COVID health insurance exclusions

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

I've thought it through.  The hospitals will still take the patients.  Then they'll sue the patients for unpaid bills and chase them down.  Garnish their wages.  Liens on Social Security.  Push them into bankruptcy.  Insurers will develop COVID riders for which adult unvaxxed can pay significant premiums.  Not my problem.  Capitalism.  It's perfect. 

 

As to your other issues, those illegals bereft of insurance get the same treatment already.  They get treated, and then they get sued if they stick around and can't pay their bills.  Guy in the street?  Same thing.  If he has insurance that covers his GSW, good for him.  If not, that's life.  I'm fine with rewriting health insurance policies not to pay for someone like that so long as the shooting was a justified response to a criminal action.  (Shooting someone for, say, public intoxication would not be a justified action.)

 

You’d make a great conservative! 

[plenzmd1]

Just now, SectionC3 said:

Yup.  I do.   The vax cuts hospitalization rates.  Stop spending my money on Medicare for the unvaxxed, commie. 

so in other words the actual numbers are wrong, and cause you FEEL  the unvaxed are the cause of spread they should be punished...real world date be damned?

[SectionC3]

Just now, plenzmd1 said:

so in other words the actual numbers are wrong, and cause you FEEL  the unvaxed are the cause of spread they should be punished...real world date be damned?

 

57% of hospitalizations are unvaxxed, according to your numbers.  75% at ECMC are unvaxxed.  Maybe you're a little unnerved by my good ideas here.  Whatever.  Wanna skip the shot?  Cool.  Time to pay for it.  

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

You’d make a great conservative! 

 

Conservatism is dead.  Donald Trump destroyed it.  Conservatives have no idea what they stand for or what their bedrock principles should be.  I just have common sense.  It's lacking these days.  

[plenzmd1]

2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

57% of hospitalizations are unvaxxed, according to your numbers.  75% at ECMC are unvaxxed.  Maybe you're a little unnerved by my good ideas here.  Whatever.  Wanna skip the shot?  Cool.  Time to pay for it.  

 

Conservatism is dead.  Donald Trump destroyed it.  Conservatives have no idea what they stand for or what their bedrock principles should be.  I just have common sense.  It's lacking these days.  

so take the shot even if the real world date is proving they dont work? Fudge studies, we have actual data now...

 

So you are anti- science?

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, SectionC3 said:

 

Conservatism is dead.  Donald Trump destroyed it.  Conservatives have no idea what they stand for or what their bedrock principles should be.  I just have common sense.  It's lacking these days.  

And away we go…I think you’re confusing conservatism with the Bush brand of liberalism-light. But I do think you and I could build a platform based on Common Sense. It’s sorely lacking these days.

[SectionC3]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

And away we go…I think you’re confusing conservatism with the Bush brand of liberalism-light. But I do think you and I could build a platform based on Common Sense. It’s sorely lacking these days.

 

Nope.  What do conservatives stand for?  Rule of law, free trade, individual liberty.  What did Trump stand for?  Tariffs, lies, and election law hoaxes.  It's why people like Cheney--a longtime conservative--despise him.  

[Doc]

1 minute ago, plenzmd1 said:

so take the shot even if the real world date is proving they dont work? Fudge studies, we have actual data now...

 

So you are anti- science?

 

Anti-facts.  Pro-feelz.

[SectionC3]

2 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

so take the shot even if the real world date is proving they dont work? Fudge studies, we have actual data now...

 

So you are anti- science?

 

Hoax.  The shot keeps hospitalizations down.  Your own numbers say as much.  If the shot didn't work, then hospitalizations would be 50/50 vexed and unvaxxed.  They're not.  Another hoax debunked. 

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

Nope.  What do conservatives stand for?  Rule of law, free trade, individual liberty.  What did Trump stand for?  Tariffs, lies, and election law hoaxes.  It's why people like Cheney--a longtime conservative--despise him.  

You have an awful lot to learn about being a conservative. With that said, Trump was/is at his core a nationalist. 

[plenzmd1]

1 minute ago, SectionC3 said:

 

Hoax.  The shot keeps hospitalizations down.  Your own numbers say as much.  If the shot didn't work, then hospitalizations would be 50/50 vexed and unvaxxed.  They're not.  Another hoax debunked. 

hoax is they prevent hospitalizations. They reduce for sure, but no where near what was first reported. So lets see what happens as we continue to gather real word data vs rushed studies and projections. Ya know, like in a normal vaccine authorization process.

 

And if we can get the therapeutic pills approved and they work as advertised, they should be more effective at preventing hospitalizations than these vaccines are proven to be.

 

This is the problem with the vaccine thing...we all wanted it to work so bad and to end this Covid crap...we let ourselves take studies as gospel. 

 

But we have real world data now...NYS 71% vaxed and and yet 25% more cases this year over last at same exact time...and people will swear the studies show they prevent transmission, so that must be true!!!!

[SectionC3]

9 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

You have an awful lot to learn about being a conservative. With that said, Trump was/is at his core a nationalist. 

 

I know them pretty well.  Let's not even get into how undermining NATO and palling around with Putin affects the "peace through strength" tenet of conservatism. 

6 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

hoax is they prevent hospitalizations. They reduce for sure, but no where near what was first reported. So lets see what happens as we continue to gather real word data vs rushed studies and projections. Ya know, like in a normal vaccine authorization process.

 

And if we can get the therapeutic pills approved and they work as advertised, they should be more effective at preventing hospitalizations than these vaccines are proven to be.

 

This is the problem with the vaccine thing...we all wanted it to work so bad and to end this Covid crap...we let ourselves take studies as gospel. 

 

But we have real world data now...NYS 71% vaxed and and yet 25% more cases this year over last at same exact time...and people will swear the studies show they prevent transmission, so that must be true!!!!

 

Ding ding we have a winner.  So get the vax and increase your odds of staying out of the hospital.  Or pay for it yourself.  Whatevs.  Not my problem.  Freedom at its finest. 

8 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

hoax is they prevent hospitalizations. They reduce for sure, but no where near what was first reported. So lets see what happens as we continue to gather real word data vs rushed studies and projections. Ya know, like in a normal vaccine authorization process.

 

And if we can get the therapeutic pills approved and they work as advertised, they should be more effective at preventing hospitalizations than these vaccines are proven to be.

 

This is the problem with the vaccine thing...we all wanted it to work so bad and to end this Covid crap...we let ourselves take studies as gospel. 

 

But we have real world data now...NYS 71% vaxed and and yet 25% more cases this year over last at same exact time...and people will swear the studies show they prevent transmission, so that must be true!!!!

 

Have we accounted for transmission among the unvaccinated?  Or asymptomatic presence in the vaccinated (which, BTW, is one of the purposes of the vax)?  Nope.  So another false equivalency--or, if you will, hoax--from you. 

[Westside]

28 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

I've thought it through.  The hospitals will still take the patients.  Then they'll sue the patients for unpaid bills and chase them down.  Garnish their wages.  Liens on Social Security.  Push them into bankruptcy.  Insurers will develop COVID riders for which adult unvaxxed can pay significant premiums.  Not my problem.  Capitalism.  It's perfect. 

 

As to your other issues, those illegals bereft of insurance get the same treatment already.  They get treated, and then they get sued if they stick around and can't pay their bills.  Guy in the street?  Same thing.  If he has insurance that covers his GSW, good for him.  If not, that's life.  I'm fine with rewriting health insurance policies not to pay for someone like that so long as the shooting was a justified response to a criminal action.  (Shooting someone for, say, public intoxication would not be a justified action.)

 

Hoax.  Nobody is outraged.  And you painted with a broad brush.  It's kind of like saying that everyone who believes that HCQ is an effective treatment for COVID is a drooling moron.  Many of those people are drooling morons, but some probably are not. 

That’s easy enough to get around if you don’t have health insurance. Don’t give them your name or social security number. They can’t sue you if they don’t know who you are. Then, our health insurance would go up to pay for those who do not pay.

There’s no getting around it. You’re going to be paying more either way.

9 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

I know them pretty well.  Let's not even get into how undermining NATO and palling around with Putin affects the "peace through strength" tenet of conservatism. 

 

Ding ding we have a winner.  So get the vax and increase your odds of staying out of the hospital.  Or pay for it yourself.  Whatevs.  Not my problem.  Freedom at its finest. 

 

Have we accounted for transmission among the unvaccinated?  Or asymptomatic presence in the vaccinated (which, BTW, is one of the purposes of the vax)?  Nope.  So another false equivalency--or, if you will, hoax--from you. 

How about no more state funded abortions? If you want to kill a baby, do it on your own dime.

[Beach]

2 minutes ago, Westside said:

That’s easy enough to get around if you don’t have health insurance. Don’t give them your name or social security number. They can’t sue you if they don’t know who you are. Then, our health insurance would go up to pay for those who do not pay.

There’s no getting around it. You’re going to be paying more either way.

15 years ago i was uninsured and got e.coli... ended up in the hospital for 3 days.  i showed i made very little money (my main job was under the table) and the hospital absorbed the entire cost without causing any sort of fuss.  i was like "this was way better than being insured!"

[plenzmd1]

8 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

I know them pretty well.  Let's not even get into how undermining NATO and palling around with Putin affects the "peace through strength" tenet of conservatism. 

 

Ding ding we have a winner.  So get the vax and increase your odds of staying out of the hospital.  Or pay for it yourself.  Whatevs.  Not my problem.  Freedom at its finest. 

 

Have we accounted for transmission among the unvaccinated?  Or asymptomatic presence in the vaccinated (which, BTW, is one of the purposes of the vax)?  Nope.  So another false equivalency--or, if you will, hoax--from you. 

I am fine with that as long as it extends to every thing people can do to increase their odds of staying out of hospital.

 

We know for instance , far greater  number of  vaxxed obese people die and are  in hospital(78% of overall deaths have been in obese people) than unvaxxed non obese people.

 

So if your BMI is over a certain percent, you good with those people paying for their care?. We KNOW that is by far the greatest risk factor in deaths, not vax status.

 

You good with that?

14 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

I know them pretty well.  Let's not even get into how undermining NATO and palling around with Putin affects the "peace through strength" tenet of conservatism. 

 

Ding ding we have a winner.  So get the vax and increase your odds of staying out of the hospital.  Or pay for it yourself.  Whatevs.  Not my problem.  Freedom at its finest. 

 

Have we accounted for transmission among the unvaccinated?  Or asymptomatic presence in the vaccinated (which, BTW, is one of the purposes of the vax)?  Nope.  So another false equivalency--or, if you will, hoax--from you. 

yes...we have real world case numbers year over year....25% higher in NYS with 71% vaccinated vs last year. We were told by Fauci and Wallenski and Biden..get to 70% and this thing is over..it aint. So it has to be spreading amongst the vaccinated...as the hospitalizations in Erie county prove.

 

 

Just answer a simple question...why are cases 25% higher in NYS with 71% fully vaxed?

[JaCrispy]

46 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Yup.  I do.   The vax cuts hospitalization rates.  Stop spending my money on Medicare for the unvaxxed, commie. 

Oh please...we all know you don’t work...😉

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, SectionC3 said:

 

Hoax.  The shot keeps hospitalizations down.  Your own numbers say as much.  If the shot didn't work, then hospitalizations would be 50/50 vexed and unvaxxed.  They're not.  Another hoax debunked. 

Your 50/50 assumption is simplistic and you have no control group to use as a baseline to validate that assumption.  Vaccinated or not, hospitalization rates are 99%+ a function of other factors such as weak immune systems resulting from old age and co-morbidities.  There are literally no patients in hospitals that "just" have COVID.  Almost all have high risk factors including hospitalized children.  Admissions are "with COVID" and rarely is any other health issue absent.  Like anything else the general rule is healthy people or young people don't die.  All the data on hospitalizations support this but it doesn't get much airplay.    

 

I should add, the vaccine does help keep people out of the hospital but that is among those with high risk factors.  Otherwise healthy young people naturally have a low/no risk of hospitalization with or without it. 

Edited November 24, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[SectionC3]

2 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

I am fine with that as long as it extends to every thing people can do to increase their odds of staying out of hospital.

 

We know for instance , far greater  number of  vaxxed obese people die and are  in hospital(78% of overall deaths have been in obese people) than unvaxxed non obese people.

 

So if your BMI is over a certain percent, you good with those people paying for their care?. We KNOW that is by far the greatest risk factor in deaths, not vax status.

 

You good with that?

yes...we have real world case numbers year over year....25% higher in NYS with 71% vaccinated vs last year. We were told by Fauci and Wallenski and Biden..get to 70% and this thing is over..it aint. So it has to be spreading amongst the vaccinated...as the hospitalizations in Erie county prove.

 

 

Just answer a simple question...why are cases 25% higher in NYS with 71% fully vaxed?

 

I’m not a scientist, but I’ll hazard a guess.  More human interaction (less “lockdowns”), mask fatigue or disuse, and an evolved virus that is more infectious but perhaps less lethal.  Your point appears to be that more infections mean that the vax is ineffective.  To my understanding, a vax isn’t going to prevent all spread; it should prevent some spread and make the spread that does occur less dangerous in those who are infected.   

2 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Oh please...we all know you don’t work...😉

Believe me, I am working on not working.  Go stock market. 

[Sundancer]

3 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

so take the shot even if the real world date is proving they dont work? Fudge studies, we have actual data now...

 

Now you're just here posting idiocy. I am sorry to others for trying to engage with you at all.

 

What other conspiracies do you believe, besides that the scientific community is lying about the vaccine's effectivenes?

 

 

Scientists are also lying about antibiotics. You can google it. Stop taking them. 

[plenzmd1]

10 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

Now you're just here posting idiocy. I am sorry to others for trying to engage with you at all.

 

What other conspiracies do you believe, besides that the scientific community is lying about the vaccine's effectivenes?

 

 

Scientists are also lying about antibiotics. You can google it. Stop taking them. 

again, explain to me how cases are up 25% year over year in NYS on same dates, deaths are up....and yet you claim vaccines work like they were promised.

 

Just explain how that is...using real world numbers and not freaking studies!!!!!

[Sundancer]

1 minute ago, plenzmd1 said:

again, explain to me how cases are up 25% year over year in NYS on same dates, deaths are up....and yet you claim vaccines work like they were promised.

 

Just explain how that is...using real world numbers and not freaking studies!!!!!

 

I LOVE that you downplay the studies but appear eager to ignore counterexamples. Well done "scientist."