Einstein Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: You agreed that McDermott could win around 10 games without Allen. So we are talking about just 1 game off of Belicheck's best coaching jobs in history? I was agreeing with the 9 wins part of that range. I have consistently expressed my belief that this team has the potential to win nine games without Allen. That has more to do with Allen than McDermott, though. Coaches truly showcase their skills during the playoffs and in high-pressure situations that demand meticulous attention to detail. But regardless, you're falling into the same trap that many fans fall into (and that's partially my fault for not having the self control to not respond to the obvious Rex comparison). Caring about regular season wins. The only thing I care about is playoff wins (and a Super Bowl). We could be the 9-7 Giants winning the 07 Super Bowl and that would be fine with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 37 minutes ago, Einstein said: I was agreeing with the 9 wins part of that range. I have consistently expressed my belief that this team has the potential to win nine games without Allen. That has more to do with Allen than McDermott, though. Coaches truly showcase their skills during the playoffs and in high-pressure situations that demand meticulous attention to detail. But regardless, you're falling into the same trap that many fans fall into (and that's partially my fault for not having the self control to not respond to the obvious Rex comparison). Caring about regular season wins. The only thing I care about is playoff wins (and a Super Bowl). We could be the 9-7 Giants winning the 07 Super Bowl and that would be fine with me. I do agree that the QB is the most important part but it seems that you only blame coaching for playoff losses. There is so much that goes into a game, stuff that you and I will never, ever know. Who missed the block or assignment or ran the wrong route...fans never know. But if players are turning the ball over and making bonehead mistakes....it seems the coaching gets much more heat. Allen is my favorite all time player but he was poor last post season. But it seems like Allen is teflon to criticism. He had 3 INT's and a lost fumble in 2 playoff games this year. Every win is because of Allen but every loss is because of McDermott, Dorsey and Frazier. That's not an exaggeration to some people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 10 hours ago, PBF81 said: Oh, I finally get it. McD & Co. have proven to be the ones to get us there. So clear now. BTW, there are quite a few coaches absent from your list. Not that it's a surprise that you didn't list them or anything. You McD apologists really need to come up with some new material. 😂 Who is missing from that list that has won a super bowl in the 21st century? You want to go back to the 90s for our HC bc they won a super bowl 25-30 years ago? Lets get Levy in here! Oh wait he didn't win so according to PBF81 he's no good I guess. Mike Shanahan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, What a Tuel said: Who is missing from that list that has won a super bowl in the 21st century? You want to go back to the 90s for our HC bc they won a super bowl 25-30 years ago? Lets get Levy in here! Oh wait he didn't win so according to PBF81 he's no good I guess. Mike Shanahan? Look, I get it, we disagree, you have an agenda. Let's just leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 hour ago, PBF81 said: Look, I get it, we disagree, you have an agenda. Let's just leave it at that. Sounds good. You have an anti McDermott agenda. Let's just leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 14 minutes ago, What a Tuel said: Sounds good. You have an anti McDermott agenda. Let's just leave it at that. If by that you mean that I attribute the lion's share of the issues that this team has to coaching/McD, I suppose that's correct. Most people wouldn't view it that way however. Particularly since most of the country and a good percentage of Bills fans see it the same way. Typically it's the ones that cannot let go of a previously formed position even after evidence that hinders that position enters the picture are the ones with the agenda. Either way, no need to argue, we are accomplishing nothing between you and I. Enjoy the season, here's hoping for a Championship this season!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, PBF81 said: If by that you mean that I attribute the lion's share of the issues that this team has to coaching/McD, I suppose that's correct. Most people wouldn't view it that way however. Particularly since most of the country and a good percentage of Bills fans see it the same way. Typically it's the ones that cannot let go of a previously formed position even after evidence that hinders that position enters the picture are the ones with the agenda. Either way, no need to argue, we are accomplishing nothing between you and I. Enjoy the season, here's hoping for a Championship this season!! Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, PBF81 said: If by that you mean that I attribute the lion's share of the issues that this team has to coaching/McD, I suppose that's correct. Most people wouldn't view it that way however. Particularly since most of the country and a good percentage of Bills fans see it the same way. Typically it's the ones that cannot let go of a previously formed position even after evidence that hinders that position enters the picture are the ones with the agenda. Either way, no need to argue, we are accomplishing nothing between you and I. Enjoy the season, here's hoping for a Championship this season!! According to buffalo rumblings web poll, you're wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, What a Tuel said: Lol That's your first clue. 23 minutes ago, The Wiz said: According to buffalo rumblings web poll, you're wrong. I'm wrong? Seems like that depends upon whether or not a "good percentage of Bills' fans" is nearly a third. I guess we can get caught up on semantics, but otherwise about 30% seems like a decent number. Have you read the comments on the threads at say PFT? They're quite the opposite and reflect the national football community, aka sans homers. So no, I don't think that's wrong at all. Frankly I could give a crap about whether I'm personally right or wrong, Go Bills, but it's ridiculous to think that there's not more heat than not on McD regarding both this as well as the situation in general here. But feel free to be right. Doesn't bother me. I'll even admit it, sure, you're right. I'm wrong. LOL Far too many people here concerned with "being right" rather than simply arguing the points in cordial discussion. SMH BTW, according to a poll here just over a week ago, over 50% seem to think that this is or should be make-or-break year for him, indicative that to date he hasn't cut it. Keep in mind that these polls are on fan sites that have a preponderance of homers and defensive apologists otherwise. I'm guessing that a poll in the Buffalo News might be different, but either way, 30-50% still seems like "a decent number" to me. Edited June 23, 2023 by PBF81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, PBF81 said: I'm wrong? Seems like that depends upon whether or not a "good percentage of Bills' fans" is nearly a third. I guess we can get caught up on semantics, but otherwise about 30% seems like a decent number. Have you read the comments on the threads at say PFT? They're quite the opposite and reflect the national football community, aka sans homers. So no, I don't think that's wrong at all. Frankly I could give a crap about whether I'm personally right or wrong, Go Bills, but it's ridiculous to think that there's not more heat than not on McD regarding both this as well as the situation in general here. But feel free to be right. Doesn't bother me. I'll even admit it, sure, you're right. I'm wrong. LOL Far too many people here concerned with "being right" rather than simply arguing the points in cordial discussion. SMH I never said I was right. Just pointing out that the statement that a good percentage of bills fans being 29% is actually probably right where I would expect it to be. You call people homers and other people are called doubters regarding his coaching ability. The reality is there is about 10% on both sides that are in the "you can never change my mind because I'm right". Most people are normal enough to not have the hubris to totally deny something and are willing to have the discussions. However, you are talking about an online forum where the hubris is extended quite a bit (both negatively and positively). I have my own opinions about McDermott that probably range in that same percentage 71% positive, 29% negative. In that range of his coaching ability, I am willing to accept the negative percentage because of the value he has brought to a team that was in purgatory for damn near 2 decades. There will possibly be a time when that percentage shifts more toward the negative and I will likely be right behind you with how others feel about him. Until that time comes though, you can say it's "homerish" or whatever you want to call it, but supporting a coach that has been winning and setting your team up to be in the playoffs 5/6 years of coaching? You can't deny he has something going right and just need to make that extra move to get the playoffs right also. Also, would like the PFT link if you would so I can read the comments. Thanks 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, The Wiz said: I never said I was right. Just pointing out that the statement that a good percentage of bills fans being 29% is actually probably right where I would expect it to be. You call people homers and other people are called doubters regarding his coaching ability. The reality is there is about 10% on both sides that are in the "you can never change my mind because I'm right". Most people are normal enough to not have the hubris to totally deny something and are willing to have the discussions. However, you are talking about an online forum where the hubris is extended quite a bit (both negatively and positively). I have my own opinions about McDermott that probably range in that same percentage 71% positive, 29% negative. In that range of his coaching ability, I am willing to accept the negative percentage because of the value he has brought to a team that was in purgatory for damn near 2 decades. There will possibly be a time when that percentage shifts more toward the negative and I will likely be right behind you with how others feel about him. Until that time comes though, you can say it's "homerish" or whatever you want to call it, but supporting a coach that has been winning and setting your team up to be in the playoffs 5/6 years of coaching? You can't deny he has something going right and just need to make that extra move to get the playoffs right also. Also, would like the PFT link if you would so I can read the comments. Thanks 👍 I'm not calling anyone anything, just pointing out that homers outweigh non-homers typically in team forums, of any team, not merely here. As to PFT, just go to the Bills page and look at the threads with things that reflect on coaching, you'll see a majority of criticism from people that obviously aren't Bills fans. And honestly, look at the national media, it seems as if every few days someone posts a piece that's critical of us, to complain about, including McD, it's hardly a rarity these days. The mood of the national media is that McD is anything but secure. Also, like I've said, let the season play out, I have a strong hunch that the mood & narrative around here is going to be quite a bit different come December or January. But for anyone to suggest that there aren't at least a bunch of loose ends as he enters his 7th season isn't being honest with themselves. Edited June 23, 2023 by PBF81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, PBF81 said: I'm not calling anyone anything, just pointing out that homers outweigh non-homers typically in team forums, of any team, not merely here. As to PFT, just go to the Bills page and look at the threads with things that reflect on coaching, you'll see a majority of criticism from people that obviously aren't Bills fans. And honestly, look at the national media, it seems as if every few days someone posts a piece that's critical of us, including McD, it's hardly a rarity these days. The mood of the national media is that McD is anything but secure. Also, like I've said, let the season play out, I have a strong hunch that the mood & narrative around here is going to be quite a bit different come December or January. But for anyone to suggest that there aren't at least a bunch of loose ends as he enters his 7th season isn't being honest with themselves. I answer each bolded in order: Are you referring to twitter or their website because they don't do threads or forums on their site. At least none that I can find so they are either hidden or you have to pay for them to get access so I would like a link in this case. The national media is doing what they do, could it be something, yes. Are they possibly making a bigger deal out of something that could have been handled better, also yes. Taking the word of people in the national media that are paid to stir up controversy and turmoil is the far end of the spectrum. Believing everything that McDermott says is the other end. I'll sit my ass right in the middle and wait to see what ends up happening. The mood and the narrative is going to change in September. 9/11 to be exact. They will either win and everyone will be on cloud 9 or they will lose and everyone will be calling for McDermotts head. That's pretty much SOP on here. As for loose ends, not sure if you are referring to his coaching ability or the team or whatever, specifics would help again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, The Wiz said: I answer each bolded in order: Are you referring to twitter or their website because they don't do threads or forums on their site. At least none that I can find so they are either hidden or you have to pay for them to get access so I would like a link in this case. The national media is doing what they do, could it be something, yes. Are they possibly making a bigger deal out of something that could have been handled better, also yes. Taking the word of people in the national media that are paid to stir up controversy and turmoil is the far end of the spectrum. Believing everything that McDermott says is the other end. I'll sit my ass right in the middle and wait to see what ends up happening. The mood and the narrative is going to change in September. 9/11 to be exact. They will either win and everyone will be on cloud 9 or they will lose and everyone will be calling for McDermotts head. That's pretty much SOP on here. As for loose ends, not sure if you are referring to his coaching ability or the team or whatever, specifics would help again. PFT, the articles that Florio blathers about. You're right, not a forum, but the comments. The comment sections can end being pretty lengthy. I check it out daily just to keep in touch with the rest of the league. I generally only care about us. Frankly, I'm not a big fan of the NFL these days, just us. Loose ends, I simply meant issues related to coaching. As to the bolded above, LOL, you're right. It's pretty funny too watch. The funny thing will be that say we lose to the Jets in week one, I will be relatively stable declaring it was only one game. Unless we lose a bunch of early games during the easier part of our schedule, we'll have to at least let the Divisional order play out. The odds of that happening before week 15 or 16 are slim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 8 hours ago, PBF81 said: PFT, the articles that Florio blathers about. You're right, not a forum, but the comments. The comment sections can end being pretty lengthy. I check it out daily just to keep in touch with the rest of the league. I generally only care about us. Frankly, I'm not a big fan of the NFL these days, just us. Loose ends, I simply meant issues related to coaching. As to the bolded above, LOL, you're right. It's pretty funny too watch. The funny thing will be that say we lose to the Jets in week one, I will be relatively stable declaring it was only one game. Unless we lose a bunch of early games during the easier part of our schedule, we'll have to at least let the Divisional order play out. The odds of that happening before week 15 or 16 are slim. You are taking comment sections of articles as a legitimate take of knowledgeable fans commenting their unbias opinions which are representative of a general consensus regarding McDermott? Come on man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Oops Pegula didn't get the memo that this year is the last straw! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, What a Tuel said: Oops Pegula didn't get the memo that this year is the last straw! I think they must be using the Ignore feature. 🤷♂️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, What a Tuel said: You are taking comment sections of articles as a legitimate take of knowledgeable fans commenting their unbias opinions which are representative of a general consensus regarding McDermott? Come on man. Really? No, I'm taking comment sections as merely one in a myriad of opinions from fans that aren't necessarily Bills fans. Some are biased no doubt, ... unlike any of the opinions of McD apologists here. 🙄 It's this what you have as a strong suit in argument? 😂 Edited June 23, 2023 by PBF81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, PBF81 said: Really? No, I'm taking comment sections as merely one in a myriad of opinions from fans that aren't necessarily Bills fans. Some are biased no doubt, ... unlike any of the opinions of McD apologists here. 🙄 It's this what you have as a strong suit in argument? 😂 My strong suit in argument is to critique your "evidence" of qualified anti McDermott sentiment being based on PFT comment sections. Yes, I'd say thats a fairly strong argument that your opinions on McDermott are baseless and unsupported. Edited June 23, 2023 by What a Tuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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