Zerovoltz Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said: I trust your judgement too. Who are your top 5? What do you consider elite? Roseman McClay (Dallas) ....look at their drafts...consistantly really good. Jerrah botches vet contracts. Lynch (49ers) drafts well enough to overcome some misses in round 1. Veach (KC) Loomis (NO) Good drafter and talent e v a l guy....reckless contract guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: some how they have managed to get out of every bad investment and pick they ever made with out much harm. Meanwhile it feels like the Bills mistakes and bad investments are now going to cost them. did the eagles just get lucky riding the rookie QB contract to two super bowls? nearly every year now it seems at least one of the teams in the Super Bowl has a qb on a rookie contract. It is one of the best ways to build a Super Bowl contender. I mean, yes, they did. But Roseman is also the king of the short term FA deal and was doing the can kick and dummy years deals before they were cool. He is just all around a very good GM. The thing I most value about him is he is unashamedly "build from the trenches". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 10 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said: Wait a minute… you jumped on Beane for trading the pick that became Justin Jefferson for Stefon Diggs… but Roseman is elite despite passing on Justin Jefferson for Jalen Reagor? Cody Ford instead of DK Metcalf but JJ Arcega Whiteside over DK Metcalf is ok? Hopefully Howie is elite, with his entire defense hitting FA, no cap space and Jalen Hurts about to get $50M/year. Luckily I think he is… but his missed are just as bad. No argument that Howie has his mistakes too. I even mentioned it in the post you quoted. But his sheer volume of great decisions outweigh his poor decisions. You could make an arguemnt that he has drafted more high-end plyers in the last 2 drafts than Beane has in all 5 combined (minus Josh Allen). Devonta Smith, Landon Dickerson, Cam Jurgens, Jordan Davis, etc. All in the last 2 drafts. And he has Nakobe Dean waiting in the wings for when his defense leaves in FA (as you mentioned). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said: Roseman McClay (Dallas) ....look at their drafts...consistantly really good. Jerrah botches vet contracts. Lynch (49ers) drafts well enough to overcome some misses in round 1. Veach (KC) Loomis (NO) Good drafter and talent e v a l guy....reckless contract guy. Beane is close....in the top 10 without a doubt. I don't quite understand how much some here are discounting that he did take Allen. That has to count for something. I KNOW that Mayfield and Darnold were off the board, but surely all of you remember all the ridicule the Bills got for making that choice. Mina Kimes anyone? Clearly, at LEAST given the choice of Allen, Lamar and "the other Josh" ...they nailed that. It's FAR AND AWAY the most important part of the equation...and then...they developed him right. Credit for that too! Alot of fanbases are convinced that if their team took Allen, they'd have ruined him. ...just go back to 13 seconds....which was an incredible sequence, that was highly improbable. IF you go on to win the Super Bowl....NO ONE one within 500 miles of Niagra falls is making this rediculous case that Beane isn't a good drafter. He's good. He nailed the most important pick and he's been better than leauge average on many others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: The thing I most value about him is he is unashamedly "build from the trenches". Yes! It was a thing of beauty watching that Philly o-line blow KC off the ball, play after play. By the time the 4th quarter rolled round you could almost see KC's d-line get dejected when it got to 4th and 1 because they knew there was nothing hey could do stop them from converting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Just now, Einstein said: No argument that Howie has his mistakes too. I even mentioned it in the post you quoted. But his sheer volume of great decisions outweigh his poor decisions. You could make an arguemnt that he has drafted more high-end plyers in the last 2 drafts than Beane has in all 5 combined (minus Josh Allen). Devonta Smith, Landon Dickerson, Cam Jurgens, Jordan Davis, etc. All in the last 2 drafts. And he has Nakobe Dean waiting in the wings for when his defense leaves in FA (as you mentioned). Smith 7 overall. Jordan Davis 13th overall. Easier to make those picks...up high. Now...if you want to fault Beane for missing on IOL in round 2....I'll listen to that argument. Jurgens and DIckerson were both highly regarded college Centers who had G experience as well. If you need IOL...round 2 is where you ought to be targeting guys who can help, and not flawed DE's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 Veach in KC too... Nick Bolton, Creed Humphrey, Trey Smith, Trent McDuffie (who I think the Bills wanted), Karlaftis, and Pacheco (who is turning into a stud). All in he last 2 drafts. The two Super Bowl participants this year put on a clinic in the last 2 drafts. We.... well we drafted a player who we admitted was our last 1st round grade and then healthy scratched him at times and generally admitted we didnt know what to do with him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, Einstein said: Yes! It was a thing of beauty watching that Philly o-line blow KC off the ball, play after play. By the time the 4th quarter rolled round you could almost see KC's d-line get dejected when it got to 4th and 1 because they knew there was nothing hey could do stop them from converting. The Bills need to upgrade the offensive line more than they need to do anything else. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefan66 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 On 2/17/2023 at 12:22 PM, Einstein said: Players in red are gone or are presumed to be gone (example: Edmunds is testing free agency and is expected to get way more than the Bills can pay). Also didn't include 2022 picks since its too early to rate them. How do you rate the rest of the draft picks? Here are my ratings: 2018 Allen - elite Edmunds Phillips Teller Mccloud T Johnson - good Proehl 2019 Oliver - average Ford Singletary Knox - average Joseph J Johnson - bad D Johnson Sweeney 2020 Epenesa - backup quality Moss Davis - average Fromm Bass - good Hodgins D Jackson - average (I'm not as down on Dane as some of you) 2021 Rousseau - average Basham - backup quality Brown - backup quality Doyle - backup Stevenson Hamlin - backup quality Wildgoose Anderson And? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 Just now, Zerovoltz said: Smith 7 overall. Jordan Davis 13th overall. Easier to make those picks...up high. Well, yeah... Roseman traded up to get an elite player. We are allowed to do that too. 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: The Bills need to upgrade the offensive line more than they need to do anything else. 100% agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 11 minutes ago, Einstein said: No argument that Howie has his mistakes too. I even mentioned it in the post you quoted. But his sheer volume of great decisions outweigh his poor decisions. You could make an arguemnt that he has drafted more high-end plyers in the last 2 drafts than Beane has in all 5 combined (minus Josh Allen). Devonta Smith, Landon Dickerson, Cam Jurgens, Jordan Davis, etc. All in the last 2 drafts. And he has Nakobe Dean waiting in the wings for when his defense leaves in FA (as you mentioned). Cam Jugens played 40 snaps all season. I liked the pick but who knows what he turns out to be at this stage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGMcD2 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 12 minutes ago, Einstein said: No argument that Howie has his mistakes too. I even mentioned it in the post you quoted. But his sheer volume of great decisions outweigh his poor decisions. You could make an arguemnt that he has drafted more high-end plyers in the last 2 drafts than Beane has in all 5 combined (minus Josh Allen). Devonta Smith, Landon Dickerson, Cam Jurgens, Jordan Davis, etc. All in the last 2 drafts. And he has Nakobe Dean waiting in the wings for when his defense leaves in FA (as you mentioned). Jordan Davis? What exactly did he do this year that makes him a high-end player? Did Jurgens even start a game this year? Nakobe Dean? I mean come on man… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Cam Jugens played 40 snaps all season. I liked the pick but who knows what he turns out to be at this stage? He is gonna be Kelce’s replacement. PFF had him as one of the best rookies in the NFL from his preseason tape. 4 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said: Jordan Davis? What exactly did he do this year that makes him a high-end player? Did Jurgens even start a game this year? Nakobe Dean? I mean come on man… Davis had a great season. And the only reason Jurgens isn’t playing is because he is Kelce’s replacement and the Eagles have an all-pro line. Dean will be starting next year. https://www.si.com/college/georgia/.amp/news/jordan-davis-highest-rated-dl-nfl-philadelphia-eagles Edited February 18, 2023 by Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, Einstein said: He is gonna be Kelce’s replacement. PFF had him as one of the best rookies in the NFL from his preseason tape. Davis had a great season. And the only reason Jurgens isn’t playing is because he is Kelce’s replacement and the Eagles have an all-pro line. https://www.si.com/college/georgia/.amp/news/jordan-davis-highest-rated-dl-nfl-philadelphia-eagles I know that is the plan. But you can't claim it as a success before he gets on the field. And I repeat I liked the pick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 2 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said: YES said this on the day he was drafted and ever since. You do not waste a top 10 asset on a DT. PERIOD. Don't understand this PBM. Jalen Carter is maybe the best player on D in this years draft. He's going 1 or 2. Agree you can expect more from a # 9 pick than we have gotten from Oliver but in his draft year to me Q. Williams was a legit top 10 pick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGMcD2 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 1 minute ago, Einstein said: He is gonna be Kelce’s replacement. PFF had him as one of the best rookies in the NFL from his preseason tape. https://www.si.com/college/georgia/.amp/news/jordan-davis-highest-rated-dl-nfl-philadelphia-eagles Preseason tape... right. He played 40 snaps during the regular season. You can’t claim he’s a high-end pick. Through the first 5 games… finished with a 71 grade (Ed Oliver was 69). He played 26% of their defensive snaps… for reference Kaiir Elam (the guy you’re saying Buffalo didn’t play enough) played 57% of the snaps. Your opinion and perspective has been great so far… this is kind of straying far to prove a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 Just now, JGMcD2 said: Preseason tape... right. He played 40 snaps during the regular season. You can’t claim he’s a high-end pick. Through the first 5 games… finished with a 71 grade (Ed Oliver was 69). He played 26% of their defensive snaps… for reference Kaiir Elam (the guy you’re saying Buffalo didn’t play enough) played 57% of the snaps. You’re right about Jurgens. I guess I just feel that he is going to be great, but you’re right that I can’t prove it yet. As for Davis… think about that. He had a higher grade in his first season than Ed Oliver had in his 4th. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGMcD2 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 6 minutes ago, Einstein said: You’re right about Jurgens. I guess I just feel that he is going to be great, but you’re right that I can’t prove it yet. As for Davis… think about that. He had a higher grade in his first season than Ed Oliver had in his 4th. That’s not my point… you’re arguing Davis is great and upthread that Oliver is average. They graded out nearly identical. Sure, maybe he progresses and you’re right… but as of right now it wasn’t high-end by your definition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 8 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said: That’s not my point… you’re arguing Davis is great and upthread that Oliver is average. They graded out nearly identical. Sure, maybe he progresses and you’re right… but as of right now it wasn’t high-end by your definition. And while I am not by any means a PFF hater, when you look at the metrics aside their grading, in 226 snaps he had 1 pressure and 1 tackle for loss. Doesn't mean Davis won't be great. But if the argument against Oliver is lack of game changing plays.... well you might need to wait to see Davis make some before hailing him as a difference maker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: And while I am not by any means a PFF hater, when you look at the metrics aside their grading, in 226 snaps he had 1 pressure and 1 tackle for loss. Doesn't mean Davis won't be great. But if the argument against Oliver is lack of game changing plays.... well you might need to wait to see Davis make some before hailing him as a difference maker. Davis plays 1 tech, so it makes sense that he doesn’t make game changing plays. He is clogging lanes. Oliver doesn’t have that excuse. He has had plenty of time at 3T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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