Mickey Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Hey, keep building the straw men and try to avoid actually addressing the faultiness of your arguments. You claimed that if people didn't believe in God or heaven, they would be less likely to commit suicide in any form. Basically, that the religious do not value life because there's a potential after-life or something like that. Obviously, you do not believe this yourself, since you just provided a laundry list of stereotypes that show that result probably would be mixed. Yes, perhaps religion motivates people to sacrifice their life for good or ill, atheists are more likely to hold more dearly to their life and less likely to give it up for the good of others. Whoop de doo. Oh, I cannot make generalizations about atheists? Sorry, I forgot that it is fair to generalize about the religious who are more diverse and larger in number. Sorry, my mistake. Well, while the religious might be experts at becoming martyrs and terrorists, at least the atheists are good at the whole mass murder thing. Huh? You say. Whoops!: Mao Zedong: Over 40 Million Chinese murdered Josef Stalin: Over 20 Million Murdered Pol Pot: Million+ Keep flaming, I'll flame back. Unlike religious types, I am not restrained by politeness or decency. 329804[/snapback] Apparently your reading comprehension skills are unabe to survive your overheated rhetoric. Try going back and reading what I actually wrote and your response to see who started flaming. The poster asked for our thoughts on grieving the loss of a loved one and how that was effected by our belief or nonbelief in god. I gave him my take that belief in an afterlife softens the sting of death but that in softening that sting, death becomes less of a thing to avoid. Suicide is a pretty good example as certainly, there are those who are more willing to die because they think they are simply moving to a higher plane, heaven or whatever. That is all I said. I never mentioned anything about God, just a belief in the afterlife. Newsfalsh: there are plenty of people who do not believe in judeo-christian god but do believe in some sort of afterlife. I also said that I thought we might take saving lives even more seriously than we do. Only an idiot, supersensitive to any possible anti-religious remark, would read that to mean that I didn't think we already, believers and non-believers alike, take saving lives pretty seriously. Your response about abortion protesters and the like might have made sense if I had said the the religious don't care at all about saving lives but that is not what I said but by all means, pretend I did and then jump on your own creation. In response to your non-point, that some religious fanatics try to save lives (something I never denied), I provided examples of religious fanatics that weren't at all interested in saving lives, quite the reverse in fact. As for them, I believe that their belief in an afterlife makes it easier for them to kill others. Nothing you have said has at all refuted that point. I am not making an argument that all religion is bad or that all atheists are wonderful. Your statement that you are not restrained by politeness or decency and the fact the you are proud of that speaks volumes. You may want to add to your confession that you are also not restrained by any measure of intelligence. Please don't take this personally. You see, my faith teaches me to love the idiot and hate the idiocy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 The poster asked for our thoughts on grieving the loss of a loved one and how that was effected by our belief or nonbelief in god. I gave him my take that belief in an afterlife softens the sting of death but that in softening that sting, death becomes less of a thing to avoid. Suicide is a pretty good example as certainly, there are those who are more willing to die because they think they are simply moving to a higher plane, heaven or whatever. That is all I said. I never mentioned anything about God, just a belief in the afterlife. Newsfalsh: there are plenty of people who do not believe in judeo-christian god but do believe in some sort of afterlife. 330063[/snapback] I wholeheartedly agree that belief in God and life after death softens the sting of death. It also might make one more willing to sacrifice his/her life for a cause if need be, but in Christianity at least, suicide is very much looked down upon. I would not presume to judge the fate of someone who committed suicide, but most Christians would not think suicide is consistent with Christian values. I did the funeral of a suicide "victim" a couple years ago, and it was one of the hardest funerals I've done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Tate Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Believer. Not a good example of one, but one nonetheless. BTW, if you're local St. Paul's United Methodist Church is raising money to bomb abortion clinics or for suicide bombers, or the pastor is claiming to be Christ himself and stockpiling weapons in the rectory, or they are in any way advocating violence against other people due to their religious beliefs, by all means get out of there and report them. But it's more likely that in addition to their worship, they are doing things like providing a community focal point for charitable donations and support for the people in your town who need it most - regardless of their beliefs. Chances are good the congregation includes amongst it's members some of the finest, nicest people you will ever have the pleasure of knowing in your entire lifetime. As a whole, I'd stack them up against the people in any other regular public gathering you can think of, with the understanding that the better examples are usually going to end up being the same people (such as a Lion's club member who also attends church). I don't think the poll numbers are accurate. Under different circumstances, the believer numbers would be much higher. There are very few atheists in foxholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTG81 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 There are very few atheists in foxholes. 330150[/snapback] Thank-you, you just proved my point. Of course there are no atheist's in foxholes. Why? That's when fear (hence, we need and want a "god") is at it's strongest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted May 6, 2005 Author Share Posted May 6, 2005 David Koresh also claimed he was "the son of God", no? How about all of the other schizo's who walk around claiming they are the son of God? Not that I'm calling Jesus a schizo, but did you ever think of the possibility that maybe Jesus wasn't all there? Mental illness isn't just a 20th century creation. Let the flaming begin. 329852[/snapback] HAHA.... great stuff, major low blow to most people, however I like the devil's advocate approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 There are very few atheists in foxholes. 330150[/snapback] Nobody finds Jesus on prom night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gantrules Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 So how do you guys feel about abortion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTG81 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 So how do you guys feel about abortion? 330199[/snapback] Hahahaha... It's a good form of birth control. J/K!! Seriously, it's a woman's choice. I don't believe it's a baby until it's born. Man, I'm a pro-abortion Republican atheist who supports gay marriage. How many of us are there around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Tate Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Thank-you, you just proved my point. Of course there are no atheist's in foxholes. Why? That's when fear (hence, we need and want a "god") is at it's strongest. So everyone who believes in God (75% so far in this poll) is just sca-red. We're all in foxholes. Gonna die any second. Mommy! Hah! No, my point was that there are a lot of "I don't knows" who are ignoring their belief, hope or faith because it's convenient, and if push came to shove, you bet your life they'd be saying a prayer. Being in a foxhole is a metaphor for most outside of our beloved GI's - a metaphor for having a major life experience focus you on what's really important in your life, and not necessarily a threat to YOUR immediate life. People don't go to church because they're scared. At least, not anyone I've ever met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Man, I'm a pro-abortion Republican atheist who supports gay marriage. How many of us are there around? 330206[/snapback] At least one too many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTG81 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 At least one too many. 330214[/snapback] I really miss that f-you smiley! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 I really miss that f-you smiley! 330216[/snapback] I like the smiles better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Huh? Are people still arguing about this? I thought everyone would have agreed on religion by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 I am just wondering what happens if/when JC does come back... Anyone gonna believe him with all the nutcases out there? 329861[/snapback] With any luck he won't be wielding an AR-15 on a daily basis while living in a commune in Waco, Tx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 With any luck he won't be wielding an AR-15 on a daily basis while living in a commune in Waco, Tx. 330233[/snapback] JC will be the only one who isn't telling people to kill themselves or have a mass crank-induced orgy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet baboo Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Hahahaha...It's a good form of birth control. J/K!! Seriously, it's a woman's choice. I don't believe it's a baby until it's born. Man, I'm a pro-abortion Republican atheist who supports gay marriage. How many of us are there around? 330206[/snapback] *Raises Hand* You could also look towards the Libertarian party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsjunkie Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 HAHA.... great stuff, major low blow to most people, however I like the devil's advocate approach. 330183[/snapback] Did David walk on water? Did David heal the crippled? Did David take a severe beating and still forgive his beaters? Did David take up a cross and be flogged? Did Davis let people nail him to a cross and let him just hang there? Was David sin free? David was a sinner just like you and me. Jesus was sin free. Jesus walked on water Jesus healed the blind and made the crippled walk. Jesus died on that cross for our sins, was raised from the dead, and showed himself to his disciples and to the people after he was raised. There is no comparrison and no that was not a low blow because Jesus is the son of god. You my friend will receive the low blow if you dont except the salvation that only Jesus Christ can give through his blood. Jesus Christ filled the prohesy of the old testament. I pray for your soul because I would hate to come before Jesus when I die with your views on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsjunkie Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 JC will be the only one who isn't telling people to kill themselves or have a mass crank-induced orgy. 330236[/snapback] Amen brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 You my friend will receive the low blow if you dont except the salvation that only Jesus Christ can give through his blood.Jesus Christ filled the prohesy of the old testament. I pray for your soul because I would hate to come before Jesus when I die with your views on him. 330242[/snapback] Judge not, lest ye be judged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 I pray for your soul because I would hate to come before Jesus when I die with your views on him. 330242[/snapback] If Jesus is everything you say He is, then doesn't it seem like He would gladly forgive a little skepticism? Or is He, in addition to being Divine, also quite insecure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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