Highly recommend all true patriots watch Ken Burns American Revolution documentary

[Trump_is_Mentally_fit]

Calvinism was in its own way “democratic” in the idea that all believers had a personal relationship with God that no worldly institution should interfere with. 
 

Sorry, this topic got me thinking…

[The Frankish Reich]

All of these various influences (Calvinism, the Iroquois confederation, etc, etc) can be found in the thinking of the founding fathers. Everyone sees a little of what they want to see. Liberal bleeding hearts see respect for native American governance; religious righties see hardcore protestantism.

 

But the one giant who towers above all others combined? Montesquieu.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montesquieu

[Andy1]

35 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

All of these various influences (Calvinism, the Iroquois confederation, etc, etc) can be found in the thinking of the founding fathers. Everyone sees a little of what they want to see. Liberal bleeding hearts see respect for native American governance; religious righties see hardcore protestantism.

 

But the one giant who towers above all others combined? Montesquieu.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montesquieu

Agree on part 1. 
 

Part 2, Montesquieu - Interesting, and someone I never knew of. This is the rare thread on PPP where I’m actually learning something. 

[Coffeesforclosers]

51 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

All of these various influences (Calvinism, the Iroquois confederation, etc, etc) can be found in the thinking of the founding fathers. Everyone sees a little of what they want to see. Liberal bleeding hearts see respect for native American governance; religious righties see hardcore protestantism.

 

But the one giant who towers above all others combined? Montesquieu.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montesquieu

 

May as well throw in Rousseau and see what comes out!

 

I put Trumpy's thoughts on Calvinism and its influence on the Revolution into ChatGpt. It laid out about a dozen different historians from four or five different schools of thought on the subject, and their books.

 

Best use of Chatgpt I've ever come across 

[Kelly to Allen]

3 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Are you sure about Calvin's influence specifically?  I'm curious, since the 13 Colonies were a haven for Protestant non- conformers and Calvinists weren't really known for their pluralism (but then again, no one really was at the time).

 

What parts did they like?

 

 

 

 

"Calvinism"you're correct. Which is more specifically a doctrine of no free will or predestination in layman's terms within Christianity 

 

But Calvin was a pivotal part of the reformation that questioned the churches authority, along with martin Luther which in turn created the fertile ground for not necessarily establishing one church authority in the new colonial world and their discussions about a new government etc

 

They were a core reason for not having an establishment of religion in the Constitution etc

 

 

It's obviously way more nuanced than this but this is like 1 % of the cliff notes

 

But the larger report remains. The Iroquois had literally nothing to do with any of this. 

 

There was temporary alliances and or treaties etc. 

Edited 17 hours ago by Kelly to Allen

[Coffeesforclosers]

22 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

"Calvinism"you're correct. Which is more specifically a doctrine of no free will or predestination in layman's terms within Christianity 

 

But Calvin was a pivotal part of the reformation that questioned the churches authority, along with martin Luther which in turn created the fertile ground for not necessarily establishing one church authority in the new colonial world and their discussions about a new government etc

 

They were a core reason for not having an establishment of religion in the Constitution etc

 

 

It's obviously way more nuanced than this but this is like 1 % of the cliff notes

 

But the larger report remains. The Iroquois had literally nothing to do with any of this. 

 

There was temporary alliances and or treaties etc. 

 

Thanks!

 

The only historical interpretations of America I tend to dismiss out of hand are the Progressive ones. Charles Beard and his "Everything boils down to economics" pap is the definition of reduction to absurdity.

[Tenhigh]

 

On 11/24/2025 at 9:57 AM, Joe Ferguson forever said:

I’m not telling anyone to touch grass. I also posted under Redtail hawk for years. I suspect those posts are included. 

So 10k posts in 3 years vs 22k posts in 23 years?  Remember when I was trying to explain to you that you weren't winning all of those arguments that you thought you were?  I was talking about this, this right here.

 

As for the Burns doc, it's a bit of a slog for me so far. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

25 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

 

So 10k posts in 3 years vs 22k posts in 23 years?  Remember when I was trying to explain to you that you weren't winning all of those arguments that you thought you were?  I was talking about this, this right here.

 

As for the Burns doc, it's a bit of a slog for me so far. 

Dude I’m touching sand. At the beach. And my family is cooking dinner tomorrow. Happy Thanksgiving. I feel like a winner 

[JDHillFan]

1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Dude I’m touching sand. At the beach. And my family is cooking dinner tomorrow. Happy Thanksgiving. I feel like a winner 

Says the guy with 10k posts in 3 years. 

[Trump_is_Mentally_fit]

11 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

"Calvinism"you're correct. Which is more specifically a doctrine of no free will or predestination in layman's terms within Christianity 

 

But Calvin was a pivotal part of the reformation that questioned the churches authority, along with martin Luther which in turn created the fertile ground for not necessarily establishing one church authority in the new colonial world and their discussions about a new government etc

 

They were a core reason for not having an establishment of religion in the Constitution etc

 

 

It's obviously way more nuanced than this but this is like 1 % of the cliff notes

 

But the larger report remains. The Iroquois had literally nothing to do with any of this. 

 

There was temporary alliances and or treaties etc. 

This is a great topic!

 

Why was the king in charge? Because God made him king! Same with the pope in the Reformation. Seems to me like a pretty direct historical connection. 

 

The Reformation started a long conversation about the meaning of God and society and the individual. Of course that boiled over into the secular realm. People listened to their preachers, analyzed their sermons and talked about them, they were like the opinion columns of the day. Many people did get kicked out of colonial New England for pushing their ideas too far, like Anne Hutchinson. 

 

Not so long ago the English Civil War(s) were called the Puritan Revolution. Of course, that war was fought to restrain a monarch seen as out of control and very much played a role in creating a direct historial narrative our founding fathers followed. 

 

If anyone has ever read about the history of Quakerism its hard to not also note the deep historical connections to our revolution. 

 

 

[Trump_is_Mentally_fit]

Oh, one other thing. 

 

Those Puritans came across the ocean and one of the very first things they did was create Harvard University. It was initially there to train ministers but the fact they opened an educational institution says a lot. The Puritans get tarred with the brush of narrow mindedness but they did so much to expand the idea of eduaction, thought and higher discourse. 

[Coffeesforclosers]

I've got to read more on the English Civil War's effect on the founders.  If for no other reason than what began as a war to establish the relative power of King and Parliament, ended with 12sh years of puritan military dictatorship.

[Tenhigh]

14 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Dude I’m touching sand. At the beach. And my family is cooking dinner tomorrow. Happy Thanksgiving. I feel like a winner 

Perception is reality, doc.  You hang in there and enjoy yourself. 

[BillsFanNC]

12 hours ago, JDHillFan said:

Says the guy with 10k posts in 3 years. 

 

A significant portion of which came in LESS than a year (not YEARS as claimed) under its previous moniker.