn't hit it full hang time, if he fails to get the ball OB, you've given the returners an opportunity to return it w/o your coverage guys in proper positions. That's potentially real bad. 2) You're removing the onus of doing something good away from the punter & giving multiple people the opportunity. W/ a 'pooch' punt, there are several cover men potentially able to get in position to make a good play on the ball provided the punter only does an 'adequate' job. And w/ the 'pooch' punt, the %age of times they'll get the ball outside the 20 is very small (15 yard punts that get caught at the 25 withstanding ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Food_Pyramid_Wrong Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 sorry to be such a conspiracy theorist but...I really think the NFL does not want punters trying to 'coffin corner' punt. I think they want to minimize the times offenses are starting near their own goal line. If they're unsuccessful games can easily become blowouts. The NFL wants all of their games to come down to fourth quarter nail biters much like basketball. And anything they can subtly do to control the game and ensure close finishes, they will do. Punters were getting very good at coffin corner kicks in the late eighties. I can't believe that suddenly they lack that skill. That's all I have to say about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB2004 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 He's trying to hard. I'd like to see him go back to kicking it 45 yards consistently. It looks like sometimes he's trying to kick it to the other end of the stadium and then knocks it off the side of his foot. He'll probably come back next game and start knocking those kicks far like he did last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSJayDee Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Punters were getting very good at coffin corner kicks in the late eighties. I can't believe that suddenly they lack that skill. I agree w/ you to some extent on this. However, bear in mind, like other things, ST have evolved/improved as well. Back then, there wasn't the emphasis placed on ST that they expend now. Back then, punters were able to 'soft foot' the ball & get away w/ it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art in PNS Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Is it just me or is he having a REAL bad year so far? 457237[/snapback] I don't think he and Schenck are on the same page yet. Lindell is happier and Moorman suffers not sure which is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick in* england Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I don't think he and Schenck are on the same page yet. Lindell is happier and Moorman suffers not sure which is better. 457388[/snapback] The points every time man. I think the problem is Schneck related too. I would guess that the velocity of the snap, the angle of the ball from the snap, the amount Moorman is having to work the ball in his hands before he drops it for the kick has changed with a new punter. Factor in chaos theory for each of those, the bounce of the ball if it hits the turf etc and you're looking at a high number of potential bad punts. Moorman has lacked consistency so far but at any time could come back to nailing perfect punts. It also depends how much kicking time he got in camp with Baker hanging around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30dive Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 So now Bills fans want they're Punter and their Placekicker to have a good year. - NFL office, NY League rule: The Buffalo Bills can only have one good kicker per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 In the old days when they tried for the corner, how often did the punter kick it off the side of his foot for a 20 to 25 yard kick. Too often. I believe they are just playing the odds now and avoiding that kind of result. Also, when he tries to kick for the corner, he changes his motion. Think of it like a golf shot. Same = good, different usually = bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Not as many 3 and outs to practice with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 In the old days when they tried for the corner, how often did the punter kick it off the side of his foot for a 20 to 25 yard kick. Too often. I believe they are just playing the odds now and avoiding that kind of result. Also, when he tries to kick for the corner, he changes his motion. Think of it like a golf shot. Same = good, different usually = bad. 457427[/snapback] hello- that's all he does is point his body to the corner he's not putting spin on the ball with a contorted kicking motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 1) it's 'safer'. Assuming that the punter puts his whole leg into it (it's even more of a gamble if he doesn't), an accurate punt is w/in 10 yards of where he aims it. Ignoring the 'Pythagrean effect', that equates to roughly his target +/- 10 yards (You're not concerned w/ the distance lost by kicking to the sideline in this case.) Much worse than that & you can actually have worse results than a touchback. Of course if he doesn't hit it full hang time, if he fails to get the ball OB, you've given the returners an opportunity to return it w/o your coverage guys in proper positions. That's potentially real bad.2) You're removing the onus of doing something good away from the punter & giving multiple people the opportunity. W/ a 'pooch' punt, there are several cover men potentially able to get in position to make a good play on the ball provided the punter only does an 'adequate' job. And w/ the 'pooch' punt, the %age of times they'll get the ball outside the 20 is very small (15 yard punts that get caught at the 25 withstanding ). 1) I don't see how aiming a kick out of bounds increases the risk for a long return - on the contrary I think it minimizes it. If the kick is executed well the ball goes out of bounds = no return. If the kick is anywhere close but not out of bounds, you've cornered (pun intended) the return to one corner of the field and only need to cover the kick from the front and the one side. 2) I WANT to remove the onus from coverage guys from having to make a spectacular play (usually unsuccessful). On the corner kick - as above - if it is executed adequately and doesn't go out of bounds - the onus is removed from specific gunners to make spectacular plays. Because of the ball position now the return team as a whole simply has to have adequate coverage to keep the return man pinned to that corner. The sideline is your friend! In the old days when they tried for the corner, how often did the punter kick it off the side of his foot for a 20 to 25 yard kick. Too often. I believe they are just playing the odds now and avoiding that kind of result. Also, when he tries to kick for the corner, he changes his motion. Think of it like a golf shot. Same = good, different usually = bad. 457427[/snapback] What you are talking about is a matter of execution - ie., the punter poorly executing that kick. My opinion is that punting is these guys jobs - the only thing they do. They should be able to practice and master different types of kicks. There probably is a cause/effect that if going for the corner is a lost art, it is not taught/practiced so therefore it is not a strong point for many punters today. My answer to that? - friggin practice it!. The basic argument still remains - if you kick to the sideline you have so much a better shot at getting it to go out of bounds or being covered inside the 20 than hanging it up a mile down the middle of the field and being dependent on 1) a completely uncontrollable bounce and 2) unbelievable plays by guys running full speed towards the end zone. Even if the kicker shanks the corner kick from midfield he still will probably not do too much worse than the 20 which is where the almost inevitable touchback will occur from kicking it a mile high to the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 The pressure is getting to him. He knows the only way the Bills will get the field position advantage is if he kicks the long ones since the O & D aren't doing their share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSJayDee Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 1) I don't see how aiming a kick out of bounds increases the risk for a long return I don't think it does (assuming that he kicks it w/ normal hang time). What I think it does do, is cause more dispersion as to where the ball ends up. W/ a pooch, you're pretty assured that it'll end up betwwen the 20 & the goal line (usually inside the 15). As I haven't seen many coffin corner punts in a long time (& as I mentioned elsewhere, I seem to recall them mostly being softer kicks 'back in the day') but I do know it's difficult to be consistently more accurate than 10 yards. Depending on at what yardage marker you aim, determine your anticipated dispersion from there. I WANT to remove the onus from coverage guys from having to make a spectacular play As I mentioned, I don't whole-heartedly agree w/ the philosophy either. If you've got an accurate punter, why not take advantage of it, at least occasionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Is it just me or is he having a REAL bad year so far? 457237[/snapback] If inconsistent = bad, yes! Moorman is like a box of chocolates.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Just for old-timer's sake, Paul Maguire was an absolute MASTER at the coffin-corner kick. The best I ever have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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