BenchBledsoe Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Just want to get the boards opinions. . . what if Holcomb clearly out plays JP in the preseason and seems to spark the team, while they're lackluster with JP in there. (Think Flutie vs Rob Johnson type of change. . . in terms of team spunk only.) 1)Who would be in favor of starting Holcomb on opening day? 2)If not opening day, then how long would you give JP to turn it around before annointing Holcomb the starter? 3)Is this your worst nightmare scenario? Personally, I think Holcomb is much better coming off the bench and being a short-term (2-3 games) starter than "the guy" His track record in Cleveland showed that. I also wouldn't pull the plug very easily or early with JP. He'll likely struggle mightily at times, but hey, we saw that from the QB position last year, so it'll be nothing new! Notice that Cincy did not have a short leash with Carson Palmer last year, despite having Kitna waiting in the wings. Yanking a guy too early/often can rattle him . . . sometimes for the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 It would be with the second stringers because JP will be playing with the first team and no one would care. JP is starting, unless he gets hurt. I very much doubt that MM will bench JP over the course of the entire season unless there is a major losing streak attributable to his poor play. Holcomb could play, but I very much doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 i do not think it will matter . JP is the one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Holcomb will be the most important guy on the bills this year. JP is going to stumble like all rookies do and Holcomb is going to be the guy for a significant part of the season. Whether it happens in pre season or not who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Real Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Holcomb will be the most important guy on the bills this year. JP is going to stumble like all rookies do and Holcomb is going to be the guy for a significant part of the season. Whether it happens in pre season or not who knows. 393957[/snapback] That's yet to be seen. J.P may like to run but his durability hasn't truly been tested yet. Is the broken leg a sign of things to come or a freak accident? Who knows, but for me, I'm praying it's a one time thing. Management has told this kid a thousand times to get out of bounds or slide. I think that coupled with last year's injury will be more than enough to motivate our qb to stay away from dangerous situations. I think for KH to outplay J.P he'd have to seriously throw 30 touchdowns while Losman threw 20 interceptions and fumble 11 times. In my opinion, Holcomb will play well and we will all really appreciate him. However, we all know this J.P's team for better or worse this year. Only way Holcomb starts is if Losman suffers an injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Holcomb better outplay JP, because as stated above Holcomb will not be playing against the other team's starters. This bodes well for the preseason w-l record since we have a better 2nd sting QB than the other teams-that usually translates into exhibition wins. A few other thoughts: All you people calling JP a rookie who will struggle are being moronic, unless you believe he's a bust. The idea that 1st year starting QBs struggle makes no sense and is disputed by the facts. Here's a list of some NFL starting QBs who started in their 2nd season after seeing limited action their 1st year: Tom Brady-Won the Super Bowl as a 1st year starter-his 2nd season in the NFL after riding the bench in his 1st Kurt Warner-won the Super Bowl as a 1st year starter-his 2nd season in the NFL after riding the bench in his 1st (and don't throw in the NFLE & arena crap) Daunte Culpepper-led his team to the NFL championship game as a 1st year starter-his 2nd season in the NFL after riding the bench in his 1st Michael Vick-Led his team to a Wild Card spot & beat GB in GB in the 1st round afyer starting only 2 games as a rookie Aaron Brooks-After Jeff Blake's injury, started the final 5 games, leading NO to a division championship & a playoff win before losing to fellow sophomore Culpepper. Rode the bench his 1st year in GB. There also Donnovan McNabb, who started 6 games as a rookie & led his team in his 2nd year to a wild card & 1st round win. Kerry Collins who started 13 games in his rookie year, performed well for a 1st year expansion team & had his team in the NFC championship game in his 2nd. Ben Roethlisberger who led his team to the NFL's best record before losing the AFC championship to NE in his pure rookie year. Byron Leftwich, who started 13 games his rookie year after missing a lot of camp with a holdout without a lot of struggling. Even Shaun King was able to win playoff games in his pure rookie season before falling to St Louis and 1st year starter Warner in the NFC championship game Drew Bledsoe may have struggled a bit as a rookie starter, but most of his career has been spent underachieving. Rex Grossman looked good as a pure rookie when given starts late in the year & got hurt his 2nd year & the jury is still out on his career. Carson Palmer may have struggled a bit before coming on in the 2nd half before his injury, but he is the exception, not the rule. About the only other players I found who did struggle were the Manning boys, both on lousy teams. Peyton led the turmaround to a division title in year 2. Kyle Boller -who has and will always struggle until he's bounced out of the league-ditto Joey Harrington & Patrick Ramsey. David Carr has played about the same, so it's hard to say what the problem is other than his supporting cast. So if you think JP is going to be a quality or better NFL starter, don't expect him to struggle-the struggling 1st year starters on decent teams are few and far between. If they stuggle as 1st year starting sophomores, they usually are busts or marginal players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstealer Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 i do not think it will matter . JP is the one 393955[/snapback] During mini-camp Holcomb expressed how lossed he was in the new playbook. J.P.'s had far more time to digest the offense. KH will not outplay J.P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Well, it would mean we've got a whale of a backup Quarterback, now wouldn't it? Holcomb should clearly have the edge over JP at the start of training camp - in matters of poise in the pocket, making reads and checkoffs. But, as others have said, he'll be primarily working with the second unit. Frankly, I hope he tears it up and has a fabulous preseason. Won't that make everyone breathe a little easier if JohnPaul III goes out for a series with a torn fingernail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corp000085 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Just want to get the boards opinions. . . what if Holcomb clearly out plays JP in the preseason and seems to spark the team, while they're lackluster with JP in there. (Think Flutie vs Rob Johnson type of change. . . in terms of team spunk only.) 1)Who would be in favor of starting Holcomb on opening day? 2)If not opening day, then how long would you give JP to turn it around before annointing Holcomb the starter? 3)Is this your worst nightmare scenario? Personally, I think Holcomb is much better coming off the bench and being a short-term (2-3 games) starter than "the guy" His track record in Cleveland showed that. I also wouldn't pull the plug very easily or early with JP. He'll likely struggle mightily at times, but hey, we saw that from the QB position last year, so it'll be nothing new! Notice that Cincy did not have a short leash with Carson Palmer last year, despite having Kitna waiting in the wings. Yanking a guy too early/often can rattle him . . . sometimes for the long term. 393951[/snapback] i guess you'll have to re register as benchlosman Holcomb better outplay JP, because as stated above Holcomb will not be playing against the other team's starters. This bodes well for the preseason w-l record since we have a better 2nd sting QB than the other teams-that usually translates into exhibition wins.A few other thoughts: All you people calling JP a rookie who will struggle are being moronic, unless you believe he's a bust. The idea that 1st year starting QBs struggle makes no sense and is disputed by the facts. Here's a list of some NFL starting QBs who started in their 2nd season after seeing limited action their 1st year: Tom Brady-Won the Super Bowl as a 1st year starter-his 2nd season in the NFL after riding the bench in his 1st Kurt Warner-won the Super Bowl as a 1st year starter-his 2nd season in the NFL after riding the bench in his 1st (and don't throw in the NFLE & arena crap) Daunte Culpepper-led his team to the NFL championship game as a 1st year starter-his 2nd season in the NFL after riding the bench in his 1st Michael Vick-Led his team to a Wild Card spot & beat GB in GB in the 1st round afyer starting only 2 games as a rookie Aaron Brooks-After Jeff Blake's injury, started the final 5 games, leading NO to a division championship & a playoff win before losing to fellow sophomore Culpepper. Rode the bench his 1st year in GB. There also Donnovan McNabb, who started 6 games as a rookie & led his team in his 2nd year to a wild card & 1st round win. Kerry Collins who started 13 games in his rookie year, performed well for a 1st year expansion team & had his team in the NFC championship game in his 2nd. Ben Roethlisberger who led his team to the NFL's best record before losing the AFC championship to NE in his pure rookie year. Byron Leftwich, who started 13 games his rookie year after missing a lot of camp with a holdout without a lot of struggling. Even Shaun King was able to win playoff games in his pure rookie season before falling to St Louis and 1st year starter Warner in the NFC championship game Drew Bledsoe may have struggled a bit as a rookie starter, but most of his career has been spent underachieving. Rex Grossman looked good as a pure rookie when given starts late in the year & got hurt his 2nd year & the jury is still out on his career. Carson Palmer may have struggled a bit before coming on in the 2nd half before his injury, but he is the exception, not the rule. About the only other players I found who did struggle were the Manning boys, both on lousy teams. Peyton led the turmaround to a division title in year 2. Kyle Boller -who has and will always struggle until he's bounced out of the league-ditto Joey Harrington & Patrick Ramsey. David Carr has played about the same, so it's hard to say what the problem is other than his supporting cast. So if you think JP is going to be a quality or better NFL starter, don't expect him to struggle-the struggling 1st year starters on decent teams are few and far between. If they stuggle as 1st year starting sophomores, they usually are busts or marginal players. 393986[/snapback] as much as i would hate to acknowledge this guy, dan marino might mention going to the super bowl in his year 2 during his hall of fame speech next weekend. I just think the entire argument that jp can't succeed in his first year as a starter, or in year two, simply because 99% of the qbs from the 1920's-1980's haven't done so is ridiculous. That's a long list of guys who have recently succeeded. my only way to cope with people who say that jp will make the bills undefeated or will make the bills suck is to respond with a wait and see attitude. we'll all know in a few months if jp is the real deal, has potential, or is ryan leaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Look here, specifically at post #31: http://boards.buffalobills.com/forums/inde...showtopic=64010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Just want to get the boards opinions. . . what if Holcomb clearly out plays JP in the preseason and seems to spark the team, while they're lackluster with JP in there. (Think Flutie vs Rob Johnson type of change. . . in terms of team spunk only.) 1)Who would be in favor of starting Holcomb on opening day? 2)If not opening day, then how long would you give JP to turn it around before annointing Holcomb the starter? 3)Is this your worst nightmare scenario? Personally, I think Holcomb is much better coming off the bench and being a short-term (2-3 games) starter than "the guy" His track record in Cleveland showed that. I also wouldn't pull the plug very easily or early with JP. He'll likely struggle mightily at times, but hey, we saw that from the QB position last year, so it'll be nothing new! Notice that Cincy did not have a short leash with Carson Palmer last year, despite having Kitna waiting in the wings. Yanking a guy too early/often can rattle him . . . sometimes for the long term. 393951[/snapback] How is that a bad thing? We need the best QB out there who can lead this team to victories. Ask yourself this: what if JP outplayed Drew last summer? Who would you want to start then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachChuckDickerson Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 If anybody here thinks Holcomb came here for less money than he would have gotten elsewhere in hopes of riding the bench, they are nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTS Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 My friends and I had this conversation last night in the bar and we concluded the following: a. Holcomb is the best chance for the Bills to win and make the playoffs this season. b. JP scares us, mostly because his abilities are unknown to us. c. JP will have to get hurt or go 2-6 before we see Holcomb. d. JP is TD's guy, and he will die with him before he admits he made a mistake. That being said, I hope we're all wrong. I want JP to kick ass, I'm just afraid that won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 d. JP is TD's guy, and he will die with him before he admits he made a mistake. 394509[/snapback] Nonsense. TD has changed gears many times; he is willing to shift gears if current gear does not work. Bledsoe was signed at the cost of a draft pick and extended but her was let go. GW was hired, offered an 1 year extension and was let go. Plenty of other examples. TD plays the cards he has and has no problem dropping the possible flush when he gets a possible ful house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Gant Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 It won't matter. JP is expected to have a few clunkers this year. Even if Holcolm outplays JP for a limited time, JP has the better upside and will be more difficult for Defenses to gameplan for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Ask yourself this: what if JP outplayed Drew last summer? 394240[/snapback] He did didn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachChuckDickerson Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 d. JP is TD's guy, and he will die with him before he admits he made a mistake. 394509[/snapback] TD signed Holcomb away from a starting job in Cleveland. So whose guy is Holcomb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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