leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 12 Posted May 12 16 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: I took all comers. I would not have liked being forced to. FREEDOM! what is it with principle and you guys? I know, you don't have any. As Canada said, health care is a right. You have a bad gallbladder, we'll take it out. You need a new kidney or dialysis, no problem. You want plastic surgery or botox for your face? That's on you. And if Dr X wants a cash only biz that improves his lifestyle and income and people are willing to pay more for it, so be it.. you're turning socialist on us....Cuba is very nice this time of year. It's wouldn't be about you, Fergie, it's about the process mandated by the government for the benefit of the people it serves. You participate for the greater good, while maintaining the option to line your pockets at other times. The people are best served by access to all--and if a physician is going to benefit from the system, there should be a prerequisite for providing access to as many people as possible. Sheesh, I even went a bit on the liberal side suggesting the physician is not required to provide equal access to all more than 50% of the time. That allows for 50% of the week in pursuit of less financially restrictive opportunities. As for criticisms of my principles, you're the guy who wants special treatment because you were able to make a fortune off the treatment of others. The Canadian health care system as it exists is exactly what we should all hope to avoid, where patients are often forced to seek care internationally because the system simply fails to deliver consistent, quality care when needed. This isn't a new phenomenon, it's kind of odd that a doctor wouldn't know that. 2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: I read the actual Executive Order. I have no idea how this is supposed to be enforced if drug companies don't voluntarily play along. My guess is it will be through antitrust actions, which isn't exactly the same as "immediately." Still, I hope it works... eventually. This is a rare Trump initiative that almost everyone seems to like, at least in concept. Do you feel this order represents an assault on democratic principles and executive overreach?
Joe Ferguson forever Posted May 12 Posted May 12 (edited) 8 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: It's wouldn't be about you, Fergie, it's about the process mandated by the government for the benefit of the people it serves. You participate for the greater good, while maintaining the option to line your pockets at other times. The people are best served by access to all--and if a physician is going to benefit from the system, there should be a prerequisite for providing access to as many people as possible. Sheesh, I even went a bit on the liberal side suggesting the physician is not required to provide equal access to all more than 50% of the time. That allows for 50% of the week in pursuit of less financially restrictive opportunities. As for criticisms of my principles, you're the guy who wants special treatment because you were able to make a fortune off the treatment of others. The Canadian health care system as it exists is exactly what we should all hope to avoid, where patients are often forced to seek care internationally because the system simply fails to deliver consistent, quality care when needed. This isn't a new phenomenon, it's kind of odd that a doctor wouldn't know that. Do you feel this order represents an assault on democratic principles and executive overreach? https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2801918/ Results We identified 38 studies comparing populations of patients in Canada and the United States. Studies addressed diverse problems, including cancer, coronary artery disease, chronic medical illnesses and surgical procedures. Of 10 studies that included extensive statistical adjustment and enrolled broad populations, 5 favoured Canada, 2 favoured the United States, and 3 showed equivalent or mixed results. Of 28 studies that failed one of these criteria, 9 favoured Canada, 3 favoured the United States, and 16 showed equivalent or mixed results. Overall, results for mortality favoured Canada (relative risk 0.95, 95% confidence interval 0.92-0.98, p= 0.002) but were very heterogeneous, and we failed to find convincing explanations for this heterogeneity. The only condition in which results consistently favoured one country was end-stage renal .disease, in which Canadian patients fared better. Results We identified 38 studies comparing populations of patients in Canada and the United States. Studies addressed diverse problems, including cancer, coronary artery disease, chronic medical illnesses and surgical procedures. Of 10 studies that included extensive statistical adjustment and enrolled broad populations, 5 favoured Canada, 2 favoured the United States, and 3 showed equivalent or mixed results. Of 28 studies that failed one of these criteria, 9 favoured Canada, 3 favoured the United States, and 16 showed equivalent or mixed results. Overall, results for mortality favoured Canada (relative risk 0.95, 95% confidence interval 0.92-0.98, p= 0.002) but were very heterogeneous, and we failed to find convincing explanations for this heterogeneity. The only condition in which results consistently favoured one country was end-stage renal disease, in which Canadian patients fared better. Yes, doctors make more in the US but I was on the single payer bandwagon long before retiring. Many active docs are. Edited May 12 by Joe Ferguson forever
Joe Ferguson forever Posted May 12 Posted May 12 Many docs, including me, saying this to corporate medicine. It doesn't work. For anyone...
The Frankish Reich Posted May 12 Posted May 12 56 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Do you feel this order represents an assault on democratic principles and executive overreach? No, this one is garden variety bullcrap.
Doc Posted May 12 Posted May 12 6 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: No, this one is garden variety bullcrap. We'll see about that one. There is no election to win so this isn't your usual pandering to the masses. 1
Andy1 Posted May 12 Posted May 12 I get why people will support this EO. I just wonder if it is really legal. I’m no attorney so have no insight on that issue, but if it is legal, it would suggest that the President can order other private companies to lower prices too, just because he can with an EO. Why doesn’t he sign an EO ordering phone manufacturers and cell phone companies (or any other product) to lower prices 25%, or whatever he wants? That would also benefit everyone. It all sounds like a big nothing for distraction as they try to cut Medicare/Medicaid. 1
Tommy Callahan Posted May 12 Posted May 12 Lol. It's just funny reading all the left swing in unison to the reactionary talking points. But predictable at this point.
Joe Ferguson forever Posted May 12 Posted May 12 4 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: Lol. It's just funny reading all the left swing in unison to the reactionary talking points. But predictable at this point. it's more funny reading totally uninformed opinions.
Homelander Posted May 12 Posted May 12 7 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: it's more funny reading totally uninformed opinions. "Predictable" is a funny word for projecting.
Joe Ferguson forever Posted May 12 Posted May 12 (edited) great article from a neutral perspective https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c93l7k3x5dpo The wording directs US officials to make sure that deals over drug costs made by foreign countries do not result in "unreasonable or discriminatory" price hikes for Americans. But what exactly is covered by those terms is unclear – as is the question of what measures the White House would take if "unreasonable" practices are discovered. The White House also wants drug companies to sell more products directly to consumers - cutting out insurance companies and pharmaceutical benefit managers - and look into importing drugs from foreign countries where they are sold at lower prices. That idea has previously hit stumbling blocks over safety and trade rules. An official said that Monday's order was the start of negotiations between the US Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) and industry. Edited May 12 by Joe Ferguson forever
dgrochester55 Posted May 12 Posted May 12 (edited) Not surprised to the see typical lefty TBD TDS clique being critical about lowering prescription drug prices. If Trump did it, it must be bad. How rude of Trump to interrupt their 40 day 24/7 circle jerk about the tariffs. If Trump banned prescription drug commercials they would probably try to argue how much everyone loves watching them. If prices actually go down, they would probably try to continue to pay higher costs on principle? Edited May 12 by dgrochester55 4 1 1
nedboy7 Posted May 12 Posted May 12 This will go nowhere. Trump will make a deal. Prices will drop by 4%. MAGA will be besides themselves with admiration for the great leader. Rinse and repeat.
Homelander Posted May 12 Posted May 12 Not surprised to the see typical MAGA cult being distracted by Trump "lowering prescription drug prices " while he nixes overdraft rules that Biden implemented. Trump signs resolution to nix CFPB overdraft rule 1
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 12 Posted May 12 2 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2801918/ Results We identified 38 studies comparing populations of patients in Canada and the United States. Studies addressed diverse problems, including cancer, coronary artery disease, chronic medical illnesses and surgical procedures. Of 10 studies that included extensive statistical adjustment and enrolled broad populations, 5 favoured Canada, 2 favoured the United States, and 3 showed equivalent or mixed results. Of 28 studies that failed one of these criteria, 9 favoured Canada, 3 favoured the United States, and 16 showed equivalent or mixed results. Overall, results for mortality favoured Canada (relative risk 0.95, 95% confidence interval 0.92-0.98, p= 0.002) but were very heterogeneous, and we failed to find convincing explanations for this heterogeneity. The only condition in which results consistently favoured one country was end-stage renal .disease, in which Canadian patients fared better. Results We identified 38 studies comparing populations of patients in Canada and the United States. Studies addressed diverse problems, including cancer, coronary artery disease, chronic medical illnesses and surgical procedures. Of 10 studies that included extensive statistical adjustment and enrolled broad populations, 5 favoured Canada, 2 favoured the United States, and 3 showed equivalent or mixed results. Of 28 studies that failed one of these criteria, 9 favoured Canada, 3 favoured the United States, and 16 showed equivalent or mixed results. Overall, results for mortality favoured Canada (relative risk 0.95, 95% confidence interval 0.92-0.98, p= 0.002) but were very heterogeneous, and we failed to find convincing explanations for this heterogeneity. The only condition in which results consistently favoured one country was end-stage renal disease, in which Canadian patients fared better. Yes, doctors make more in the US but I was on the single payer bandwagon long before retiring. Many active docs are. I really have no skin in this game, but I first heard about this when one of my Uncle’s came across the border for a private pay surgical procedure on his heart. His perspective was that due to extreme delays in treatment, he would be dead before his needs were addressed. To be fair, that was quite a few years ago and perhaps it’s gotten way better. I don’t think so, but maybe. E https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/article/i-had-started-saying-goodbye-why-some-canadians-go-abroad-for-medical-care/ According to the Canadian Medical Association, non-emergency surgeries that can be scheduled in advance, like hip, knee and cataract procedures, are being delayed, while a growing number of Canadians — now more than 6.5 million — lack access to a family doctor altogether. ‘I had to go abroad to save my life’ Celyn Harding-Jones, a Montrealer, says she was forced to look outside the country after living with a rare brain tumour for 20 years. “I had to go abroad to save my life,” she said in an email to CTVNews.ca. “I could not find one neurosurgeon in Canada who had any experience with this type of tumour or who was willing to operate.” “By the time I was 35, I had drop attacks and could barely care for my children,” she said, adding “the process to ask for provincial health boards for out of province care are not transparent, and not designed to be completed by people who are seriously sick.” https://thehealthinsider.ca/crossing-borders-for-care-the-rise-of-medical-tourism-for-canadians/#:~:text=Patients Leaving the Country&text=From 2017 to 2021%2C Canadians,jump over the previous years. Canadians seeking medical care abroad are a lot more measurable and are engaging in medical tourism in what is likely much higher numbers than reported. From 2017 to 2021, Canadians spent as much as $2.3 billion on out-of-country health care. According to reports published by the Fraser Institute, over 50,000 Canadians left the country in 2022 and that was a big jump over the previous years. The numbers continue to climb dramatically.
Doc Posted May 12 Posted May 12 26 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: This will go nowhere. Trump will make a deal. Prices will drop by 4%. MAGA will be besides themselves with admiration for the great leader. Rinse and repeat. What percentage drop would be a real win?
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 12 Posted May 12 17 minutes ago, Homelander said: Not surprised to the see typical MAGA cult being distracted by Trump "lowering prescription drug prices " while he nixes overdraft rules that Biden implemented. Trump signs resolution to nix CFPB overdraft rule I don’t understand the rationale here. You have money in a checking account, let’s say $2,000. You write a series of checks, auto-withdraw a few other payments, hit the Starbucks for a few lattes and the total is $3,195. Who needs protection here, the bank or the consumer who lost track of their spending?
Joe Ferguson forever Posted May 13 Posted May 13 (edited) 38 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I don’t understand the rationale here. You have money in a checking account, let’s say $2,000. You write a series of checks, auto-withdraw a few other payments, hit the Starbucks for a few lattes and the total is $3,195. Who needs protection here, the bank or the consumer who lost track of their spending? have you ever bought tix on ticketmaster? gotten a payday loan (usury)? had unannounced fees added to your bill? 46 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I really have no skin in this game, but I first heard about this when one of my Uncle’s came across the border for a private pay surgical procedure on his heart. His perspective was that due to extreme delays in treatment, he would be dead before his needs were addressed. To be fair, that was quite a few years ago and perhaps it’s gotten way better. I don’t think so, but maybe. E https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/article/i-had-started-saying-goodbye-why-some-canadians-go-abroad-for-medical-care/ According to the Canadian Medical Association, non-emergency surgeries that can be scheduled in advance, like hip, knee and cataract procedures, are being delayed, while a growing number of Canadians — now more than 6.5 million — lack access to a family doctor altogether. ‘I had to go abroad to save my life’ Celyn Harding-Jones, a Montrealer, says she was forced to look outside the country after living with a rare brain tumour for 20 years. “I had to go abroad to save my life,” she said in an email to CTVNews.ca. “I could not find one neurosurgeon in Canada who had any experience with this type of tumour or who was willing to operate.” “By the time I was 35, I had drop attacks and could barely care for my children,” she said, adding “the process to ask for provincial health boards for out of province care are not transparent, and not designed to be completed by people who are seriously sick.” https://thehealthinsider.ca/crossing-borders-for-care-the-rise-of-medical-tourism-for-canadians/#:~:text=Patients Leaving the Country&text=From 2017 to 2021%2C Canadians,jump over the previous years. Canadians seeking medical care abroad are a lot more measurable and are engaging in medical tourism in what is likely much higher numbers than reported. From 2017 to 2021, Canadians spent as much as $2.3 billion on out-of-country health care. According to reports published by the Fraser Institute, over 50,000 Canadians left the country in 2022 and that was a big jump over the previous years. The numbers continue to climb dramatically. look at the outcomes. Those are what ultimately matter most. big news day https://edition.cnn.com/2025/05/12/china/china-mao-trump-cultural-revolution-intl-hnk And in the US president, Ding noticed what he said were striking similarities with the late Chinese chairman whom he once worshiped as a young Red Guard: despite their vast differences, they both share a deep contempt for intellectual elites, a strong mistrust of the bureaucratic apparatus, and a populist appeal aimed at farmers and blue-collar workers. Edited May 13 by Joe Ferguson forever
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 13 Posted May 13 4 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: have you ever bought tix on ticketmaster? gotten a payday loan (usury)? had unannounced fees added to your bill? look at the outcomes. Those are what ultimately matter most. big news day https://edition.cnn.com/2025/05/12/china/china-mao-trump-cultural-revolution-intl-hnk Yes, I’ve bought tickets on Ticketmaster. I’m uncertain what you mean by unannounced fees. No, I’ve never taken a payday loan. (Were you a doctor for La Cosa
Joe Ferguson forever Posted May 13 Posted May 13 (edited) 5 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Yes, I’ve bought tickets on Ticketmaster. I’m uncertain what you mean by unannounced fees. No, I’ve never taken a payday loan. (Were you a doctor for La Cosa pretty sure I treated a couple mobsters. all comers don't you know. good thing you didn't need a payday loan. I hear they're prevalent near military bases. not good. capped at 36%. bless their little hearts https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/what-is-covered-under-the-military-lending-act-en-1785/ Edited May 13 by Joe Ferguson forever
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