John from Riverside Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 This is great and all, but the problem is......the LB spot in the NFL is probably the most easy to find good players. It would be a lot nicer to have the best D-Line, O-Line, TE's or something like that. 339513[/snapback] By the time this season is over we MAY have our D Line up there..... A lot of factors go into the production of a defensive line...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 We may not have the very best, but there cannot be more than 2-3 teams in the league that have a better defensive backfield than Milloy, Vincent, Clements, and McGee either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkwwjd Posted May 18, 2005 Author Share Posted May 18, 2005 If LB is the easiest to find good players, then why did only 5 teams merit an A or A-? Wow, some of you guys really see the glass not only half empty, but see a St. Bernard ready to slop the rest of the water out of that glass. Regarding Posey, my biggest memory of Posey's impact on a game came a couple years ago against Indy. We held the Colts in check for almost the entire game ... until Mr. Posey goes out with an injury. Then Indy comes back and wins it in the last few minutes. I can't say that Posey is responsible for keeping Manning & Co. in check, but the correlation may point in the direction of his play definitely helping. I definitely think his play is at least above average. He just doesn't get the sexy stats because he's playing the 4-3 instead of the 3-4 he got the sacks with in Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 I'm not sure if I can take the Posey challenge, the reason being that I have no tapes of Bills games and if I did I would be hesitant to subject myself to hours of Posey's turtling. I will however clarify my position somewhat. Watchers such as Simon claim that Posey seemed to turn the wrong way and looked lost out there a significant portion of the time. I've never claimed that he looked lost out there and when I mention him turning his back to the LOS, I'm not referring to him being confused; I'm referring to him being a nambypamby ballplayer who is reluctant to take on people face-up. As far as I'm concerned there is no player on the Bills defense who's easier to block than Posey, and nobody else is really a close second. I keep seeing many a reference to statistics so lets talk about that. He had 1 sack last year. And I'll bet dollars to doughnuts he came unblocked just like he did on the 5 sacks he had the year before. All his sacks as a Bill have been a result of good coaching calls, not by his skill or tenacity. In his two years here I've only seen one single instance where Posey actually beat a blocker to make a stop for a loss and that came in the preseason vs Tennessee. So why didn't he have any sacks (aside from the fact that I could block him w/o spilling my beer)? It must have been because the Bills are dropping him into zones so often. Or maybe not when you consider the fact that in his 2 years here he has had a grand total of 0 passes defended. Maybe it's because his responsibility in the Bills D is primarily to defend his edge against the ground game. Pardon me while I try to stop laughing..... As poor as a pass-rusher as he is and as ineffective as he is in coverage, it frightens me that the weakest part of his game is actually his complete and utter lack of physicality at the POA. If anybody really wants examples of why I want Posey out of the starting line-up more than any other player, just watch a game and see how many times teams run at him when they want a couple guaranteed yards; watch how many times a single TE, halfback or even 190lb slot receiver blocks Posey out of the play and even drives him straight backwards; watch how many tackles he's not in on because he took a bad angle to avoid that scary traffic. If Posey is so good, or above-average, what exactly does he do for this team? He can't rush the passer, he can't cover and he's pathetic vs the groundgame. Last year he had 1 sack, 0 passes defended, 0 forced fumbles and a grand total of 39 tackles. So while opposing offenses worry about neutralizing 5 great football players like SamAdams,PhatPat,Takeo,Fletcher and Milloy (not to mention the underrated Schobel), how does Posey take advantage of the constant singleteams he's getting from measly TE's, halfbacks and #3receivers? He forces no turnovers, registers no tackles for losses and racks up a whopping 2.4 tackles per game. I don't really care so much if his sack numbers are low, or he doesn't get any picks or isn't good enough to force turnovers. If he would just nut up and simply do his job when teams run to his side (which they do frequently), then I'll never pick on him again. All I'm asking is for the guy to play to a stalemate instead of getting his ass kicked all over the field every week. He doesn't even have to actually do anything, just hold his ground. Is that really so much to ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 So while opposing offenses worry about neutralizing 5 great football players like SamAdams,PhatPat,Takeo,Fletcher and Milloy (not to mention the underrated Schobel), how does Posey take advantage of the constant singleteams he's getting from measly TE's, halfbacks and #3receivers? He forces no turnovers, registers no tackles for losses and racks up a whopping 2.4 tackles per game. I don't really care so much if his sack numbers are low, or he doesn't get any picks or isn't good enough to force turnovers. If he would just nut up and simply do his job when teams run to his side (which they do frequently), then I'll never pick on him again. All I'm asking is for the guy to play to a stalemate instead of getting his ass kicked all over the field every week. He doesn't even have to actually do anything, just hold his ground. Is that really so much to ask? 339784[/snapback] He's played two years here. In his first year he forced more turnovers than your playmaker Nate. Two were returned for touchdowns and one of his 5.5 sacks should have been a touchdown but was only a safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 In his first year he forced more turnovers than your playmaker Nate. In their two years here together Posey has created a total of 5 turnovers while Clements has created a total of at least 15 . Considering that Posey is around the ball about 10 times more than Clements(or is supposed to be anyways), don't you think those numbers maybe ought to be reversed? And I re-iterate that if Posey just does nothing more than the barest essentials of his job, I'll leave him alone. Really. Cya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 This is great and all, but the problem is......the LB spot in the NFL is probably the most easy to find good players. It would be a lot nicer to have the best D-Line, O-Line, TE's or something like that. 339513[/snapback] What do you mean? Easy to find good players......... have you watched the draft the last 5 years, theres no linbackers that are good every single year..... dont say thats its easy to find good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 In their two years here together Posey has created a total of 5 turnovers while Clements has created a total of at least 15 . Considering that Posey is around the ball about 10 times more than Clements(or is supposed to be anyways), don't you think those numbers maybe ought to be reversed?And I re-iterate that if Posey just does nothing more than the barest essentials of his job, I'll leave him alone. Really. Cya 339802[/snapback] Just jerkin' your chain because you said he doesn't force turnovers and he led the team in forced turnovers his first year. And no, I wouldn't expect a reactive LB who plays 2/3 of the downs to force more turnovers than a gambling DB who plays them all. I just think Posey is steady and he doesn't get killed and I would bet you that Jerry Gray and MM and TD think he's pretty darn good and they're happy with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I have taken the Posey challenge with you and Simon both, FFS and on more than one occasion. And if you remember I support him as a solid player who is producing at the level of expectation that was likely placed upon him by the people that matter. It makes for an intersting debate always but I don't feel the need to spew on with what you may have already read... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyDingo Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 The good news is we have what Sporting News considers the best LB corp in the NFL. The bad news is we're about to pair that LB corp with an offense using a new, unproven quarterback. I look forward to when we have all of these positions at a high level at the same time. A three-legged dog can't run very fast. 339536[/snapback] A three legged dog runs fine if you keep kicking it in the ass and yelling at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 exactly, the team is about having players, not all superstars...posey is a solid linebacker, and while hes not razzle dazzle, hes there, play after play, making the stops when he should...he does what hes supposed to, and removing that type of player from the team would definitely hurt...plus, our LB corps will be even stonger this year as its their 3rd year playing together...and you cant say enough about team chemistry... 339589[/snapback] he reminds me of sam rogers in terms of his production, but he's not as good in coverage. he's better at getting upfield towards the qb, though, notwithstanding the lack of sacks last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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