What's wrong with Josh?

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Oh I get it. You’re going to see more and more teams sell out to stop the run. Make Allen and the passing game beat them. That’s just a crazy notion with an elite qb. 
 

I think this will be KC’s gameplan this weekend. Similar to how they shut down Detroit’s high power offense. 

 

In a salary cap League where we haven't had a top 10 pick in 7-8 years to get some of that blue chip talent? 

 

On the flip side the eagles have had two top 10 picks in that span.. took devante Smith, and their beast defensive tackle.. then they had the 12th overall pick where they took their other beast defensive tackle 

 

The bills haven't even been in that spot for drafting in 8 years 

 

We don't have 90 million in the off-season to try to buy a number one wide receiver and we don't have the draft pick to draft them

 

Well before we even drafted Josh Allen on this board the consensus was Hall of Fame quarterbacks elevate the wide receivers around them.. they take good to great , great to world class.. average to good 

 

 yeah we need to give Josh better weapons but we're in a salary cap restraint and we hit on a star running back in the second round

Edited October 28 by Buffalo716

[90sBills]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

In a salary cap League where we haven't had a top 10 pick in 7-8 years to get some of that blue chip talent? 

 

On the flip side the eagles have had two top 10 picks in that span.. took devante Smith, and their beast defensive tackle.. then they had the 12th overall pick where they took their other beast defensive tackle 

 

The bills haven't even been in that spot for drafting in 8 years 

 

We don't have 90 million in the off-season to try to buy a number one wide receiver and we don't have the draft pick to draft them

 

Well before we even drafted Josh Allen on this board the consensus was Hall of Fame quarterbacks elevate the wide receivers around them.. they take good to great , great to world class.. average to good 

 

 yeah we need to give Josh better weapons but we're in a salary cap restraint and we hit on a star running back in the second round

That logic would hold more weight if it weren’t for the team coming in to OP this weekend. They draft later than the Bills and somehow managed to field some pretty good receivers. 
 

I don’t think it’s a salary cap or draft position issue. I think it’s a talent evaluation issue. They have brought guys in via drafts and free agency. They’ve just missed more than hit. 

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

That logic would hold more weight if it weren’t for the team coming in to OP this weekend. They draft later than the Bills and somehow managed to field some pretty good receivers. 
 

I don’t think it’s a salary cap or draft position issue. I think it’s a talent evaluation issue. They have brought guys in via drafts and free agency. They’ve just missed more than hit. 

I don't think their receivers are Head and shoulders better than ours 

 

Rice is the only one who is absolutely better than what we have... and they have a gimmicky play caller who puts these guys open in space which we don't do

 

Ju ju and worthy are washes when we have a healthy Palmer and shakir and even Coleman is gone for a hundred this year and I don't think worthy has

Edited October 28 by Buffalo716

[90sBills]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I don't think their receivers are Head and shoulders better than ours 

 

Rice is the only one who is absolutely better than what we have... and they have a gimmicky play caller who puts these guys open in space which we don't do

 

Ju ju and worthy are washes when we have a healthy Palmer and shakir and even Coleman is gone for a hundred this year and I don't think worthy has

I think they are. No matter how great Reid is as a play caller and designer they were pedestrian last year when their receivers were injured. Look how dynamic they are now.
 

The big difference is speed. It doesn’t seem like Bills coaching staff values or know how to use speed. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Brand J said:

I think there’s a difference between throwing shade at Allen and acknowledging he’s not playing at the level the Bills need if we’re going to go far this year. Right now I’m not overly concerned, but this team will go as far as Josh Allen takes it. Not James Cook, not any other player but Josh. We all want him to be better, but it’s annoying reading posts that go to great lengths to blame everything and everyone else but the QB.
 

Multiple things can be wrong with the passing game, I still think Joe Brady and his passing designs is most at fault followed by Allen. Joe Marino actually has Allen at the top of the list and says “receivers are open throughout the game and I've got the video to prove it,” but for many here Allen is almost without blame entirely. That is a weird fetish, a mother hen type of protection that no other player enjoys. Guess “Bills Mafia” is an apt name 😅 

I see no value in placing Allen's play under a microscope and nit picking his every throw. Of course Allen is not without blame here.  But from what I can see the critique of Allen is that he isn't elite in every game.  IMO that is an unrealistic expectation of any player.

 

I could put together a 30 minute highlight reel of Allen making amazing plays through the first 7 games of this season.  If you combined ALL the WR plays how many would truly be amazing?  With the exception of Shakir's elite RAC plays the Bills WR's have not done much that would make anyone's highlight reel. 

 

As for saying that some of us are acting like "mother hens" protecting Allen all I can say is that Allen has earned it with years of elite play.  Who else on the Bills can say that?  Maybe Cook but his exceptional play has only been for a year and a half.  

 

I'm just not ready to embrace posts critical of Allen.  They reek of "what have you done for me lately".  That might change if I see a season long Allen slump where he doesn't put the cape on.  And for the record there is a difference between an in the moment harsh of criticism of a bad Allen throw, which I have shouted at the TV on more then one occasion, and having entire treads wondering if his married life is causing him to now "suck".  

 

As for Marino I like and respect his opinion but I suspect there's more context here then you're admitting.

 

IMO the issues with the Bills passing game, in order of importance are:

 

*  Lack of WR's that are effective at the boundary and can stretch defenses downfield.  In fact the Bills have a bottom 5 WR room by any reasonable measure.

 

*  The design & structure of the passing game and the new emphasis on running the football.  McD & Brady are robbing "Peter to pay Paul".  

 

*  Allen is not as good a QB under center as he is in shotgun.  I have confidence that Allen will improve here but the poor WR room complicates things.  

 

*  The O line is better at run blocking then pass protection.  And the low number of Allen sacks is due more to Allen's ability to escape then the O line maintaining the pocket.

 

I suspect that if you fix the WR room so that it is average by NFL standards you will see a significant improvement in the passing game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

I think they are. No matter how great Reid is as a play caller and designer they were pedestrian last year when their receivers were injured. Look how dynamic they are now.
 

The big difference is speed. It doesn’t seem like Bills coaching staff values or know how to use speed. 

 

Josh Allen has gone through like four offensive coordinators and three quarterback coaches in his career 

 

Reid is the de facto offensive coordinator.. even Eric bienemy didn't call plays...

 

Mahomes has had the same play caller his entire career Josh Allen's gone through four different ones

 

Juju Smith Schuster is not way better than Jordan Palmer today lol in fact Palmer has three years straight of better stats

Edited October 29 by Buffalo716

[90sBills]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

 

Josh Allen has gone through like four offensive coordinators and three quarterback coaches in his career 

 

Reid  is the de facto offensive coordinator.. even Eric bienemy didn't call plays...

 

Mahomes has had the same play caller his entire career Josh Allen's gone through four different ones

Ok…I’m not sure what that has anything to do our discussion. We were talking about how we ended with this underperforming receiving corp right?

[Buffalo716]

9 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Ok…I’m not sure what that has anything to do our discussion. We were talking about how we ended with this underperforming receiving corp right?

I think Reid makes do better than Brady does because he's better

 

Reid could scheme our guys open ... We have the MVP..  Reid could absolutely build a offense behind our line and Allen and cook ... He could scheme open Palmer and shakir and kincaid and Coleman 

 

He literally gets guys running wide open from two yard pick plays he could do that with Coleman

 

FYI the last 2 years the Chiefs are scoring 21 points a game and we're scoring more.. they do not have Head and shoulders better wide receivers than we do 

 

Andy Reid would be able to do things with shakir and Palmer.. and even Coleman... 

 

They Have better talent not by much at wide receiver.. we also have the better offensive line and running back

 

Edited October 29 by Buffalo716

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Brand J said:

I think there’s a difference between throwing shade at Allen and acknowledging he’s not playing at the level the Bills need if we’re going to go far this year.

 

So one hand you're correct. If Allen doesn't play at his MVP near-perfect level we have no chance of going far this year. But why are you framing this as a criticism of Allen? In actuality it's a massive indictment of the people in charge.

[90sBills]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I think Reid makes do better than Brady does because he's better

 

Reid could scheme our guys open ... We have the MVP..  Reid could absolutely build a offense behind our line and Allen and cook ... He could scheme open Palmer and shakir and kincaid and Coleman 

 

He literally gets guys running wide open from two yard pick plays he could do that with Coleman

 

FYI the last 2 years the Chiefs are scoring 21 points a game and we're scoring more.. they do not have Head and shoulders better wide receivers than we do 

 

Andy Reid would be able to do things with shakir and Palmer.. and even Coleman... 

 

Have better talent not by much at wide receiver.. we also have the better offensive line and running back

 

The receivers from 2 yrs ago were not better for sure. MVS, Toney and Sky Moore were starters. Last year they had this group with Rice, Worthy and Hollywood. Injuries wiped them out last year. This is the first time they’ve played together and you can see it’s lights years better than what the Bills have. 
 

Coleman would not be on Reid’s team. Speed is essential in his offense. 

[CincyBillsFan]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

So one hand you're correct. If Allen doesn't play at his MVP near-perfect level we have no chance of going far this year. But why are you framing this as a criticism of Allen? In actuality it's a massive indictment of the people in charge.

AMEN and agree 100%.  

 

 

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

The receivers from 2 yrs ago were not better for sure. MVS, Toney and Sky Moore were starters. Last year they had this group with Rice, Worthy and Hollywood. Injuries wiped them out last year. This is the first time they’ve played together and you can see it’s lights years better than what the Bills have. 
 

Coleman would not be on Reid’s team. Speed is essential in his offense. 

 

Keon Coleman and Xavier worthy are the same level of actual wide receiver 

 

Inconsistent at best.. Coleman can catch worthy has speed 

 

Both terribly inconsistent.. but you can run rub routes to get anybody open within a few yards

 

Xavier Worthy is nothing special... They have rice and JuJu 

 

 and JuJu hasnt been a big time producer in years for a full season

 

Edited October 29 by Buffalo716

[90sBills]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

 

Keon Coleman and Xavier worthy are the same level of actual wide receiver 

 

Inconsistent at best.. Coleman can catch worthy has speed 

 

Both terribly inconsistent.. but you can run rub routes to get anybody open within a few yards

 

Worthy can take defenders away from the middle part of the field where Rice and Kelce operate. Can you imagine Coleman clearing anything out? His guy could probably guard him and help out on another route. It’s not all about stats. That’s the type of scheming that our offense doesn’t have. 

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Worthy can take defenders away from the middle part of the field where Rice and Kelce operate. Can you imagine Coleman clearing anything out? His guy could probably guard him and help out on another route. It’s not all about stats. That’s the type of scheming that our offense doesn’t have. 

The Buffalo Bills do run clearing out routes which is why Dalton Kincaid has been eating in the middle of the field

 

The Chiefs have the best offensive coordinator in the NFL the bills don't that's the difference in the scheming throughout the Long haul of the game

Edited October 29 by Buffalo716

[Roundybout]

 

 

Good lord Keon 

[90sBills]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

The Buffalo Bills do run clearing out routes which is why Dalton Kincaid has been eating in the middle of the field

Not as effectively. Hence all the passing struggles. Unless you think the problem is Allen like what this thread suggests?

 

I think Allen can be better but it’s more on the receivers and scheme. 

[Fan in Chicago]

1 hour ago, milfandcookies said:

corps not core in this instance

 

idk babe maybe they would be more scared if we tried throwing it deep once in awhile 

you misspelled corpse

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Not as effectively. Hence all the passing struggles. Unless you think the problem is Allen like what this thread suggests?

 

I think Allen can be better but it’s more on the receivers and scheme. 

Of course we need better wide receivers but we can certainly win with what we have this year even though it needs to be upgraded

 

Joe Brady needs to improve the layout of the passing game

Edited October 29 by Buffalo716

[90sBills]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Of course we need better wide receivers but we can certainly win with what we have this year even though it needs to be upgraded

Of course we can win games. But winning the Super Bowl? I don’t think so anymore if nothing changes. 

[hondo in seattle]

6 hours ago, VW82 said:

So...just as a reminder wrt Panthers game...

 

1. Josh was essentially blaming himself in the post game presser for passing game struggles.

2. Bills media guys doing all 22 are pinning a lot of the struggles on Josh.

 

I get everyone wants to blame the receivers, and they definitely deserve blame for what we've seen this year, but it's time for some on this forum to admit Josh has been subpar in a lot of these games. He needs to be better for this team.    

 

Greg Cosell, among others, is putting some of the blame on Brady.