The Ray Davis-backup running back discussion

[gonzo1105]

2 minutes ago, TBBills Fan said:

Add in his preseason numbers and that is about a games worth of stats 

And yuck

That makes sense. 

 

I don't think that move comes from outside, I'd like to first see Gore get a call up or two to see if it's him.  

 

Another option is Ty gets more touches. 

 

Then we look outside. 

I don’t care about preseason or his stats. Nor am I going to draw any conclusions on a team or specific player. If that was the case infinity amount of RBs or WRs that bills fans loved in the preseason would be on this football team right now 

[Simon]

4 minutes ago, mannc said:

There is a reason Davis is getting far fewer touches.

 

Yeah, because they've been in tight games where they need wins and are sticking with Cook to make it happen.

In the one and only game where they built a big lead Davis got 90% of his touches, most of them against a stacked box with Trubisky at QB.

His limited touches have been situational, not a reflection on him.

[TBBills Fan]

Just now, gonzo1105 said:

I don’t care about preseason or his stats. Nor am I going to draw any conclusions on a team or specific player. If that was the case infinity amount of RBs or WRs that bills fans loved in the preseason would be on this football team right now 

 

2.6 yards per carry is atrocious. 

 

And regarding preseason, I'm comparing how Gore looked compared Davis running behind the same (or worse in many of gores carries) o line. 

 

Does Ray look like the same guy he was last year to you?  He is the one who said he changed up his body type to become "more elusive or dynamic" or whatever it was he said exactly. 

 

The fact he is trying to change up his style and the different results is really what is red flag for me

[C.Biscuit97]

The talks of letting Cook walk because anyone could do that were dumb then and even dumber now. 
 

Davis is a nice guy and could be a nice change of pace. But he is almost the same age as Cook, which a lot more tread of his tires from playing 5 years in college, and doesn’t have the burst. 

[gonzo1105]

Just now, Simon said:

 

Yeah, because they've been in tight games where they need wins and are sticking with Cook to make it happen.

In the one and only game where they built a big lead Davis got 90% of his touches, most of them against a stacked box with Trubisky at QB.

His limited touches have been situational, not a reflection on him.

I seem to remember a lot of people bitching last year about why James Cook wasn’t in the game during key situations and games as well and now that he is in in these situations there must be something wrong with Davis/Johnson. Just no winning with some people 

[TBBills Fan]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

Yeah, because they've been in tight games where they need wins and are sticking with Cook to make it happen.

In the one and only game where they built a big lead Davis got 90% of his touches, most of them against a stacked box with Trubisky at QB.

His limited touches have been situational, not a reflection on him.

 

 

That is fair. The jets he had 9 carries for 24 yards. 

 

8 yard run was his long. 

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Yeah, because they've been in tight games where they need wins and are sticking with Cook to make it happen.

In the one and only game where they built a big lead Davis got 90% of his touches, most of them against a stacked box with Trubisky at QB.

His limited touches have been situational, not a reflection on him.

I wouldn’t swear to it, but I’m pretty sure Davis got plenty of big-game touches last season…

[Matt_In_NH]

You cannot conclude much based on 11 carries. I think people are jumping to conclusions. 

[TBBills Fan]

1 minute ago, gonzo1105 said:

I seem to remember a lot of people bitching last year about why James Cook wasn’t in the game during key situations and games as well and now that he is in in these situations there must be something wrong with Davis/Johnson. Just no winning with some people 

It's not that. He just doesn't seem to shed tackles, push the pile or any of that tough running he did last year. 

 

I want cook to get the bulk. But damn near 400 touches before playoff time is not a good place

 

We need our 2nd best player on offense and our best offensive weapon available in January

[gonzo1105]

Just now, TBBills Fan said:

 

2.6 yards per carry is atrocious. 

 

And regarding preseason, I'm comparing how Gore looked compared Davis running behind the same (or worse in many of gores carries) o line. 

 

Does Ray look like the same guy he was last year to you?  He is the one who said he changed up his body type to become "more elusive or dynamic" or whatever it was he said exactly. 

 

The fact he is trying to change up his style and the different results is really what is red flag for me

I haven’t seen Davis get enough touches to draw a conclusion one way or another. 2 carries a game isn’t enough period for a RB to get in a rhythm. You could be right , or maybe the Bills asked him to shed the weight. Usually players don’t lose or gain weight on their own. The coaches, with the strength staff usually decide the playing range they want a player at 

[TBBills Fan]

Just now, Matt_In_NH said:

You cannot conclude much based on 11 carries. I think people are jumping to conclusions. 

No conclusions but questions. I think that is okay 

[Simon]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

I wouldn’t swear to it, but I’m pretty sure Davis got plenty of big-game touches last season…

 

I'm sure he did, but I'd bet the bulk of them were in the second half of the season.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that same trend again.

[Matt_In_NH]

12 minutes ago, mannc said:

There is a reason Davis is getting far fewer touches

And that reason is James Cook.  Not because of anything Davis is suddenly not doing.  

[mannc]

Just now, Matt_In_NH said:

And that reason is James Cook.  Not because of anything Davis is suddenly not doing.  

I’d say it’s both…Davis has looked poor in his limited action.

[TBBills Fan]

Just now, Simon said:

 

I'm sure he did, but I'd bet the bulk of them were in the second half of the season.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that same trend again.

Last year while games were still close that were plenty of times Ray got damm near an entire series as part of a rotation 

 

Last year it was 50-25-25. Now it's not even close. 

 

I get Cook looks great. He looked this great last year as well. 

 

And I'm cooks biggest fan and was all over the pay Cook side of things. 

 

That said, I think with where the team is at, it's valid to consider how we lock up the 1st seed and make sure Cook is available and looks this good in January and February 

 

 

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

I’d say it’s both…Davis has looked poor in his limited action.

I think it both as well

 

Ty looks fine to me. 

11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The talks of letting Cook walk because anyone could do that were dumb then and even dumber now. 
 

Davis is a nice guy and could be a nice change of pace. But he is almost the same age as Cook, which a lot more tread of his tires from playing 5 years in college, and doesn’t have the burst. 

Very true. 

 

That first paragraph especially. I didn't understand when people made that argument 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

34 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

You can't judge a RB who gets a random touch here and there and thats it.  RB's need Rhythm, they need to feel the OL, the defense, etc.  Then you have the factor that in a lot of Davis carries they are mostly obviously running situations and the defense responds accordingly.  Davis is not getting the same type of touches that Cook gets who gets them on downs where we can be passing or running.  Davis is getting a random touch here and there on more obviously running downs and with no creativity.  And if you actually look at the carries, there are no holes, the play is getting blown up, its not Davis failing to see a hole.

 

This is what happens when people use a stat sheet despite the sample size is so small and the use case context is not considered. You get misleading conclusions.  I am not saying Davis is the next Cook, but he has proven he can play, and his lack of production is almost entirely rooted in the fact the plays and blocking themselves failed on the play more than anything Davis did poorly.  

 

I am not concerned at this point, not until I see him get some relevant carries that demonstrate he is the reason for the lack of success of better production on those carries.  Cook has been playing out of his mind, and they have been riding his hot feet is what the real biggest factor is.  Like others, I dont want to see this amount of carries continue for Cook, and I expect they will start to try and get the touches down some as the season goes on.  But Cook is also VERY good at avoiding hard contact and big hits.  So while there are a lot of carries, hes not taking on the same kind of physicality that comes with it like a Jacobs, Henry, Saquan, etc would be on this many touches where the power run game is a bigger part of their carries.  

 

That's why timeshares like gibbs and montgomery often swap out for drives instead of just giving someone a breather.  

[TBBills Fan]

If there are any all-22 guys, could you post the Davis runs in here so we could take a look at them?

[Simon]

7 minutes ago, TBBills Fan said:

Last year while games were still close that were plenty of times Ray got damm near an entire series as part of a rotation 

 

Discounting the finale vs NE where the starters were resting, Davis only had 3 games last year where he got 9 carries and only one of those games wasn't a blowout. So far he has one game of 9 carries this year, and it was the blowout.

I'm just not seeing that big a difference in usage so far and I think it's way too early to suggest anything is significantly different.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

8 minutes ago, mannc said:

I’d say it’s both…Davis has looked poor in his limited action.

 

He has 11 carries in 4 weeks though. If he took 1 carry for 20 yards, he'd be at 12 for 49 which is 4 YPC.  Its the smallest of small sample sizes. 

[TBBills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Discounting the finale vs NE where the starters were resting, Davis only had 3 games last year where he got 9 carries and only one of those games wasn't a blowout. So far he has one game of 9 carries this year, and it was the blowout.

I'm just not seeing that big a difference in usage so far and I think it's way too early to suggest anything is significantly different.

I just looked his first 4 games last year was 26 for 75 yards. 3.0 yards per carry. 

 

So he is down on touches and YPC but it's not some huge difference

 

Maybe it just feels that way to me. 

Gotta get back to work fellas. Looking forward to reading everyone else's thoughts