Bob Lamb Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 For years in Erie County everytime there was budget crisis (this one ain't the first) one of the first things always threatened are the libraries. I guess this partly due to the fact that their funding is non-mandated and a "hot button" topic for some folk, So here's the topic again: http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050722/1051943.asp I have heard the same discussions in San Diego (the city proper) which is suffering its' own budget meltdown. I have heard talk show hosts describe how libraries are useless in today's age - and I'm surprised how many callers agree. I grew up in a age where the corner library was everything. I swear I read every book (of interest) at my library (Lake Ave. & Latta Road) in Charlotte before age 12. I still go every couple of weeks to my local branch here - and spend a couple of hours just to browse the racks and pick a book off the shelf that looks interesting. Also, when I have a project/paper to finish - I go there and pull up a table because there will be limited distractions. Now, there are many people there but on weekends the longest lines are for the PC's. People who don't own a PC can't go anywhere else for free. The only thing I can disagree with is when did the public libraries go into the movie business ? Why should they spend money on videos/DVD's when that is a function of Blockbuster (choke) et al ? That would be more money for actual books. Remember, public libraries were relatively rare except for large metropolitan areas prior to the 1930's. Pay libraries - so many cents per day - for a book were up and running. So, do you still use your public library ? And what did you do with your 20 volume set of Encyclopedia Britanica ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Saying that the library has encroached on Blockbuster is like saying that the library has also encroached on Waldenbooks. Libraries have always had videos, records and books on tape. The bigger problem in Erie county is that we have 52 libraries. At least 20 are small and outdated but they still serve their communities. It's inevitable that the number of branches will have to shrink and there will be people who won't be able to frequent the library that frequently. I go to my local library with my kids at least once a week to borrow books, dvd's, and cd's. For many people, the library is the only place that they have to use a computer or access the internet. Our branch (Hamburg) has about 8 computers that seem to be in use every time that I go there. As far as dvd's, each branch might have 1 copy of most of the popular new releases that come out. I have a larger personal dvd collection than the Hamburg library, so I don't think that dvd's are bankrupting them. One big area of savings would be to have volunteers do most of the work in the branches. This is how it was in Sarasota, FL where I used to live. The Erie County libraries are staffed with paid workers who have union contracts with medical and pension benefits. The library needs some paid employees, but I'm sure that a lot of the work could be done by volunteer labor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerjamhead Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Up here in San Jose they just finished building a new one across the street from Jame Lick High School (of Jim Plunkett fame). They tore down a Liquor store and a boxing studio to make room for it and I was amazed by it when I passed by the other day. Cruz Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 I go. There are two branches close by, and you can consult the catalog and they will ship the book of interest to your local branch and hold it. It's one of the largest libraries in the nation. http://www.cincinnatilibrary.org/info/ And in Butler County, just north of me is the Lane Library: http://www.lanepl.org/ Books, books, books! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Monday night is library night. I usually pick up a few movies and music CDs. The library has hundreds of video and audio selections, a few PC games, as well as dozens of magazines and <gosh> an awful lot of books. I read only about a book a month but that is because my eyes are tired from being on the computer so much. I do not watch much programmed tv, and do not like to rent or buy movies. I use CDs as a music sampler prior to buying music, and a way to experience music I never thought I would like. A good example would be Duke Elegant - a selection of Duke Ellington music by Dr. John. A very delightful surprise. As you enter, there are always books for sale. I always browse the shelves for bargains, and occasionally find a gem. The PCs are always in use, there are lots of kids and parents there. I search on line from home and reserve movies and books held by other branches, to be sent to my library for pickup. I can't drive there to get them for the 50 cent reserve fee. I have seen smart parents let their kids pick a video AND encourage them to read - sometimes they read the same book as the movie. I LOVE the fact that they have videos. So we disagree. ANY excuse to get a kid near a book or magazine and read is a good excuse. Sometimes I will take a half day vacation and get lost in the monster downtown library. It's like Barnes and Nobles without the Starbucks. I can get lost in the "stacks". I have found and made copies of old news articles from micrfiche when I was doing research on college papers (I went to night school as an adult with kids) as well as a copy of the NFL Charter for the Rochester Jeffersons. I have not heard of budget problems in Rochester, but I do not follow news much anyway. I gave my Encyclopedia Britannica and the annual updates to my cousin abiout 35 years ago. Anyone who says libraries are "useless in today's age" is a true idiot. For years in Erie County everytime there was budget crisis (this one ain't the first) one of the first things always threatened are the libraries. I guess this partly due to the fact that their funding is non-mandated and a "hot button" topic for some folk, So here's the topic again: http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050722/1051943.asp I have heard the same discussions in San Diego (the city proper) which is suffering its' own budget meltdown. I have heard talk show hosts describe how libraries are useless in today's age - and I'm surprised how many callers agree. I grew up in a age where the corner library was everything. I swear I read every book (of interest) at my library (Lake Ave. & Latta Road) in Charlotte before age 12. I still go every couple of weeks to my local branch here - and spend a couple of hours just to browse the racks and pick a book off the shelf that looks interesting. Also, when I have a project/paper to finish - I go there and pull up a table because there will be limited distractions. Now, there are many people there but on weekends the longest lines are for the PC's. People who don't own a PC can't go anywhere else for free. The only thing I can disagree with is when did the public libraries go into the movie business ? Why should they spend money on videos/DVD's when that is a function of Blockbuster (choke) et al ? That would be more money for actual books. Remember, public libraries were relatively rare except for large metropolitan areas prior to the 1930's. Pay libraries - so many cents per day - for a book were up and running. So, do you still use your public library ? And what did you do with your 20 volume set of Encyclopedia Britanica ? 388180[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Tate Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 I lived too far out of town in CA to frequent the library very often, maybe once every couple weeks or so. The one in my town there was pretty substandard. I live in the capital of the county here in FL, and library downtown is pretty sweet. I've been going there to study - kids are out of school, so home is not a quiet place. Speaking of a quiet place - please, if no one has every mentioned it to you, taking cell phone calls in a library is just rude. Put your phone on vibrate (there's a reason it's called "manner" mode) - if it's an important call, answer it in your "library" voice and step outside. And just turn that nextel BEEPing thing right the hell off. Curmudgeon note: it's not just the younger generation, I've seen a couple middle-aged people do this too. Just un-freaking believable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Tate Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 One big area of savings would be to have volunteers do most of the work in the branches. This is how it was in Sarasota, FL where I used to live. The Erie County libraries are staffed with paid workers who have union contracts with medical and pension benefits. The library needs some paid employees, but I'm sure that a lot of the work could be done by volunteer labor. I don't know how much they use them, but my mom has been a volunteer for an Erie County library for years, so they do have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 What should really happen, is that all libraries be given to local Universities and Colleges. The Universities and Colleges could stock them full of books that matter to studying at that school, and the general public would still benefit from these libraries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 What should really happen, is that all libraries be given to local Universities and Colleges. The Universities and Colleges could stock them full of books that matter to studying at that school, and the general public would still benefit from these libraries. 388669[/snapback] If the colleges owned the (formerly public) libraries, what would be their motivation to benefit the general public, altruism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 I go all the time to libraries, and they seem pretty crowded, as much as always. At least the 3-4 different ones I go to. You should always take your kids to libraries. It's a fundamental learning experience, like learning how to do math long hand first before you're allowed to use a calculator. Just so you know how it is actually, and meant to be, done. Some libraries also charge for DVDs, like the one in Pasadena here, which is a very nice library, charges $1.75 a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 I go all the time to libraries, and they seem pretty crowded, as much as always. At least the 3-4 different ones I go to. You should always take your kids to libraries. It's a fundamental learning experience, like learning how to do math long hand first before you're allowed to use a calculator. Just so you know how it is actually, and meant to be, done. Some libraries also charge for DVDs, like the one in Pasadena here, which is a very nice library, charges $1.75 a week. 388734[/snapback] Are you counting the ones who sleep there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 My wife is a voracious reader and as great as I think that is, I got tired of spending $20 on a book that she'd finish in two days before passing it to the neighbor. My sister-law-in suggested to wifey that she try the library, and as it turns out it has been a tremendous blessing. She can go online, reserve the titles she wants, and then gets a call from the library when that book is ready. She can go online when the book is due and extend the due date, if that book is eligible for it. In the process of all of this, she noticed a children's storytelling time that she signed up for, and every Wednesday she takes our 7 month old to the library. They sit around with kids from six months up to two years and a person reads stories, leads them in interactive songs, etc. I went one day with him and there were about 25 children and their parents in there, and there were about 100 people milling around the library itself. The class helps him learn to be around other children as well as adults, and he gets excited every time he goes into the reading room because he knows it's a fun place to be. None of it cost one cent. Libraries are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 My wife is a voracious reader and as great as I think that is, I got tired of spending $20 on a book that she'd finish in two days before passing it to the neighbor. My sister-law-in suggested to wifey that she try the library, and as it turns out it has been a tremendous blessing. She can go online, reserve the titles she wants, and then gets a call from the library when that book is ready. She can go online when the book is due and extend the due date, if that book is eligible for it. In the process of all of this, she noticed a children's storytelling time that she signed up for, and every Wednesday she takes our 7 month old to the library. They sit around with kids from six months up to two years and a person reads stories, leads them in interactive songs, etc. I went one day with him and there were about 25 children and their parents in there, and there were about 100 people milling around the library itself. The class helps him learn to be around other children as well as adults, and he gets excited every time he goes into the reading room because he knows it's a fun place to be. None of it cost one cent. Libraries are cool. 388802[/snapback] FWIW, Libraries ARE cool. Used to be one of my favorite places. Great place to meet sexy women who wear glasses. What I have seen in my past, though, is they can become a gathering place for misplaced teens with an agenda. They aren't going to the library, they meet there. Tell momma "I got to go to the library" Momma says "See ya" And when the shooting takes place, Momma says he was doing his homework, he's a good boy. Great cover. I've seen some serious controversy happen, because of that. Over a library? Libraries are good things. But, if it isn't under guard in a predominantly white middle class neighborhood it becomes a city liability. Cities don't like paying money out for Tracy or Tony to get capped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tux of Borg Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 FWIW, Libraries ARE cool. Used to be one of my favorite places. Great place to meet sexy women who wear glasses. 388835[/snapback] You are a dirty old man... I use libraries to research papers for college. It's convenient to have there but I could make do if it was closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manateefan Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 As a kid in Kenmore, my sister would take me to the local library often. To this day, I'm an insatiable reader. I average about three books a week. That could get to be very expensive if not for the public library. I can reserve them over the internet (which I do) and they let me know when they are in. I usually go on my lunch hour as the branch is only a couple blocks away from work. The only drawback is that sometimes you're on a list for a few months before getting a book, but in the long run it is worth it to be patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 I you want the word of a library director... I will patch this through to my wife. She is the director of the Park Forest Public Library (also serving Olympia Fields)... I am sure she will give you an earful! PFPL And GhofBib, how do you think I met my wife? We were working on a TOLIS grant with the BECPL downtown when I met her... The grant was to get books (history grant) that were stuck down in the stacks searched in OCLC and logged into the sysytem... It was amazing how much is behind the scenes, between floors of the main branch downtown... Almost everything! Some were very tricky to search and find library of congress/OCLC references! Damn military pamplets, standards, construction resources were extremely painful! And yes... We both wear glasses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 I you want the word of a library director... I will patch this through to my wife. She is the director of the Park Forest Public Library (also serving Olympia Fields)... I am sure she will give you an earful! PFPL And GhofBib, how do you think I met my wife? We were working on a TOLIS grant with the BECPL downtown when I met her... The grant was to get books (history grant) that were stuck down in the stacks searched in OCLC and logged into the sysytem... It was amazing how much is behind the scenes, between floors of the main branch downtown... Almost everything! Some were very tricky to search and find library of congress/OCLC references! Damn military pamplets, standards, construction resources were extremely painful! And yes... We both wear glasses! 390883[/snapback] Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Cool. 390902[/snapback] A lot has changed since she took over two years ago. The library was quickly "dying on the vine." I have always been a strong labor advocate... Her position has got me to see the administrative side. Up until she was hired, it was such a "sit and spin" mentality there. They were living the 50 year old legend... The collection was abysmal with NO technology at all! Trying not to toot her horn too much, she brought a lot of fresh air when the library board hired her. Erie county has to look hard at what they are doing. Too bad that most of the shakers and movers with a backbone have left the area. That is part of the problem. Do I feel remorse? A little. I have always said to her if she could fix the libraries problem's in a community of 25k that is going through the same identity crisis as Buffalo... Maybe she could import that plan to WNY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 We can download recorded books from our library, way cool. I have a 40 gb iPOD and will be able to make quite a dent in in. I love libraries. When I was poor and unemployed it was the best place to go, free books, company, and a feeling of purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Computers work the world... What do you do in a pinch when your computer craps out? It is good to have a standby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Computers work the world... What do you do in a pinch when your computer craps out? It is good to have a standby. 390965[/snapback] I was just reading through this, and wondered if schools still teach the card catalogue? I'll just make the assumption libraries still use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 I was just reading through this, and wondered if schools still teach the card catalogue? I'll just make the assumption libraries still use them. 391703[/snapback] Do you mean library schools, or grade schools? I assume you mean the latter. My wife is a children's librarian, she finished her master's at Pratt a couple years ago, and she had to take several cataloguing and classification classes. Still use Dewey decimal, all that. Her library still has the catalogs but they are definitely secondary to the computer systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Do you mean library schools, or grade schools? I assume you mean the latter. My wife is a children's librarian, she finished her master's at Pratt a couple years ago, and she had to take several cataloguing and classification classes. Still use Dewey decimal, all that. Her library still has the catalogs but they are definitely secondary to the computer systems. 391714[/snapback] I was referring to grade schools. Maybe middle. It's been a long time, but I remember learning that pretty early. Public School, Alden in the 60's. I'm glad to hear they still use Dewey as a back up, at least. It's important to be able to learn how to find things without a search window. Sadly, we know plenty of people who can't acomplish that much. Well, at least one anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I was just reading through this, and wondered if schools still teach the card catalogue? I'll just make the assumption libraries still use them. 391703[/snapback] "The Dewey decimal system. What a scam that was!" - One of my all-time favorite lines on Seinfeld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 I was just reading through this, and wondered if schools still teach the card catalogue? I'll just make the assumption libraries still use them. 391703[/snapback] No. Just as we don't use slide rules anymore... Maybe small independent libraries? Even they are probably with the times when they order books? Dewey is used here in Illinois... At least in the MLS (Metropolitan Library System) which are predominantly south suburban libraries. Very few here use Library of Congress like they do in Erie County... I don't even think I can name one library here that uses LoC? Cataloging is a thing of the past. When my wife took over the Steger-South Chicago Heights Public Library District back in 1998... They were already doing away with it. I mentioned how they raised money (NO TAX INCREASE ) to build a children's wing... Some of the money came from an auction of the card catalog cards that were signed by authors and famous people. When she took over the Park Forest library, the catalog had already become inactive and had been non-updated for about 3 years! It was a big behemoth just taking up valuable space... A useless, non-maintained dinosaur... She moved it to the basement... Only one patron came in to voice his opinion... An 80 something year old man, claiming "she ripped out his heart!" Cataloging can be outsourced. You can get the info. already printed up from suppliers... Learning how to catalog is even being phased out in MLS programs (She got her MLIS (Masters in Library and Information Science) at UofI and I think she didn't take a cataloging course!). It has gone the way of the slide rule. What would be the reason to go back to it? Valuable library resources can be freed up for other things that time-consuming, laborious catalog maintenance takes up. I take teaching kids how to use a paper card catalog is like still teaching them to use an interpolation table in trig? Why... It is all about priorities. I don't necessarily like what technology has done to our cognitive ability but, it has been happening since humans have been devising new technology. There are pros and cons but, nothiing stops the march of technology. Think how the prior rules and cognitive ability in navigation were thrown out the window when inventions like the compass, sextant and chronograpgh were invented? Did it make us worse sailors? Heck no... It made us more efficent sailors. I will stop now before I really begin to ramble... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 My experieince is that card catalogs are a thing of the past and you can forget about getting books returned or checked out, if the computer is down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 No. Just as we don't use slide rules anymore... 393010[/snapback] Maybe you don't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Think how the prior rules and cognitive ability in navigation were thrown out the window when inventions like the compass, sextant and chronograpgh were invented? Did it make us worse sailors? Heck no... It made us more efficent sailors. 393010[/snapback] Actually these skills are still taught at the Academy and one is required to pass them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Maybe you don't... 393106[/snapback] I suppose you use yours to be sure the kid at the McDonalds cash register hit the right pictures on the keypad. Ding! Gotta go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Actually these skills are still taught at the Academy and one is required to pass them. 393111[/snapback] I was thinking that VA. After you pass them, I guess you just don't practice them and sharpen them? (oops... There it is again. : ) Just as in cataloging... Even know you might not need it, people like my wife know the cataloging rules... She doesn't use them everyday and practice all the subtle nuances when compiling them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 My experieince is that card catalogs are a thing of the past and you can forget about getting books returned or checked out, if the computer is down. 393039[/snapback] Back-up system... Then if that is down (very seldom): You can still return them and get credit for checking them out... They will update your records at a later time when the computer gets. Same thing for checking out... This means they write it on paper and you go about your business. When you need to find a book and the search is down... Either get a staff member to find it or search the stacks. The staff member or librarian is the quickest. Same can be said for when the online card catalog is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Sorry for the start-and-stop posts... I was putting boaters first. That being said, are libraries putting patrons first? Or is it a "sit and spin" mentality where the librarian just sits there and points to where things are? Just as in my job, every lockage is recorded to an oracle database. We record everything from tonnage, number of passengers, to ever single stage time in the lockage. The average commercial lockage requires 6 separate times. Entrance and exit is also recorded. Years ago, this was all done on paper. Now it is done live and processed automatically. This data can be used by congress to determine appropriations. That being said, when our oracle database goes down, things can be saved locally on the HD and updated to the main database at a later time. We still have to do it semi-manually... I take it could run automatically where you would never even know the syaytem is down? On that note, I would take that libraries would have back-up too. Most libraries are members of large consortia, so when the systems go down... They don't go down for long. Again... BECPL has to take a long hard look at where they are at and where they want to go. Taxpayers and patrons must come first. That doesn't mean throwing money at the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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