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Reviewing Beane


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11 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

You may be talking about another poster, but to be clear, I never said that. 

 

 

And I definitely did not say that.

 

This whole forum would really benefit from one semester of reading comprehension.

To your last sentence:

This whole forum?!?!? Really?!?! You're grouping everyone into this idea you have that we can't comprehend your words.

I take offense and say, go screw yourself!

 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, gobills404 said:

QB - Bills. No debate.

RB - Titans. No debate.

WR - Bills. No debate.

TE - Bills. Unless Hooper starts playing like he did in Atlanta.

O Line - Bills. We finished higher in pass block win rate and identical in run block win rate. Our line was also night and day better the last 6 games with Bates and we stole their pro bowl LG AND their starting RT (Quessenberry).

D Line - Toss up. We finished with a better pass rush win rate, better pressure rate, and a nearly identical sack rate. Titans had a much better run stop win rate. I think the addition of Von will put us over the top but I'll wait until I see it.

LB - Bills. No debate. Zach Cunningham and David Long? Really?

CB - Bills. I'd take Tre White with 2 torn ACLs over Fulton. Molden is a pretty good slot but Taron Johnson is elite. Elam is completely unproven but so are Farley and McCreary.

S - Toss up. I'd give the Bills the slight edge based purely off the last few years, but Hyde and Poyer ain't getting any younger.

 

IMO Bills have the better roster and it's not even close.

 

 

We took their starting offensive linemen who both were bad in pass protection last season… and they didn’t “steal” either of them. Saffold was released and Quessenberry was a FA whom the Titans clearly didn’t want back.

 

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

NFL rosters really are pretty even. QB position is the difference.

This is really the difference between the two teams… and it makes a big difference.

Edited by ScottLaw
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On 1/24/2022 at 3:34 AM, IronMaidenBills said:

We have not drafted enough high end talent. 

 

Edmunds rd 1

Basham rd 2

Epenesa rd 2

Ford rd 2

Moss rd 3 

Oliver rd 1 

Rousseau rd 1 

 

Have all underperformed their draft statuses thus far IMO. Especially Ford and Moss. 

 

I expect more from Edmunds, Oliver, and Rousseau given their rd 1 status. 

On the flip side, Allen, Taron Johnson, Davis, Milano, and Teller all outperformed their draft slots by a considerable margin.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Who did Beane sign that made an impact on 2017? He traded for Kelvin Benjamin who absent 1 play vs the Colts we all agree was a miss. 

 

He made key moves in 2017 that set up what was to come with his trades in the summer that is 100% true so he was already having an impact but the team that made the playoffs in 2017 was a combination of McDermott's guys and what they inherited. 

 

So I do tend towards the 2017 season not really being in Beane's column. And this isn't just a Beane position. I took the same view of 2013 when Whaley took over for Nix post draft. To me that season rightly should sit with Nix. I know that isn't the way the NFL looks at it officially but my take on GMs has always been their W-L should only include seasons where they ran FA and the draft the previous spring. 


Have to very respectfully disagree with you here Gunner.  Beane traded away Watkins, Darby, and Dareus.  Make no mistake about it, a big part of our playoff run in 2017 had to do with a shift in culture.  Coming off a 7 win season, changing the locker room, culture, and mindset can easily result in a few more wins.  It’s why teams fire coaches all the time and change front offices,  because they believe someone else can get more out of the roster and locker room.  
 

And both McD and obviously Beane contributed to that in different ways.  Beane jettisoning guys who were considered part of our core just a year prior that didn’t fit what we wanted to do as a team 100% impacted both the locker room and how the guys came together.  
 

Plus, he made the decisions on the final 53…and decisions like I said that saw us trade what was previously seen as our best offensive player and our young starting DB that was considered a promising player previously.  Then what was at one time considered our best defensive player in Dareus during the season.  
 

And no one disagrees KB overall was a miss, but…that trade did unquestionably help us make the playoffs which was the entire point of the trade when we found ourselves surprisingly in the running for a playoff spot to potentially break the streak.  And that also shows the guys on the field that Beane wasn’t just giving up and cleaning house, but showing he’s willing to put a wrinkle into his rebuild strategy to support and help those guys win now.  Which is something that also goes a long way into the rebuilding of a culture.  
 

So for me, I don’t care that Beane didn’t participate in the draft, he was in here right after the draft and he begun shaping the roster and culture in a lot of ways that surprised people and in ways Whaley would NOT have.  So for anyone to say Beane had no impact on that season is just not something I can agree with and completely over looks the entire role of a GM, which is a lot more than just the draft. 
 

Just the sheer fact he did things Whaley was not ever going to do like trade Watkins, Darby, and Dareus is enough of a reason to see that Beane had some fingerprints on that team.  I mean his moves that year set the entire foundation for our culture and our future.  

Edited by Alphadawg7
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17 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

What would you say the Bills top 2 position groups are?

Safety, qb, wr, DL, LB. Why stop at two?

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17 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Smart choice not answering that.

Here’s the deal: Your opinion of Beane is flawed by any measure. It’s a borderline trolling crusade. 
 

Fact is, Beane is the architect of a roster that is extremely successful. Period. Any dumbass “what if he didn’t draft Allen” scenario is stupid, because he did and has surrounded him with talent on both sides of the ball. 
 

Along with that, he has partnered with other parts of the organization to make sure players are developed and successful. This is just excellent leadership. It is irrefutable. 

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13 minutes ago, todd said:

Here’s the deal: Your opinion of Beane is flawed by any measure. It’s a borderline trolling crusade. 
 

Fact is, Beane is the architect of a roster that is extremely successful. Period. Any dumbass “what if he didn’t draft Allen” scenario is stupid, because he did and has surrounded him with talent on both sides of the ball. 
 

Along with that, he has partnered with other parts of the organization to make sure players are developed and successful. This is just excellent leadership. It is irrefutable. 

What’s asinine about his argument is he takes away the Bills best player for making his point but doesn’t do that for any other team. Since he says Beane is average at best, that means he can name 15 or so better GM’s in the game right now…but when he does that he can’t factor in any decisions made about the QB.


 

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7 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Jeffery Simmons is definitely a machine 

 

I think he is one of the best defensive lineman in the league… not best or top 3 … but top 10 interior lineman

 

I would say definitely top 10 interior lineman.  I don't have him 2nd best overall in the league only behind Aaron Donald....not even close.

9 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

 

Remind me in 6 months.

 

Outside of QB, yes.

 

PFF has the Bills #1 and the Titans #20. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, todd said:

Here’s the deal: Your opinion of Beane is flawed by any measure. It’s a borderline trolling crusade. 
 

Fact is, Beane is the architect of a roster that is extremely successful. Period. Any dumbass “what if he didn’t draft Allen” scenario is stupid, because he did and has surrounded him with talent on both sides of the ball. 
 

Along with that, he has partnered with other parts of the organization to make sure players are developed and successful. This is just excellent leadership. It is irrefutable. 

 

Let’s look at this from another angle. We should all agree QB is the most important position, and we have that one locked up long term. What are the other premium positions? I’d suggest LT, CB, edge rusher and WR.  We have Dawkins locked up. Tre is a star on a relatively fresh deal returning from injury (so we drafted Elam high). We invested heavily in the draft on DE and hope they develop, but since now is our window we signed a guy named Von Miller for immediate impact. We also traded for Diggs and extended him, plus we have Gabe Davis and Knox.

 

Nobody is going to hit on every draft pick or FA. Cherry picking the few things that didn’t go as hoped is a silly way to judge your GM. I like the ROSTER BUILDING starting with key positions they are doing. Identify your key players at key positions and lock them up long term. To say Beane isn’t a very good GM is like  saying Josh is just an OK quarterback. 

 

It seems the whole world agrees that Beane is building a very good football team with the emphasis on the right positions. The whole world….except a couple posters here who seem to relish in the attention of being “contrarians”. 

 

EDIT: Our highest paid players are QB, CB, WR, LT and Edge. The Pats* had two TE’s and a LB as their highest paid players last season. I like our strategy better.  :)

 

 

.

Edited by Augie
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9 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

 

Remind me in 6 months.

 

Outside of QB, yes.

I think it’s close but we still have the better roster… and Allen puts the Bills way over the top due to the heavy weight the QB position carries.

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2 hours ago, BufBills83 said:

Are we really arguing the Titans have a better roster than the Bills?  We're supposed to be Superbowl favorites here.  Get out of here with this nonsense.  How does anyone figure the Titans are better?

 

Because Einstein says so.

 

He has Jeffrey Simmons as the 2nd best defensive player in the league.  He has him better than TJ Watt and Myles Garrett.

 

Einstein lists QB pressures as his evidence for Simmons being the 2nd best defensive player in the league.

How about we just talk sacks.

Since 2019 (Simmons rookie year)

TJ Watt - 51.5 sacks

Garrett - 38

Simmons - 13.5

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

NFL rosters really are pretty even. QB position is the difference.

 

I would say in the top 10, it's pretty even.  But teams at the bottom of the barrel, like the Falcons and Texans...there's a big difference.

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22 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

and Allen puts the Bills way over the top due to the heavy weight the QB position carries.

 

While H2H is not the end-all-be-all, consider that even with Allen (who as you point out is significantly better than Tannehill), we have still lost to that roster twice in a row. 

 

The Titans have a very strong roster. Their safeties are as good as ours, their LB's are better, their D-Line is better, their o-line was better, and their RB is better. The Bills have the edge in QB, WR, and perhaps O-Line now (after this offseason).

23 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

How about we just talk sacks.

Since 2019 (Simmons rookie year)

TJ Watt - 51.5 sacks

Garrett - 38

Simmons - 13.5

 

You're attempting to denigrate my knowledge while at the same time comparing sack numbers of a Defensive End and an Interior Lineman. Irony.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, todd said:

Your opinion of Beane is flawed

 

In what way? To simply say that something is flawed while providing zero proof of such is not proof of anything.

 

1 hour ago, todd said:

It’s a borderline trolling crusade. 

 

A difference of opinion is not trolling. Its a difference of opinion.

 

1 hour ago, todd said:

Fact is, Beane is the architect of a roster that is extremely successful.

 

He is the architect of part of a successful roster, yes.

 

Our best defensive players were here before Beane was. Hyde, Poyer, Tre, Milano, and Hughes were inherited by Beane.

 

Our best offensive lineman, Dion Dawkins, was also inherited by Beane.

 

That is a lot of talent that was here before Beane ever stepped foot in the building. 

 

1 hour ago, todd said:

Any dumbass “what if he didn’t draft Allen” scenario is stupid

 

It's not a scenario, it's an isolation technique. 

 

Because the QB heavily influences a teams win/loss percentage (the QB position is heavily weighted), its difficult to evaluate other players with isolating the heavily weighted variable. This is common in science and analytics. 

 

1 hour ago, todd said:

Along with that, he has partnered with other parts of the organization to make sure players are developed and successful. 

 

Expound on this. I'm not sure what you mean. 

 

.

Edited by Einstein
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2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

 

 

This is really the difference between the two teams… and it makes a big difference.

 

The Bills roster is widely viewed as the best roster in the NFL because Beane has done a great job at putting "above-average/high-potential/reliable" talent everywhere, with depth, and yes.. most importantly.. with an elite QB.

 

Elite Talent:  Allen, Diggs, Miller, White

 

Above Average Talent:  Dawkins, Morse, Oliver, Edmunds, Milano, Johnson, Poyer, Hyde

 

High Potential Talent:  Brown, Bates, Cook, Davis, Rousseau, Elam

 

Reliable Talent: Saffold, Singletary, Crowder, Jones

 

Good (Rotation) Depth:  Keenum, Howard, McKenzie, Quessenberry, Settle, Phillips, Jackson

 

Then you look at the young guys I didn't mention.. Shakir, Hamlin, Bernard, Epenesa, Basham..  Juries still out on them. 

 

The OL depth is pretty good for in comparison to most NFL teams.  

 

Every group on this team is likely above average in comparison to other NFL teams.  The depth is above average in comparison to other NFL teams.  So when we say "Who has a better roster, Buffalo or Tennessee?".. QB is the main difference, but other notable differences are that they don't have a WR1.. they don't have the depth we have.. and they don't have above average talent or potential at almost every position on the roster.  There are noticeable weaknesses to exploit on paper.  On paper, Outside WR depth in the only glaring deficiency for the Bills.  

 

 

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16 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

The Bills roster is widely viewed as the best roster in the NFL because Beane has done a great job at putting "above-average/high-potential/reliable" talent everywhere, with depth, and yes.. most importantly.. with an elite QB.

 

Elite Talent:  Allen, Diggs, Miller, White

 

Above Average Talent:  Dawkins, Morse, Oliver, Edmunds, Milano, Johnson, Poyer, Hyde

 

High Potential Talent:  Brown, Bates, Cook, Davis, Rousseau, Elam

 

Reliable Talent: Saffold, Singletary, Crowder, Jones

 

Good (Rotation) Depth:  Keenum, Howard, McKenzie, Quessenberry, Settle, Phillips, Jackson

 

Then you look at the young guys I didn't mention.. Shakir, Hamlin, Bernard, Epenesa, Basham..  Juries still out on them. 

 

The OL depth is pretty good for in comparison to most NFL teams.  

 

Every group on this team is likely above average in comparison to other NFL teams.  The depth is above average in comparison to other NFL teams.  So when we say "Who has a better roster, Buffalo or Tennessee?".. QB is the main difference, but other notable differences are that they don't have a WR1.. they don't have the depth we have.. and they don't have above average talent or potential at almost every position on the roster.  There are noticeable weaknesses to exploit on paper.  On paper, Outside WR depth in the only glaring deficiency for the Bills.  

 

 


If our roster is so elite, why haven’t we won any Super Bowls? Shouldn’t elite rosters beat other less elite rosters? Are we not winning Super Bowls because of coaching? Afterall, how is it possible for a lesser talented roster (Ram), to win a super bowl before the Bills? 

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25 minutes ago, Einstein said:

You're attempting to denigrate my knowledge while at the same time comparing sack numbers of a Defensive End and an Interior Lineman. Irony.

 

DT sacks in 2021:

Jeffrey Simmons - 8.5

Aaron Donald - 12.5

Cam Hayward - 10.0

Chris Jones - 9

 

As far as career, Jeffrey Simmons has 1.5 sacks more than Ed Oliver and Simmons (according to you) plays on much better DL.

 

I'm using more than that to denigrate your knowledge.

What are your thoughts on PFF putting us as the #1 roster in the NFL and the Titans #20?  Let me guess.  PFF is absolutely correct about Jeffrey Simmons but completely wrong about NFL roster rankings?

 

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3 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:


If our roster is so elite, why haven’t we won any Super Bowls? Shouldn’t elite rosters beat other less elite rosters? Are we not winning Super Bowls because of coaching? Afterall, how is it possible for a lesser talented roster (Ram), to win a super bowl before the Bills? 

 

You have the most one tracked, tunnel vision of any poster in the history of this board.  Everything is so black and white with you.

 

3 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Lol Royale, you laugh at my post but won’t offer a rebuttal. You never answered my questions. 

 

I have answered your questions multiple times in other threads and you stick to your one track mind.

You have asked this question several times and want an objective answer which there isn't one.  It's very weird.

 

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Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You have the most one tracked, tunnel vision of any poster in the history of this board.  Everything is so black and white with you.

 

Just stop side skirting the question, answer it in your own words. What logic explains the lack of a super bowl if we have one of the most elite roster? If we have the strongest and most cunning soldiers and we are losing battles, is it not because we lack good generals? So which is it, coaching or talent? 

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