Do we have to make a choice between effectively running the ball or getting more pass production?

[CincyBillsFan]

12 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

And that's why most college quarterbacks never adjust to the NFL game because it's a complete shotgun spread in college 

 

You can count on two hands the amount of teams that are playing pro style football under center consistently 

 

It's a massive learning curve to the NFL.. even when you went three or four wide 25 years ago in the NFL a lot of teams were doing it under center not shotgun

 

I can't believe a 7th grade team is going heavy shotgun? Are they throwing the ball consistently or just read options 

I'm very confident that the best college QB's are having a much easier time adjusting to the NFL then their predecessors ever did.  I've watched NFL football for 60 years and can't think of a time with more high quality young QB's. Hell, every year guys from college show up and tear the league a new one. IMO we are seeing the best and most productive QBing in the history of the NFL and it has a lot to do with the high quality training these guys are getting in youth & college football.

 

Down here in Cincinnati the youth & high school football is very advanced.  My grandson is a WR and his team mostly was in 3 & 4 wide out sets.  They all had to look to the sideline to see what hand signals the offensive coordinator (yes they had an offensive coordinator in 7th grade) was using to call the play.  They routinely moved back and forth from spread to tight formations based on the call.  They employed motion on a 3rd of their plays.  They played 11 games inducing 2 playoff games and 10 of those teams were heavy shotgun users.

 

 

[AKC]

10 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Nearly identical to last year when he had a passer rating of 110.1 from shotgun and 83.6 under center.    However, with play action he had a 108.4 passer rating.  

 

MORE PLAY 

That probably indicates we run play action as often out of shotgun as we do under center. The big question is how much is our run game diminished when it starts from shotgun? Cook shows statistical improvement of over a yard per carry under center. Josh is a better passer from shotgun. Its complicated for the coaches gameplanning because the prevailing wisdom has to be to do everything to maximize your best weapon and play to the MVPs strength. At the same time that may not be the most important strength on a game to game basis if you feel forcing another team to submit to our running game is the better strategy?

 

[Jimmy Harris 69]

11 hours ago, vincec said:

If you think the Bills are going to build a pass first offense around Josh Allen then you weren’t watching what happened when Daboll and Dorsey were here. This offense is one big, physical #1 WR away from being exactly what McDermott wants.

I agree, they have moved away from pass first. Their passing offense still needs to be effective. Unless this ground chuck method wins a SB, it could be Sean’s undoing. The best qb in football won’t stick around or back this coach while his talent is wasted. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

11 hours ago, vincec said:

If you think the Bills are going to build a pass first offense around Josh Allen then you weren’t watching what happened when Daboll and Dorsey were here. This offense is one big, physical #1 WR away from being exactly what McDermott wants.

It's crazy isn't it? All Beane needed to do was get this correct. He should've doubled up on it and one would have panned out-instead he bet on Coleman. Brutal

[T master]

Both will be needed in some way to win a championship finding the correct mix between the 2 will be the problem goin forward .

[JP51]

We do not... they should be complimentary... if they are keeping you on the field and not punting you are getting more plays.. they should be able to co exist... that said... I would love to not have to pass 40-50 times a game... if you can knock this down to 30 that would be great. 

[NewEra]

The best player in the world needs to work on his passing from under center

[Mat68]

No, you make the defense decide.  I think a few schemed open passes early can settle Allen into the game.  Take advantage where you can.  The outside zone toss was 🤌.  Allen will have his fair share of big games too.  

[Simon]

On 10/28/2025 at 3:29 PM, AKC said:

Listening to Josh post Panthers seems to reinforce what it looks like on the field- Josh prefers to pass from shotgun but our running O is better under center. Josh talked about his drops from under center and his lack of trust of his feet being the major problem for him Sunday. Statistically in 25 Josh has a PR of 109.7 from shotgun and that drops to 89.3 under center. On the other hand James Cook is gaining over 5 YPC under center while dropping below 4 from shotgun. Curiously EPA stats suggest in the Panthers game the opposite was true- they have us more effective running from shotgun and more effective passing from under center. I have to presume the successful pitches from shotgun with long gains skew that in favor of shotgun, while the season long stats tell the story differently. 

 

If they keep spreading people out and murdering them with that outside zone toss like they were last week, they can probably run all the shotgun they want the rest of the year. Allen's a good ball handler and you can freeze LB's enough with it that it should be almost as effective as traditional PA without Allen having to turn his back to the LOS. Feed Gilliam inside once in a while to keep people thinking instead of running, hit Kincaid up the seam once a half and you can create enough confusion to have the defense spinning like dreidels (a line I stole from you 20 years ago;-).

[Buffalo716]

7 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I'm very confident that the best college QB's are having a much easier time adjusting to the NFL then their predecessors ever did.  I've watched NFL football for 60 years and can't think of a time with more high quality young QB's. Hell, every year guys from college show up and tear the league a new one. IMO we are seeing the best and most productive QBing in the history of the NFL and it has a lot to do with the high quality training these guys are getting in youth & college football.

 

Down here in Cincinnati the youth & high school football is very advanced.  My grandson is a WR and his team mostly was in 3 & 4 wide out sets.  They all had to look to the sideline to see what hand signals the offensive coordinator (yes they had an offensive coordinator in 7th grade) was using to call the play.  They routinely moved back and forth from spread to tight formations based on the call.  They employed motion on a 3rd of their plays.  They played 11 games inducing 2 playoff games and 10 of those teams were heavy shotgun users.

 

 

 

The NFL is finally adapting to gimmicky college spreads which is making the transition easier .. but it doesn't always set them up for long term success 

 

Yet every single NFL running back will tell you they prefer to run under center.. and the change up of formations and ability to play both ways is still fundamental to football .. the best quarterbacks have to be able to play under center well even if it's only 30% of the time now

 

The bust rate at quarterback is still as high as it ever was.. 20 years ago you can draft 10 spread quarterbacks and maybe 1 succeeded 

 

Now if you draft 10 spread quarterbacks.. 4-5 might succeed.. which is the average bust rate of quarterback.. it took 25 years to reach that average bust level 

 

I mean I have an offensive coordinator in 7th grade too I understand schemes are getting more spread out... The difference is the NFL for a long time refused to play that style... As the game has softened which it has, and the rules started to favor the offense the adoption of the spread in the NFL became easier 

 

To the point where it is now a massive part of the game.. yet most quarterbacks getting drafted still do not succeed

 

We have three number one overall picks in Trevor Lawrence Kyler Murray and Caleb Williams..  all of them literally have insane talent but are all underperforming... 

 

Because it's a vastly different game from college to NFL... For every spread quarterback that hits like Patrick mahomes there's 4 that bust 

 

Texas HS football has been running spread option football for 35 years and it is just making its way to the NFL that's a long learning curve.. and a lot of quarterbacks failed along the way to get it to where it is now

 

And pure spread quarterbacks might have an easier transition if their team will run college schemes... But like Kyler Murray it's a long haul to learn three step drops and be a proficient pocket passer in an NFL scheme

 

Lamar Jackson another perfect example of a star getting to play in his gimmicky offense.. but the second he has to take three or five step drops from the pocket consistently he's not as effective...

 

The rise of the spread has also hurt the ability of pure pocket passing in the NFL

Edited 2 hours ago by Buffalo716