Buffalo03 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 10 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: The NFL is different too, including more playoff teams now. Most of the teams that McD has padded his playoff stats against (all 6 of his wins are against 5th-7th seeds) wouldn’t even have made it during the 80s when only 5 teams in each conference made it. Maybe McDermott can bee an Andy Reid or Tom Coughlin instead of a Norv Turner or Marty Schottenheimer, but it really doesn’t matter with respect to the Bills or to the comparison I made. That’s because I’m talking about McDermott and the Bills. I watched it once and it’s the same movie, just updated for the 2020s. And another thing, Schottenheimer just had terrible luck in a few of them. John Elway had probably the greatest drive of all time against them. The next year Ernest Byner fumbles running into the end zone. His last game coaching in San Diego, Marlon McCree picked off Brady in the final minutes, tried to run the ball back and fumbled and the Patriots recovered. There's even video on Marty Schottenheimer's "A Football Life" when it shows him in warm ups of that game telling McCree "if you make a play to seal it, just go down. Don't risk it". McCree tried to run it back anyway. He gets unfairly criticized. Some coaches get the bounces. Some don't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 31 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said: But you compared it to Schottenheimer in Cleveland. Playoff wins are playoff wins. I don't care who they are against. Marvin Lewis went 0-7 in the playoffs. It didn't matter what seed the Bengals were. The Bengals lost to 6 seeds a few times LOL. Pretend that if you want, but to me it’s ridiculous. But speaking of seeding, it does seem to matter to McDermott though. He has gotten all 5 of his playoff wins against 5th-7th seeds. All 6 losses came against 1st-4th seeds. Which does bring up a difference. At least Schottenheimer lost to teams that made the SB. The teams that McDermott’s Bills have lost to are yet to even make it there (though KC would change that this season if they beat the Ravens). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 28 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: LOL. Pretend that if you want, but to me it’s ridiculous. But speaking of seeding, it does seem to matter to McDermott though. He has gotten all 5 of his playoff wins against 5th-7th seeds. All 6 losses came against 1st-4th seeds. Which does bring up a difference. At least Schottenheimer lost to teams that made the SB. The teams that McDermott’s Bills have lost to are yet to even make it there (though KC would change that this season if they beat the Ravens). Ok. And again, I just gave a perfect example of a coach that went 0-7 in the playoffs who had home games as the 1 seed at times losing to 6 seed and 5 seed teams and you're response is "pretend that if you want". Those 4th, 5th, 6th seeds are better than Marvin Lewis did and they are still playoff wins. You may hate that but it's the truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 5 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said: Ok. And again, I just gave a perfect example of a coach that went 0-7 in the playoffs who had home games as the 1 seed at times losing to 6 seed and 5 seed teams and you're response is "pretend that if you want". Those 4th, 5th, 6th seeds are better than Marvin Lewis did and they are still playoff wins. You may hate that but it's the truth I didn’t compare McDermott to Marvin Lewis, you did. I compared him to Marty Schottenheimer. FWIW I think McDermott is a better HC than Lewis, but that’s a completely different conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 5 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: I didn’t compare McDermott to Marvin Lewis, you did. I compared him to Marty Schottenheimer. FWIW I think McDermott is a better HC than Lewis, but that’s a completely different conversation. My God. Itt's not a Marvin Lewis comparison. You are the one that said "McDermott's playoff wins are only against bottoms seeds". That was you, right? I said a playoff win is a playoff win And when I made the Marvin Lewis example showing that he never won a playoff game no matter who it was you said "pretend that if you want". What I'm trying to say to you is...what do you think Marvin Lewis's response would be if someone asked him if he would have liked at least one playoff win against a 5th or 6th seed, I guarantee he would have have gladly taken it. McDermott already has a bunch. That means something. A playoff win is a playoff win. I think it's great that you devalue any playoff win, though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 Just now, Buffalo03 said: My God. Itt's not a Marvin Lewis comparison. You are the one that said "McDermott's playoff wins are only against bottoms seeds". That was you, right? I said a playoff win is a playoff win And when I made the Marvin Lewis example showing that he never won a playoff game no matter who it was you said "pretend that if you want". What I'm trying to say to you is...what do you think Marvin Lewis's response would be if someone asked him if he would have liked at least one playoff win against a 5th or 6th seed, I guarantee he would have have gladly taken it. McDermott already has a bunch. That means something. A playoff win is a playoff win. I think it's great that you devalue any playoff win, though. My point is that nothing changes because Marvin Lewis is a god awful playoff coach. A win against Skyler Thompson in the playoffs isn’t the same as one against Mahomes. I don’t know what to tell you if you think they’re equivalent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 1 minute ago, BarleyNY said: My point is that nothing changes because Marvin Lewis is a god awful playoff coach. A win against Skyler Thompson in the playoffs isn’t the same as one against Mahomes. I don’t know what to tell you if you think they’re equivalent. I never said that they were really equal but a playoff win is STILL a playoff win. Should we have lost to Mason Rudolph because it wasn't Mahomes? As if beating Rudolph somehow doesn't really mean anything? And who the hell knows what we do with a healthy defense last week. No Benford, No Bernard. Rasul not at 100% that makes a difference also. It's not necessarily an excuse but it was part of it. If he had a fully healthy defense and still lost then I think the criticism is more valid. And you are probably one of the "every team has injuries" guy. How many have 3 or 4 to big name players on one side of the ball. Again, as I said about Schottenheimer. A couple of McDermott's losses have been bad luck. This year with injuries, last year the Damar thing which took a lot out of the team. There are no excuses for 13 seconds or the Championship game. But it's not ALL coaching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 1 minute ago, Buffalo03 said: I never said that they were really equal but a playoff win is STILL a playoff win. Should we have lost to Mason Rudolph because it wasn't Mahomes? As if beating Rudolph somehow doesn't really mean anything? And who the hell knows what we do with a healthy defense last week. No Benford, No Bernard. Rasul not at 100% that makes a difference also. It's not necessarily an excuse but it was part of it. If he had a fully healthy defense and still lost then I think the criticism is more valid. And you are probably one of the "every team has injuries" guy. How many have 3 or 4 to big name players on one side of the ball. Again, as I said about Schottenheimer. A couple of McDermott's losses have been bad luck. This year with injuries, last year the Damar thing which took a lot out of the team. There are no excuses for 13 seconds or the Championship game. But it's not ALL coaching Do you think that Schottenheimer wouldn’t have padded his playoff stats with wins against Mason Rudolph or Skyler Thompson? But he didn’t get the chance because those teams didn't make the playoffs during his time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 (edited) 11 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Do you think that Schottenheimer wouldn’t have padded his playoff stats with wins against Mason Rudolph or Skyler Thompson? But he didn’t get the chance because those teams didn't make the playoffs during his time. He definitely may have. We don't know. My point is I know of 4 Schottenheimer losses, the drive, the fumble, Lynn Elliott missing the field goal in the closing seconds to beat the Colts in 95 to play the Steelers in the Championship game, the Marlon McCree game. Those all look bad on Schottenheimer and he gets ridiculed for it. Imagine if McDermott got to the championship game or divisional every year and lost but every time it was a missed kick by his kicker in the closing seconds, a fumble by James Cook at the goal line, an INT by one of our defensive backs that instead of going down chooses not to and fumbles and the other team recovers. The narrative of him would still be "he can't win the big one". The McDermott hate at times is ridiculous Edited January 28 by Buffalo03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 20 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Do you think that Schottenheimer wouldn’t have padded his playoff stats with wins against Mason Rudolph or Skyler Thompson? But he didn’t get the chance because those teams didn't make the playoffs during his time. I mean he lost to Matt Schaub, TJ Yates, the Sanchize and a game in which Landry Jones played QB for a chunk of the 2nd half. Not like he lost to a ton of great QBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 2 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said: He definitely may have. We don't know. My point is I know of 4 Schottenheimer losses, the drive, the fumble, Lynn Elliott missing the field goal in the closing seconds to beat the Colts in 95 to play the Steelers in the Championship game, the Marlon McCree game. Those all look bad on Schottenheimer and he gets ridiculed for it. Imagine if McDermott got to the championship game or divisional every year and lost but every time it was a missed kick by his kicker in the closing seconds, a fumble by James Cook at the goal line, an INT by one of our defensive backs that instead of going down chooses not to and fumbles and the other team recovers. The narrative of him would still be "he can't win the big one". The McDermott hate at times is ridiculous The “McDermott hate” whine is very weak sauce. If that’s all you got, then you’ve got nothing. I certainly don’t hate McDermott. I think he did a great job turning the Bills team around. But this team has come up short too many times under him and he’s made too many mistakes in at least some of those big games with the Bills. A championship not going to happen here with him at the helm. Both sides have a much better chance at success if they part ways. 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I mean he lost to Matt Schaub, TJ Yates, the Sanchize and a game in which Landry Jones played QB for a chunk of the 2nd half. Not like he lost to a ton of great QBs. True. Though I was specifically addressing his time in Cleveland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 4 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: True. Though I was specifically addressing his time in Cleveland. Sorry my mistake I was talking Marvin Lewis. Schotty in San Diego lost to the Sanchize and Pennington (bad) and then to Ben, Brady and Manning (all of which he was outmanned at QB). I'd have to look at Cleveland. Before my time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 5 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: The “McDermott hate” whine is very weak sauce. If that’s all you got, then you’ve got nothing. I certainly don’t hate McDermott. I think he did a great job turning the Bills team around. But this team has come up short too many times under him and he’s made too many mistakes in at least some of those big games with the Bills. A championship not going to happen here with him at the helm. Both sides have a much better chance at success if they part ways. True. Though I was specifically addressing his time in Cleveland. Lol. You think I got nothing. The comparison to Schottenheimer that you did is basically showing some form of hate. We all know that a Schottenheimer comparison isn't a good thing. Yes, SOME of what McDermott has done in playoff games is coaching and I have acknowledged that. I brought up 13 seconds which was inexcusable and the Championship game when we clearly weren't ready. But people are putting the Loss to the Bengals last year 2 weeks after Lamar almost dies and their head not being in the right spot as part of it as well as an injury depleted defense trying to stop Mahomes with 2nd and 3rd stringers. Yes, they are losses but they aren't in the same category Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 21 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said: Lol. You think I got nothing. The comparison to Schottenheimer that you did is basically showing some form of hate. We all know that a Schottenheimer comparison isn't a good thing. Yes, SOME of what McDermott has done in playoff games is coaching and I have acknowledged that. I brought up 13 seconds which was inexcusable and the Championship game when we clearly weren't ready. But people are putting the Loss to the Bengals last year 2 weeks after Lamar almost dies and their head not being in the right spot as part of it as well as an injury depleted defense trying to stop Mahomes with 2nd and 3rd stringers. Yes, they are losses but they aren't in the same category Excuses are for losers. I’m sick and tired of hearing them. Every team has excuses, but the winners find ways to overcome obstacles. Losers embrace them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, BarleyNY said: Excuses are for losers. I’m sick and tired of hearing them. Every team has excuses, but the winners find ways to overcome obstacles. Losers embrace them. Yep. Winners overcome 4 defensive starters being out and having players that started the year as 3rd stringers playing late in preseason games starting in playoff games. And having a teammate die on the field a couple weeks earlier. They do it all the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cale Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 I appreciate that he is a fellow South Asian brother making it in the NFL. But No thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 4 hours ago, BarleyNY said: The NFL is different too, including more playoff teams now. Most of the teams that McD has padded his playoff stats against (all 6 of his wins are against 5th-7th seeds) wouldn’t even have made it during the 80s when only 5 teams in each conference made it. Maybe McDermott can bee an Andy Reid or Tom Coughlin instead of a Norv Turner or Marty Schottenheimer, but it really doesn’t matter with respect to the Bills or to the comparison I made. That’s because I’m talking about McDermott and the Bills. I watched it once and it’s the same movie, just updated for the 2020s. I agree, McD in the 80's wouldn't work. But the bottom line is he can't beat KC when it matters. And historically his playoff defenses have way underperformed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 28 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said: Yep. Winners overcome 4 defensive starters being out and having players that started the year as 3rd stringers playing late in preseason games starting in playoff games. And having a teammate die on the field a couple weeks earlier. They do it all the time Wasn’t Cincy’s OL a shambles when they beat us a couple years ago? Wasn’t Mahomes hobbled the year before that? Wasn’t KC down 3 points and getting a KO with 13 seconds left? Lotta excuses just sitting there for those teams, but they found a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 On 1/27/2024 at 12:05 PM, JGMcD2 said: This tells me they’re promoting Bobby B If they don't they will more than likely lose him . I think Babich knows what & how McD wants the defense to be, other words more aggressive than when Frazier was running it & having someone like Desai on the squad could be a help we just have to trust those doing the hiring that those people will fit . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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