Keon drops 60 in Damar's celebrity basktball gam

[Brand J]

16 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The NBA in 2025 is way different than it was in 1997 

 

You didn't need as much of a perimeter game back then... He's 6'4 could jump out the roof .. he had solid handles for a cg

 

Guys like that would live within 15 ft of the hoop 25-30 years ago.. then when he got hot maybe he would take a couple threes 

 

Guys back then, even Reggie Miller was only taking 6 threes a game... Players with Moss's skill set would literally be shooting two or three a game max... Guys like Rodrick rhodes was a 2 who literally didn't even attempt one three a game... You didn't need to be that player back then

 

But his athleticism, rebounding skills, and ability to get to the hoop we're all something that would absolutely get build upon if he actually played division one basketball.. and if he got even a little bit more consistent jumper, there is absolutely a chance he could've made a leap in basketball 

 

 it's not like the modern NBA where guys sit at the three-point line and chuck up 10 a game

 

 

 

He didn’t have a basketball skillset that translated to the pro level in 1997. We’re hypothesizing that he could’ve grown his game to a professional level in college, but there were countless McDonald’s All American and other players who were far better regarded than Randy Moss going into their freshman season that didn’t pan out. One of the players that Randy referenced in that YouTube video - Schea Cotton - who convinced him to leave basketball, was a far better prospect. The NBA is about much more than athleticism. There are guys then and now who had Randy’s size and athleticism that didn’t make it. By Randy’s own admission he didn’t think he had what it took. 

[Augie]

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Well, Izzo never played him-he obviously felt he was more likely to excel at football than at basketball, hence the kind advice. If he was that good, he would never have made him choose.  Why on earth would he?  plenty of NFL guys played a lot of D1 basketball.  It's easy to conclude that Coleman's game was not as good as any of those guys.

 

Tom Izzo recruited him to one of the top basketball programs in the country and gave him a scholarship. Let’s not pretend he’s not very skilled in basketball. Yes, his ceiling is higher in football, but he’s still a pretty damn good basketball player. 

 

 

.

Edited 10 hours ago by Augie

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, Brand J said:

He didn’t have a basketball skillset that translated to the pro level in 1997. We’re hypothesizing that he could’ve grown his game to a professional level in college, but there were countless McDonald’s All American and other players who were far better regarded than Randy Moss going into their freshman season that didn’t pan out. One of the players that Randy referenced in that YouTube video - Schea Cotton - who convinced him to leave basketball, was a far better prospect. The NBA is about much more than athleticism. There are guys then and now who had Randy’s size and athleticism that didn’t make it. By Randy’s own admission he didn’t think he had what it took. 

You're using Randy's own admission as a football Superstar where he knew he was going to make it 

 

Like if you are the best wide receiver in the state of West Virginia in the last 20 years.. he knew he was going to the NFL as long as he stayed out of trouble 

 

He had a lot tougher road to try to be in NBA player.. that's easy to admit and why he took another route 

 

But Jason Williams his own point guard says he thinks Randy Moss could play in the NBA.. Jason Williams saw him everyday for years if he says he could have if he put his mind to it I believe him

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

You're using Randy's own admission as a football Superstar where he knew he was going to make it 

 

Like if you are the best wide receiver in the state of West Virginia in the last 20 years.. he knew he was going to the NFL as long as he stayed out of trouble 

 

He had a lot tougher road to try to be in NBA player.. that's easy to admit and why he took another route 

 

But Jason Williams his own point guard says he thinks Randy Moss could play in the NBA.. Jason Williams saw him everyday for years if he says he could have if he put his mind to it I believe him

Quote

“A lot of the athletes that were there were basketball all-year-round gym rats,” Moss told Garnett from his leather chair. “When I got there, I was a season athlete, so seeing you guys — top-five guys, top-10 guys in the country — so in a roundabout way I kind of got depressed a little bit, just for the fact that I knew I couldn’t compete with you guys.”

He chose the sport he had a brighter future in, no doubt. Moss like Coleman, have more guys at their size and athleticism in basketball than they do in football. He was an all world receiver, arguably the best of all time if he had Jerry’s work ethic, but he wasn’t an all world basketball prospect. And he knew it. Would he have been if he focused on the sport like Mercer, Cotton, Garnett, and the many others at that all star game? It’s tough to say, all conjecture at this point. Players I would’ve told you should’ve made it, didn’t. The list of high school AND college All Americans who didn’t pan out with an NBA career is far longer than the ones who did.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

You’re underestimating the talent in today’s nba.  Just because teams have less superstars now doesn’t have any affect on the talent level on the roster.  
 

95% of the the best teams in the 80’s and 90’s had 2 terrible pros on them.  Look at the lakers teams from 80-86-  they have 3-4 of them

 

now they have 6-7. But at least we can agree that there are terrible pros.

 

2 hours ago, WeckMonster said:

This is WAY off. Basketball talent is 1000x better than even 20 years ago. Played in high school and now involved in travel circuit through my teenage kids. The skill level is insane. Early specialization, way better coaching, YouTube, camp circuits, etc.

 

That’s just US. The game has globalized and 25% of the NBA is now international.  That number will hit 50% in the next 20 years.

 

While all of the bolded is true, the claim that the talent is 1000x better than in the NBA's heydays 80s/90s, and by extension, the game is 1000x better is clearly wrong to anyone who watches the game.  The main problem is that almost no one plays in college for 4 years anymore.  Defense is non existent and very soft and the whole game is about 3 point shots.  That's the entire league offensive philosophy.  Teams are chucking upwards of 60+ 3's per game. It's hard to watch.  

 

 

1 hour ago, Brand J said:

There’s a league full of NBA hopefuls called the G League, maybe you’ve heard of it. It’s a step up from division 1 basketball. The players in the G League, maybe with one or two exceptions, aren’t better or can’t do what is asked of them consistently than the 12th man on an NBA bench.
 

You can argue with yourself about how Moss is, or could’ve been an NBA prospect - despite no evidence to the contrary and after Moss himself thanked legit basketball players for pushing him to football - but it’s an exercise in stupidity. Sorry, but it is. One of the players Moss mentioned that was at that high school basketball all star game - Schea Cotton - was a high school legend. If anyone was destined to play in the NBA it’d be him, right? Nope, he didn’t make it. And neither did the multitudes of other McDonald’s High School All Americans. If it was enough to be a supremely athletic 6’4” guard with minimal basketball skill, then yes, Moss could have made it and rode a bench. But it’s not enough. NBA players are far more skilled than you give them credit for.
 

Randy Moss was not skilled enough for the NBA. Period.

 

I'm not knocking all NBA players, just the very bottom of the bench.  You insist that they are better than nearly every player at their position that is not on an NBA roster.  This could only be true if you assume that the scouting/drafting process is infallible--this is obviously absurd.  Look at the NFL--every year guys wash out of the league after a season, despite all of the prep work in evaluating them.  But if you scouts suck, then why would you believe that they can always spot the best players to the exclusion of all other players?  They can't possibly scout all players.  The Bills drafted EJ Manuel, essentially, after seeing him play in the Senior Bowl. He was terrible.  You would conclude that, never the less, he had to be better than 99% of the QBs playing college football at that time---simply because he was drafted and made a roster.  That's absurd.

 

57 minutes ago, Brand J said:

And this Jaden Springer kid he’s poo poo’ing was also an “all everything” high school player who had been playing varsity since 8th grade. And then was a standout in the SEC and in the G League. He was also a finals MVP and won a title in that league. Terrible NBA player? Sure, I can grant you that, but as terrible as he is - relative to his NBA peers - he’s still clearly a more skilled basketball prospect than Randy Moss ever was.

I thought Moss could play D1 somewhere, but I stand by the belief he wouldn’t have been a starter on a high end basketball team. Didn’t have the skills and leadership to run the point, wasn’t a good enough perimeter player to play the two.

 

I'm using him as an example.  If Moss had been coached and developed and as many resources were used to developed his game as was spent on Springer, I think it's reasonable that he could have been an NBA  journeyman bench warmer who rarely played any meaningful minutes on 3 teams in 4 years.

 

 

17 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Tom Izzo recruited him to one of the top basketball programs in the country and gave time a scholarship. Let’s not pretend he’s not very skilled in basketball. Yes, his ceiling is higher in football, but he’s still a pretty damn good basketball player. 

 

He's pretty good yes.  But it's pretty rare for a top program to tell one of its recruits "maybe football would be for you"----after 6 games.  Izzo would never do this if he had any use for Coleman at all. 

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He's pretty good yes.  But it's pretty rare for a top program to tell one of its recruits "maybe football would be for you"----after 6 games.  Izzo would never do this if he had any use for Coleman at all. 

 

So, are you calling Tom Izzo a bad person? Maybe, just maybe, he did the right thing and helped him find his most promising path.  That doesn’t mean he couldn’t have been a contributor in time at MSU.

[Brand J]

20 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

I'm not knocking all NBA players, just the very bottom of the bench.  You insist that they are better than nearly every player at their position that is not on an NBA roster.  This could only be true if you assume that the scouting/drafting process is infallible--this is obviously absurd.

Clearly NBA bench players are better than you’re giving them credit for. Good thing guys get to prove themselves in leagues like the G League and overseas. Look at all the success stories we’ve had! Oh wait, no, we don’t have many. If you’re deep on an NBA bench, you’re there for a reason. You bring something to practice that coaches believe is better than any other player available at your position. If they spot someone potentially better, that player is given an opportunity. I’m not going to get into the EJ Manuel experiment, that’s another discussion entirely and not in the same sport. But consider this… besides Geno Smith, how many draft eligible QBs in his class went on to be better than Manuel? Manuel was, by definition, better than his peers, he just wasn’t good enough for the NFL. 

27 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

I'm using him as an example.  If Moss had been coached and developed and as many resources were used to developed his game as was spent on Springer, I think it's reasonable that he could have been an NBA  journeyman bench warmer who rarely played any meaningful minutes on 3 teams in 4 years.

All conjecture. As I stated earlier, the list of high school All Americans and collegiate All Americans that didn’t have an NBA career that panned out, even as a bench player, is longer than the list that did. 

[Mr. WEO]

28 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

So, are you calling Tom Izzo a bad person? Maybe, just maybe, he did the right thing and helped him find his most promising path.  That doesn’t mean he couldn’t have been a contributor in time at MSU.

 

 

huh?  no.  I'm calling him a good guy for telling Coleman D1 basketball isn't for him after all...he did the kid a huge favor in recruiting him and then letting him go.

 

17 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Clearly NBA bench players are better than you’re giving them credit for. Good thing guys get to prove themselves in leagues like the G League and overseas. Look at all the success stories we’ve had! Oh wait, no, we don’t have many. If you’re deep on an NBA bench, you’re there for a reason. You bring something to practice that coaches believe is better than any other player available at your position. If they spot someone potentially better, that player is given an opportunity. I’m not going to get into the EJ Manuel experiment, that’s another discussion entirely and not in the same sport. But consider this… besides Geno Smith, how many draft eligible QBs in his class went on to be better than Manuel? Manuel was, by definition, better than his peers, he just wasn’t good enough for the NFL. 

All conjecture. As I stated earlier, the list of high school All Americans and collegiate All Americans that didn’t have an NBA career that panned out, even as a bench player, is longer than the list that did. 

 

You keep saying I'm not giving "NBA players" for being good.  Most of them are.  Others simply aren't that good--but since teams don't (and probably can't ) scout every single player in the country, they instead focus on power 5 1 and done kids.  So it's impossible to conclude that these teams eliminated every possible option.  So they end up with guys like Springer, who would likely get destroyed 1 on 1 against as kid like Cotton in the day.

 

As for Manuel, the obvious reply is the they didn't have to pick ANY QB that year, given the slim pickings (Wilson and Cousins were easily available the year before).  Yet they settled on a guy who would predictably flame out soon (partly because country bumpkin GM thought Wilson was "too short").  But you would argue that EJ was better than any other college QB available anywhere.... simply because he was drafted.  Makes no sense.

[Brand J]

34 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

You keep saying I'm not giving "NBA players" for being good.  Most of them are.  Others simply aren't that good--but since teams don't (and probably can't ) scout every single player in the country, they instead focus on power 5 1 and done kids.  So it's impossible to conclude that these teams eliminated every possible option.  So they end up with guys like Springer, who would likely get destroyed 1 on 1 against as kid like Cotton in the day.

 

As for Manuel, the obvious reply is the they didn't have to pick ANY QB that year, given the slim pickings (Wilson and Cousins were easily available the year before).  Yet they settled on a guy who would predictably flame out soon (partly because country bumpkin GM thought Wilson was "too short").  But you would argue that EJ was better than any other college QB available anywhere.... simply because he was drafted.  Makes no sense.

You’re not giving NBA bench players the respect they deserve, I’ve said this a few times. And by “not good” you mean relative to their NBA peers, of course, not the basketball playing population at large. At least that’s what I hope you mean but maybe I’m giving you too much credit. To even make the G League you’d have to be in the 90th something percentile as a basketball player. “If you can play, they will find you.” Famous words of a hall of fame coach who’s name escapes me.
 

And Cotton is a perfect example of someone who was blessed with the gift of basketball, but still couldn’t put it together at the NBA level. This is a guy who received the resources you wanted to afford Moss. Springer may not have been a better 1 v 1 player than Cotton if the two went head up, but the NBA doesn’t play 1 v 1 basketball. Springer was a superior team player than Cotton, with a better defined role. His understanding of the game and the position he plays means more.

 

And EJ Manuel was better than any QB - high school, college, or semi pro - that never got an NFL opportunity, yes.

[Goin Breakdown]

I hope he gets all the drops out of him now. 
 

did I read something wrong here?

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

You're using Randy's own admission as a football Superstar where he knew he was going to make it 

 

Like if you are the best wide receiver in the state of West Virginia in the last 20 years.. he knew he was going to the NFL as long as he stayed out of trouble 

 

He had a lot tougher road to try to be in NBA player.. that's easy to admit and why he took another route 

 

But Jason Williams his own point guard says he thinks Randy Moss could play in the NBA.. Jason Williams saw him everyday for years if he says he could have if he put his mind to it I believe him

Jwill is also his boy.  No reason for him to say the opposite.  
 

Rodrick Rhodes was also 6’6 and much more physical than Moss.  He couldn’t shoot the rock which ended his nba dream after 3 years of riding the pine.  Moss played vs terrible comp and was running around dunking on and swatting 6’3 power forwards and stealing the ball from 5’8 guards.  He was a 6’4 Center known for playing great interior d (vs bad competition) and finishing in transition.  His entire game revolved around being above the rim.  No handles.  Zero jumper.  

 

[Buffalo716]

9 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Jwill is also his boy.  No reason for him to say the opposite.  
 

Rodrick Rhodes was also 6’6 and much more physical than Moss.  He couldn’t shoot the rock which ended his nba dream after 3 years of riding the pine.  Moss played vs terrible comp and was running around dunking on and swatting 6’3 power forwards and stealing the ball from 5’8 guards.  He was a 6’4 Center known for playing great interior d (vs bad competition) and finishing in transition.  His entire game revolved around being above the rim.  No handles.  Zero jumper.  

 

He was Mr basketball in West Virginia twice tho

 

  there are five star basketball players whose entire game revolves around being above the rim with zero jumper today 

 

But being Mr basketball twice shows he was more than just a football star.. Jason Williams wasn't even Mr basketball twice... Now I'm not saying he better than Jay will, I'm saying it shows he was at the top rung of West Virginia high School basketball... And he was a three sport star athlete and never even committed to basketball fully

 

He had high major division one offers for basketball that alone says anything is possible after 4 years of development

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Buffalo716

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

He was Mr basketball in West Virginia twice tho

 

  there are five star basketball players whose entire game revolves around being above the rim with zero jumper today 

 

But being Mr basketball twice shows he was more than just a football star

 

He had high major division one offers for basketball that alone says anything is possible after 4 years of development

He rarely, if ever shot J’s.  He rarely, if ever, dribbled more than 2 times going to the rack. He was 6’4 and made a living in the paint.  Doing this at a time where physical play was allowed.  
 

Yes, elite athlete and maybe he could’ve learned how to shoot and dribble.  Very slim chance imo.  Nothing that he did well in HS to win player of the year translated to the nba except dunking- while being on the receiving end of one of the best passers most fans have ever seen. 
 

 

[nedboy7]

I totally get if you don’t like the NBA. But to claim they don’t play defense or that the guys from the 90s would beat on these guys is silly.  I doubt anyone who dislikes the NBA actually watches the game close enough to even make those comparisons.  Yes they definitely have changed the game with the amount of 3s they shoot but that doesn’t translate to a lower skillset. 

Edited 8 hours ago by nedboy7

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He rarely, if ever shot J’s.  He rarely, if ever, dribbled more than 2 times going to the rack. He was 6’4 and made a living in the paint.  Doing this at a time where physical play was allowed.  
 

Yes, elite athlete and maybe he could’ve learned how to shoot and dribble.  Very slim chance imo.  Nothing that he did well in HS to win player of the year translated to the nba except dunking- while being on the receiving end of one of the best passers most fans have ever seen. 
 

 

13 rebounds five steals four blocks a game shows he could have been a defensive Stalwart potentially 

 

Every team from college to the pros needs a defensive guy especially one who could cover the one and the two.. maybe a smaller 3

 

His athleticism at the two would still definitely shine through in college especially defensively would translate

 

I don't think anybody is saying he would be a Hall of Fame basketball player... He had enough athleticism and defensive talent to  play division 1 basketball though and if he fully focused on basketball who knows what could have happened to his game 

 

It's a what if... Because when he stop playing basketball, the guys like Kevin Garnett.. were in the gym 6 hours a day already... Randy wasn't that polished but he had room to grow 

 

He wasn't just a Hooper

Edited 8 hours ago by Buffalo716

[Brand J]

I think Anthony Edwards would have a better chance at being an NFL TE than Randy Moss would at being an NBA 2 guard, but there’s that NBA vs NFL debate again. All these athletes believe they can do anything, to the point of delusion. Jason Williams in an interview once said he was a star QB for Dupont HS, but then I read the comments and people were saying he didn’t even play football 😂 I think Josh Allen even said he could come off the bench in the NBA and get buckets. There’s nothing a professional athlete doesn’t believe he can do… until they legitimately try to cross over into that other sport and see how difficult it is to compete with men who have made it their singular focus. Could Moss have played in the NBA if basketball was his singular focus and where he dedicated all his time? I don’t know, but he would’ve had a legitimate shot. If he didn’t pan out, he’d be one in a long line of “all world” high school AND collegiate stars who couldn’t make the leap.

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, Brand J said:

I think Anthony Edwards would have a better chance at being an NFL TE than Randy Moss would at being an NBA 2 guard, but there’s that NBA vs NFL debate again. All these athletes believe they can do anything, to the point of delusion. Jason Williams in an interview once said he was a star QB for Dupont HS, but then I read the comments and people were saying he didn’t even play football 😂 I think Josh Allen even said he could come off the bench in the NBA and get buckets. There’s nothing a professional athlete doesn’t believe he can do… until they legitimately try to cross over into that other sport and see how difficult it is to compete with men who have made it their singular focus. Could Moss have played in the NBA if basketball was his singular focus and where he dedicated all his time? I don’t know, but he would’ve had a legitimate shot. If he didn’t pan out, he’d be one in a long line of “all world” high school AND collegiate stars who couldn’t make the leap.

I think Anthony Edwards would probably have a better shot playing safety or WR

 

People are talking about Dalton Kincaid size and he has squarely 15 20 lb on ant 

 

But at 6'4 220 if he had no fear he might be a killer safety 

 

I do agree with you all big time athletes have the confidence that they could do whatever they want.. I do believe Jason Williams did play quarterback for at least one season with Randy

 

 when Jason Williams was a senior Randy was a junior and Williams always said he played football and was a qb

Edited 7 hours ago by Buffalo716

[NewEra]

32 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

13 rebounds five steals four blocks a game shows he could have been a defensive Stalwart potentially 

 

Every team from college to the pros needs a defensive guy especially one who could cover the one and the two.. maybe a smaller 3

 

His athleticism at the two would still definitely shine through in college especially defensively would translate

 

I don't think anybody is saying he would be a Hall of Fame basketball player... He had enough athleticism and defensive talent to  play division 1 basketball though and if he fully focused on basketball who knows what could have happened to his game 

 

It's a what if... Because when he stop playing basketball, the guys like Kevin Garnett.. were in the gym 6 hours a day already... Randy wasn't that polished but he had room to grow 

 

He wasn't just a Hooper

He wasn’t even playing man- he was standing in the middle of a zone in every highlight I’ve seen. During a time in which there was no defensive 3 seconds.  He did all this as an elite athletes playing against 99.9% non elite athletes in a WV HS
 

sure-  he could’ve- maybe Angel Reese will become a 3 point shooting PG too.  She’s a great athlete- she just needs to practice.  
 

I hear what you’re saying- but the odds would’ve been insanely stacked against him.  Lots of things “could have happened”.  This is one of 999999999999999999999 things that could’ve happened.   

[Buffalo716]

21 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He wasn’t even playing man- he was standing in the middle of a zone in every highlight I’ve seen. During a time in which there was no defensive 3 seconds.  He did all this as an elite athletes playing against 99.9% non elite athletes in a WV HS
 

sure-  he could’ve- maybe Angel Reese will become a 3 point shooting PG too.  She’s a great athlete- she just needs to practice.  
 

I hear what you’re saying- but the odds would’ve been insanely stacked against him.  Lots of things “could have happened”.  This is one of 999999999999999999999 things that could’ve happened.   

There is literally only like 3 minutes of clips of him playing basketball though 

 

It's not like there's a 2-hour mixtape... Angel Reese is not even on the same stratosphere as athlete as Randy Moss.. she's a bully power forward

 

I get what you're getting at.. but something tells me Randy Moss's 15 ft jump shot isn't as bad as what is being made out

 

I don't think Ohio state would have given Moss a basketball scholarship if he couldn't shoot a basketball at all.. same with Notre Dame which has stressed fundamental basketball for 30 years

 

The road to the NBA was probably a crazy crazy long long road.. without a doubt a lot longer and harder than his football road

Edited 7 hours ago by Buffalo716

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

There is literally only like 3 minutes of clips of him playing basketball though 

 

It's not like there's a 2-hour mixtape... Angel Reese is not even on the same stratosphere as athlete as Randy Moss.. she's a bully power forward

 

I get what you're getting at.. but something tells me Randy Moss's 15 ft jump shot isn't as bad as what is being made out

 

I don't think Ohio state would have given Moss a basketball scholarship if he couldn't shoot a basketball at all

Seriously?  The best programs, much better than OSU, have offered hundreds of scholarships to 6’4 players that can’t shoot.  That’s a guarantee