pkwwjd Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 It could just be that he doesn't consider Leia a viable option. Why? I don't know. Besides, there's no guarantee that that line is about Leia. Yoda could've been talking about Anakin. 341138[/snapback] I truly think that it is about Anakin, ultimately. Remember, he was the one who would bring balance to the force & destroy the Sith. He does that in ROTJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 I concur 340846[/snapback] You read this far into a thread about a movie you think sucks, to add "I concur"? Pete, feel the Force. Go outside and take a walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 I just realized that with all the abbrevions for the Star Wars chapters, this will not look good. In order: TPM AOTC ROTS ANH TESB ROTJ Sorry, I could not resist. Babyrock is coming home from Brooklyn and asked me to go see ROTS with her tomorrow. May you all be blessed with kids who are Bills fans and look forward to going to see movies like the X-Men, LOTR, and Star Wars with you when they grow up. When I was young, the first SF movie that reallly got to me was The Day the Earth Stood Still. It was on the Friday late movie on TV. In the theatres, the first SF movie that blew me away was the first Planet of the Apes - the ending rocked (the sequels sucked)! Later it was 2001: A Space Odyssey - how could you lose with Stanley Kubrick and Arthur C. Clarke? It was not until Lucas did Star Wars that another SF movie really hit the right chords within me. There were times I laughed out loud at the dramatic comedy of it all. A combination of Flash Gordon, Errol Flynn, and unbelievable special effects in a true space opera. TESB and ROTJ were not bad. Tomorrow will be fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 I am not big into Star Wars so do not know the whole story. To me it appeared that Lucas tried to create some paralell to GW and American foreign policy to the Stiths. Not even in a clever way- very overt.....Michael Moore loves this film I am certain 340844[/snapback] Pete, I love ya, but you are missing the bigger picture. The original episodes evoked a lot of the angst over Vietnam (by Lucas's own admission). That was the war he was parrelling (although that isn't his sole purpose in making the films at all...it's just one of the many influences). Episodes I and II were about setting up how this conflict arose, about how democracy erroded into an empire (again, with his influence clearly drawn from WWII and more importantly Vietnam). You can certainly interpret Episode III to be a knock against the war in Iraq, but this was set in motion long before GW even made it to office. History has a tendencey to repeat itself (I am NOT taking a political stance here), and in a recent interview Lucas said that he knew people would think he was trying to send up GW, but it was still about the Vietnam war...not modern politics. Although he found it interesting that in a lot of circles, many view the current policies and war as an echo of Vietnam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Did anyone notice the plot flaw involving Obi Wan and his knowledge of Leia? In episode III we see him witness the birth of the twins and then witness the handing over to Bail Organa, but then in ESB or ROTJ (I don't remember which one) Obi wan doesn't know about Leia. He says Luke is their only hope and then Yoda says, "There is another". Is my memory not serving me correctly? Is this or is this not a plot flaw? 341092[/snapback] Obi wan knows about leia, but she isnt as strong in the force as luke is, and they wanted to keep it from luke during training, because luke went dangerously toward the dark side, so the less knowledge he had the better...otherwise he may have betrayed her or tuned her, etc... they wanted as few people to know as possible about the existence of the 2 children, and didnt want them to know of each other...all in the name of protection... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch19079 Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 I truly think that it is about Anakin, ultimately. Remember, he was the one who would bring balance to the force & destroy the Sith. He does that in ROTJ 341155[/snapback] yoda mentioned they may have misunderstood the prophesy. the jedi were more powerful than the sith. why would the jedi WANT to balance it out? it would only mean the death of most of their people, and thats just what Anakin did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF Bills Fan Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 I think Obi-Wan would have forgiven Anakin right up to the point that he was talking with Padme before he strangled her. I think if she had talked sense into him and he had repented and told Obi-Wan he'd go kill the Emporer with him, Obi-Wan would have agreed. He was searchign for any way to forgive him. Once he strangled Padme, Obi-Wan knew he was gone. You wish it wnet the other way, but then we'd have no black mask and it'd be over. Am I overanalyzing? Probably, but I don't care! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 yoda mentioned they may have misunderstood the prophesy. the jedi were more powerful than the sith. why would the jedi WANT to balance it out? it would only mean the death of most of their people, and thats just what Anakin did. 341248[/snapback] I don't agree. What Yoda means is that either 1) they are wrong about the prophecy and Skywalker isn't the "one". or 2) they assumed a Jedi would be the one to bring balance to the force when in reality, it was a Sith who would be the "one". Annakin most certainly does fulfil the prophecy at the end of ROTJ. Even Padme in this one tells Obi-wan that there is still good in him...the same thing Luke says in Jedi. I think you are confusing numbers vs balance. The Jedi aren't more powerful than the Sith in the prequils. There are more Jedi in terms of numbers, but the Sith has always been limited to two: A master and an apprentice. And Palpatine is stronger than any of the Jedi's in the prequil (as evidenced by him defeating Yoda at the end). The balance in the force comes from destroying the Sith (and the darkside). Not from there being an equal number of Jedi and Sith because that has never been the case. Wow, I am a huge nerd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF Bills Fan Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 I think you are confusing numbers vs balance. The Jedi aren't more powerful than the Sith in the prequils. There are more Jedi in terms of numbers, but the Sith has always been limited to two: A master and an apprentice. And Palpatine is stronger than any of the Jedi's in the prequil (as evidenced by him defeating Yoda at the end). Padme almost says that there is still good in him. That was a cool part. Big spolier Mace Windu actually defeats Palpatine. If it weren't for Anakin, Palpatine goes down right there. So I'm not sure if they are necessarily more powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 I think you are confusing numbers vs balance. The Jedi aren't more powerful than the Sith in the prequils. There are more Jedi in terms of numbers, but the Sith has always been limited to two: A master and an apprentice. And Palpatine is stronger than any of the Jedi's in the prequil (as evidenced by him defeating Yoda at the end). Padme almost says that there is still good in him. That was a cool part. Big spolier Mace Windu actually defeats Palpatine. If it weren't for Anakin, Palpatine goes down right there. So I'm not sure if they are necessarily more powerful. 341292[/snapback] Oh I disagree completley. Palpatine was playing coy...he threw the fight to get Annakin to turn. As soon as Anakin flipped, Palpatine jumped up all fine and dandy. It was part of his plan. Yoda couldn't beat him, not even Luke could in ROTJ. Only Vader could...because he as the chosen one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF Bills Fan Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Oh I disagree completley. Palpatine was playing coy...he threw the fight to get Annakin to turn. As soon as Anakin flipped, Palpatine jumped up all fine and dandy. It was part of his plan. Yoda couldn't beat him, not even Luke could in ROTJ. Only Vader could...because he as the chosen one 341299[/snapback] OK. I can see where that is a very plausible theory. He did seem to be faking. But I think Windu had a brief opportunity to end it. Perhaps Palpatine was willing to take an all for broke risk that he would be saved by Anakin? Too bad Obi-Wan ddin't get a crack at Palpatine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch19079 Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 The balance in the force comes from destroying the Sith (and the darkside). Not from there being an equal number of Jedi and Sith because that has never been the case. Wow, I am a huge nerd. 341281[/snapback] so "balance" is having the jedi having all the power, and no sith opposing them? sounds kinda one sided... the only way you can have "balance" and still have a powerfull jedi, is to have a sith opposing him. and it was balanced in the old movies cus a master and aprentice. the emperor and darth vs yoda and obiwan, and eventually yoda and luke, till the final movie where darth and the emperor are killed and luke and the sister are left. making it unbalanced again. i also remember the emperor saying that he will soon have an aprentace that in time would become even more powerful than himself. so i think darth is the chosen one, and balanced the force by killing most of the jedi, who had the advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 OK. I can see where that is a very plausible theory. He did seem to be faking. But I think Windu had a brief opportunity to end it. Perhaps Palpatine was willing to take an all for broke risk that he would be saved by Anakin? Too bad Obi-Wan ddin't get a crack at Palpatine. 341308[/snapback] I love how we are all in yellow now:) I just think Palpatine had everything set up from Episode I. He chose Anakin for a reason.In the beginning of Episode III, when Anakin kills Dooku, you could tell it was all a set up (based on Dooku's reaction to Palpatine's line: Kill him). He pushed all the right buttons and knew Annakin would turn to save Padme (by saving Palpatine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 so "balance" is having the jedi having all the power, and no sith opposing them? sounds kinda one sided... the only way you can have "balance" and still have a powerfull jedi, is to have a sith opposing him. and it was balanced in the old movies cus a master and aprentice. the emperor and darth vs yoda and obiwan, and eventually yoda and luke, till the final movie where darth and the emperor are killed and luke and the sister are left. making it unbalanced again. i also remember the emperor saying that he will soon have an aprentace that in time would become even more powerful than himself. so i think darth is the chosen one, and balanced the force by killing most of the jedi, who had the advantage. 341316[/snapback] You're missing the main point. It's not an issue of both the Sith and Jedi being equal. That is not balance as it's used in the movies. The dark side is easier, more seductive and evil. And thus, the entire force is unbalanced by its presence. The Force is supposed to be pure, and used for good. As long as the Sith exist (no matter what their numbers), the Force will never be in "balance". It has nothing to do with numbers. Also, again I say the Jedi in no way had the advantage even if they had more members. They aren't as strong as the darkside. The sith are always 2 and in the mythology the Sith dominated thousands of years ago...even when the Jedi had them out numbered. Yoda, Obi-wan, Mace were not capabable of defeating Darth Sidious. By their own admissions. Thus, how could the Jedi have the advantage? Palpatine needed Darth to kill the jedi to secure his new empire AND complete Anakin's slide to the dark side. In no way did Darth balance the force in Episode III...he tipped the scales even MORE in favor of the Sith. It isn't until the apprentice kills the master in ROTJ that the darkside is destroyed and balance (i.e. purity) is returned to the force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF Bills Fan Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 I love how we are all in yellow now:) I just think Palpatine had everything set up from Episode I. He chose Anakin for a reason.In the beginning of Episode III, when Anakin kills Dooku, you could tell it was all a set up (based on Dooku's reaction to Palpatine's line: Kill him). He pushed all the right buttons and knew Annakin would turn to save Padme (by saving Palpatine). 341317[/snapback] Yeah, Dooku totally got played. Palpatine was a puppet master. How about Greivous and his 4 lightsabres? That was good shite man! Those two starships next to each other firing away at the beginning were awesome too. I'm just starting to replay all this in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch19079 Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Yeah, Dooku totally got played. Palpatine was a puppet master. How about Greivous and his 4 lightsabres? That was good shite man! Those two starships next to each other firing away at the beginning were awesome too. I'm just starting to replay all this in my head. 341331[/snapback] same here. its all replayed over and over. Dooku did get played. but he had to know something was up when the emperor said, "hey i got an idea, kidnap me and let the jedi come and try to rescue me..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Yeah, Dooku totally got played. Palpatine was a puppet master. How about Greivous and his 4 lightsabres? That was good shite man! Those two starships next to each other firing away at the beginning were awesome too. I'm just starting to replay all this in my head. 341331[/snapback] I think this may be my second favorite of all the movies (behind Empire)...maybe third overall (I have a place in my heart for ROTJ simply because it was the first movie I remember seeing in the theaters, so the Ewoks never bugged me:) ) My only complaint about Ep III was that Anakin's final turn (when he takes out Windu) seemed forced. Looking back at the previous two episodes you can see how Palpatine had been setting Anaking up from the start to make this transformation...but still I don't think the story was tight enough because when he finally falls I was kinda like...that's it? But I did like how Palpatine convinced Vadar that he killed Padme (at the end) and then smiled as Vadar freaked out. That cemented his fall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch19079 Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 But I did like how Palpatine convinced Vadar that he killed Padme (at the end) and then smiled as Vadar freaked out. That cemented his fall...[/color] 341338[/snapback] i liked how the first thing he said when in the mask was "what of padme, is she alright??" you NEVER hear darth say ANYTHING like that in the other movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF Bills Fan Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 same here. its all replayed over and over. Dooku did get played. but he had to know something was up when the emperor said, "hey i got an idea, kidnap me and let the jedi come and try to rescue me..." 341336[/snapback] Yeah, I think I would have gotten wise there, myself. Greivous was set up too as were the trade dudes. I think we all forgot the fact that Jar Jar was in for 1 second. I had forgotten he existed until that part. Bravo to Lucas for really bowing to the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch19079 Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 I think we all forgot the fact that Jar Jar was in for 1 second. I had forgotten he existed until that part. Bravo to Lucas for really bowing to the fans. 341341[/snapback] LOL, in the theater, as soon as he showed on screen, (not saying a word, just standing there) the WHOLE audience was like AWW GODDAMN IT!!!!!! we were expecting him to jump around and be annoying, and screw up the movie.... THANK GOD THAT DID NOT HAPPEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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