Public Housing. When, why?

[Niagara Bill]

After reading about our new budget jn Canada, I was brought to refect about the promise for new public housing.

I know that many many cities in Canada and US have public housing. 

When did this start? Why does government want to own housing?

Obviously a left agenda, but does it work.

Every effort in this regard seems to eventually end up to be impoverished neighborhoods, crime ridden, run terribly by a public organization, policing problems and safety issues. Even right mayor's accept this phenomenon.

This never seems to be an election issue on the right yet the dollars are poorly spent.

Any comments?

[Westside]

17 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

After reading about our new budget jn Canada, I was brought to refect about the promise for new public housing.

I know that many many cities in Canada and US have public housing. 

When did this start? Why does government want to own housing?

Obviously a left agenda, but does it work.

Every effort in this regard seems to eventually end up to be impoverished neighborhoods, crime ridden, run terribly by a public organization, policing problems and safety issues. Even right mayor's accept this phenomenon.

This never seems to be an election issue on the right yet the dollars are poorly spent.

Any comments?

In my opinion, the poor really have no one to represent them. The left claims to care, but after elections are over, right back to ignoring them again.

 

Also, lack of respect by the tenants to the place they live let it turn into a dumpster. 
 

There is no easy answer, the blame is spread over a lot of people. 

[Niagara Bill]

Seems to be locations privide more than their share of crime suspects, drug users and education shortfalls. That is not to say that many do not succeed, but a higher percentage of failure.

I am surprised that a political party cannot be honest enough to face this.

Often these locales have their own cultures, which do not run parallel to much of the rest of the city.

They also seems to take an increasing percentage of municipal and state/ provincial budgets. No government should be a landlord. 

It is unsustainable. 

 

 

[Tiberius]

Have to

have housing for our citizens. Housing policy is one of the most frustrating things to get done. Public policy experts in this field have learned a lot from failures of the past. Architecture plays a big role, those big multi-story ugly building projects are a big failure as they allow congregations of young people to gather. Smaller, family sized apartments of single story are the best. 
 

But, anyone who builds a house helps everyone. 
 

 

[SoCal Deek]

16 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Have to

have housing for our citizens. Housing policy is one of the most frustrating things to get done. Public policy experts in this field have learned a lot from failures of the past. Architecture plays a big role, those big multi-story ugly building projects are a big failure as they allow congregations of young people to gather. Smaller, family sized apartments of single story are the best. 
 

But, anyone who builds a house helps everyone. 
 

 

Don’t blame the architect. I don’t decide how many units are required per acre. That’s dictated by the government/ client. Making the budgetary math work on these sort of projects is VERY difficult. In general these are not designed to be long term residential solutions. 

[Tiberius]

11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Don’t blame the architect. I don’t decide how many units are required per acre. That’s dictated by the government/ client. Making the budgetary math work on these sort of projects is VERY difficult. In general these are not designed to be long term residential solutions. 

No, the design makes a difference 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

No, the design makes a difference 

I’m an architect!!!! I know what the heck design is and does.

[Tiberius]

22 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m an architect!!!! I know what the heck design is and does.

If you are disagreeing with me about this then you are wrong. Maybe you are a bad architect? 

 

Are you saying design does does not matter? 

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Tiberius said:

If you are disagreeing with me about this then you are wrong. Maybe you are a bad architect? 

 

Are you saying design does does not matter? 

Tibs: Another resident internet expert. No…I lecture all over the country on design…and yes it matters. What I said is that the scope and budget parameters of a government housing project are not established by the Architect. The architect is given a density, a budget, and all sorts of maintenance and material requirements that must be met. The architect takes those parameters and makes the project BETTER, not worse. Good design can do wonders, but it has its limits 

[Chef Jim]

34 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m an architect!!!! I know what the heck design is and does.

 
Art Vandelay?  Is that you? 
 

I would ask you, being an architect, why homeless apartments cost the taxpayer $750k per unit but the architectural design likely has not a damn thing to do with the cost. 😏

[Niagara Bill]

Original question, why do cities become landlords.

Cities gave rules so deep for contractors but all city built properties fail in cultural ways and government has money to burn ( see football stadiums). WTF

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, Niagara Bill said:

Original question, why do cities become landlords.

Cities gave rules so deep for contractors but all city built properties fail in cultural ways and government has money to burn ( see football stadiums). WTF

It’s all about your last point.  They have (our) money to burn and I’ll add buy votes with it. 😏

[Niagara Bill]

45 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Tibs: Another resident internet expert. No…I lecture all over the country on design…and yes it matters. What I said is that the scope and budget parameters of a government housing project are not established by the Architect. The architect is given a density, a budget, and all sorts of maintenance and material requirements that must be met. The architect takes those parameters and makes the project BETTER, not worse. Good design can do wonders, but it has its limits 

Of course design is important, size of hallways, parking, green, doorways, outdoor space, balcony, lighting, direction, window size, colors. 

[Orlando Tim]

To the OP: it started in the New Deal, at least in US, and was on the face to protect people who could not find housing on their own. As always once the government gets involved cost skyrocket and efficiency dies. 

[Niagara Bill]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

To the OP: it started in the New Deal, at least in US, and was on the face to protect people who could not find housing on their own. As always once the government gets involved cost skyrocket and efficiency dies. 

Worse, they gave created a culture that society has to come to grips with. 

Time fir government to get out of housing. That is Communism, 

[SoCal Deek]

31 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

Of course design is important, size of hallways, parking, green, doorways, outdoor space, balcony, lighting, direction, window size, colors. 

Most lay people don’t know it but in many, if not all, public housing projects most of the things on your list are dictated by the contracting office. The ‘design’ architect has very little freedom. Sad really, but it’s done that way to control costs and establish standards. 

[Niagara Bill]

13 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Most lay people don’t know it but in many, if not all, public housing projects most of the things on your list are dictated by the contracting office. The ‘design’ architect has very little freedom. Sad really, but it’s done that way to control costs and establish standards. 

I understand your point, which is exactly why government should get out of the shoe box housing business, or be creative. I know that tax payers would scream at good design, but without it the cultural creations we have will only grow. Self sustaining poverty, crime, and drug dens. How stupid we are. 

Do small cities have similar problems?

 

[SoCal Deek]

45 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

I understand your point, which is exactly why government should get out of the shoe box housing business, or be creative. I know that tax payers would scream at good design, but without it the cultural creations we have will only grow. Self sustaining poverty, crime, and drug dens. How stupid we are. 

Do small cities have similar problems?

 

These issues are not unique. The biggest difference is that the bigger the population, the higher the density. With higher density there are challenges in design that don’t exist in lower density projects. Publicly funded and subsidized housing is no different from private housing. It comes down to money, creativity, and space. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by SoCal Deek

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, Niagara Bill said:

Worse, they gave created a culture that society has to come to grips with. 

Time fir government to get out of housing. That is Communism, 

Is it me or have you moved further to the right lately?  

[ALF]

1 hour ago, Niagara Bill said:

Worse, they gave created a culture that society has to come to grips with. 

Time fir government to get out of housing. That is Communism, 

 

So your solution is massive homelessness ?   Niagara Bill tells California to hold my beer.

[Niagara Bill]

44 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Is it me or have you moved further to the right lately?  

I have always been fiscal conservative. Never left, often centrist. I hate religious interloping into politics, I hate religious hypocrites of the far right, I believe in freedom, including freedom of women to choose. I  I believe in helping my neighbor, I think LGBQ Yada Yada is ok. I believe in equality, hate racism, hate BLM. 

43 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

So your solution is massive homelessness ?   Niagara Bill tells California to hold my beer.

Not talking solution, not that smart, but public housing creates more issues than it solves. Do you have solutions to the public housing issues? Would you live there and feel safe.

[ALF]

49 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

I have always been fiscal conservative. Never left, often centrist. I hate religious interloping into politics, I hate religious hypocrites of the far right, I believe in freedom, including freedom of women to choose. I  I believe in helping my neighbor, I think LGBQ Yada Yada is ok. I believe in equality, hate racism, hate BLM. 

Not talking solution, not that smart, but public housing creates more issues than it solves. Do you have solutions to the public housing issues? Would you live there and feel safe.

 

Housing Choice Vouchers Fact Sheet

The housing choice voucher program is the federal government's major program for assisting very low-income families, the elderly, and the disabled to afford decent, safe, and sanitary housing in the private market. Since housing assistance is provided on behalf of the family or individual, participants are able to find their own housing, including single-family homes, townhouses and apartments.

 

https://www.hud.gov/topics/housing_choice_voucher_program_section_8

[Niagara Bill]

40 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

Housing Choice Vouchers Fact Sheet

The housing choice voucher program is the federal government's major program for assisting very low-income families, the elderly, and the disabled to afford decent, safe, and sanitary housing in the private market. Since housing assistance is provided on behalf of the family or individual, participants are able to find their own housing, including single-family homes, townhouses and apartments.

 

https://www.hud.gov/topics/housing_choice_voucher_program_section_8

Ok, so you can read a US government doc, the rest of the world exists as well. The question is should government be in the housing business, be landowners and landlords. Seems rather communistic. It has been a failure and produced a culture that has led to racism, drug dependence, crime,  poor education etc.

How did we all get here? Should we get out of the business? 

I say yes, get out.

What say you?

[ALF]

10 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

Ok, so you can read a US government doc, the rest of the world exists as well. The question is should government be in the housing business, be landowners and landlords. Seems rather communistic. It has been a failure and produced a culture that has led to racism, drug dependence, crime,  poor education etc.

How did we all get here? Should we get out of the business? 

I say yes, get out.

What say you?

 

Housing Choice Vouchers , if they break the law or abuse private housing they lose that voucher.

 

Stop calling the US a communist country. At least we keep trying to find solutions.

[Niagara Bill]

10 hours ago, ALF said:

 

Housing Choice Vouchers , if they break the law or abuse private housing they lose that voucher.

 

Stop calling the US a communist country. At least we keep trying to find solutions.

1. Government will never enforce rules. The have rules today and ignore them, including limited term limits in the buildings and 20 yrs later people still there.

2. In efforts to help, dome programs such as public housing are communistic in nature. All western cultures have tendencies this way. If not communistic then socialistic. (Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac).

I do not think any of us try to solve this issue, but the unintended fall out of a cultural nature is doing damage.