Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 28, 2021 Author Share Posted September 28, 2021 8 minutes ago, Governor said: I’m not a progressive. There should be zero policy geared towards helping middle class homeowners with kids. The entire tax code and every other existing policy is already in place to lift up that group. There should also be zero policy geared specifically for children and parents. It just isn’t sound policy. If a policy/program isn’t good enough and available for every American citizen, then it isn’t sound policy and shouldn’t be passed. Most republican post ever DJT may recruit you to run his campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Most republican post ever DJT may recruit you to run his campaign I'm starting to wonder if someone has cracked the @Governor account, or someone handed him a Republican beer at Hammer's or something. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Most republican post ever Bootstraps. The child tax credit is the worst policy I’ve ever seen. That needs to be axed ASAP. The only reason it passed is because lawmakers were afraid to vote against something for “the children.” That’s not how Washington should be operating. The homeless veteran without kids needs help too. Why can’t he get it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: I'm starting to wonder if someone has cracked the @Governor account, or someone handed him a Republican beer at Hammer's or something. I’m extremely conservative when it comes to means-testing and children. Lol. It’s real simple. If the bill on the floor isn’t good for every American, then it isn’t good for any American. No more splitting us up into groups and creating division, which leads to people thinking they’re owed something or they earned it and this person doesn’t deserve this or that for whatever reason. I also support UBI and THEN eliminating every other program out there, social security, children stuff, welfare, etc. Just have 1 program for everyone. It’s already set up for the IRS to dump money in everyone’s accounts. Give it to the wealthy also and just get it back in taxes at the end of the year. Edited September 28, 2021 by Governor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 32 minutes ago, Governor said: No more splitting us up into groups and creating division, which leads to people thinking they’re owed something or they earned it and this person doesn’t deserve this or that for whatever reason. One thing my Dad used to say about when the government gives someone money they didn't earn, what they're really telling them is "you poor SOB, you just can't make it on your own so we gotta help you, you poor slob". And the $300 per child is a great incentive to not better yourself but instead depend on the $300. When my kids were young and I had little money I read computer books at night to improve my skills to make more money to better support my kids. Had I been receiving $900 per month from the feds I'm not so sure I would have done that. Wouldn't need to. And reading the computer books at night DID help me get a better job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 4 hours ago, Pokebball said: The science is probably too deep for a discussion on this board, but it has clearly been shown that a child's cognitive learning ability begins around 2 yrs of age. I'm not sure what you're background has to do with anything. I'm not saying success isn't possible without it. That just proves that we are replacing parents with schools. Academically speaking, there is no difference between those who attended pre-school or not. However, it can shape behavior dramatically. 2 more years of indoctrination by the state! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 15 minutes ago, unbillievable said: That just proves that we are replacing parents with schools. Academically speaking, there is no difference between those who attended pre-school or not. However, it can shape behavior dramatically. 2 more years of indoctrination by the state! It does seem like we are replacing parents with schools. I guess we have to nowadays cuz Moms (and Dads if there is one) have to work for the man. But looking at an ad for Pre K, what they do sounds an awful lot like what my Mom did for me before I got to first grade. Quote Children are engaged in learning through play and delighting in hands-on activities. There is a daily schedule of well-planned activities that promote meaningful learning. Adults give students helpful feedback, praise and encouragement. Staff is well trained and knowledgeable and understand how children grow and develop. Children engage in daily practice for fine motor skills to develop hand strength for writing. Activities may include: coloring, writing practice, painting, snipping paper with scissors, play-doh activities, stringing beads, and using Legos. Teachers make a point to clearly teach the letters and the sounds they make; they point out and describe the letter shape, they model the sounds they make, and guide students in practicing to write them. These concepts are not for students to figure out on their own, left to chance, or for only practicing at home. Daily literacy activities include teacher read alouds, singing nursery rhymes, learning letters of the alphabet and the learning sounds of letters. Children are busy and motivated learners using toys, dramatic play (dress up), games, art, and music throughout the day. https://www.homereadinghelper.org/what-is-pre-k/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, unbillievable said: That just proves that we are replacing parents with schools. Academically speaking, there is no difference between those who attended pre-school or not. However, it can shape behavior dramatically. 2 more years of indoctrination by the state! Kids with active parents are at a significant advantage, with or without public education, with or without early education. Understanding the difference between daycare and early education is an important difference. Do you have a link to support your claim regarding there being no difference between those that attended early education and those that didn't? I've read quite a bit that supports just the opposite. edit - let me add that I'm a Republican. My opinion comes from years of serving on the board of an early education organization. I'm not for indoctrination but rather doing what's best for our kiddos. Edited September 28, 2021 by Pokebball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 All of this is just another aimless expansion of the public sector. Little good will come if it but great expense will be ‘invested’. If after 13 years, soon to be 15 years of taxpayer funded schooling, you haven’t either learned enough, or been taught enough, to get a relatively decent job what makes anyone think another two free years will be the magic pill? Answer: it won’t! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 13 minutes ago, Pokebball said: Kids with active parents are at a significant advantage, with or without public education, with or without early education. Understanding the difference between daycare and early education is an important difference. Do you have a link to support your claim regarding there being no difference between those that attended early education and those that didn't? I've read quite a bit that supports just the opposite. edit - let me add that I'm a Republican. My opinion comes from years of serving on the board of an early education organization. I'm not for indoctrination but rather doing what's best for our kiddos. I guess I should have included that it made little difference LONG TERM, academically. The differences were behavioral more than academic. The studies showed that kids that attended pre-school were more prepared, but the advantage disappeared by middle school. (in terms of grades). In fact, it may have hurt them. It prompted a shift towards more social "play" based curriculum; which actually does help create a better person. The biggest differences were in low-income children who benefited from having the structure, essentially replacing an absentee parent with school. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-learn/201505/early-academic-training-produces-long-term-harm Just proves my point that we're trying to replace parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: All of this is just another aimless expansion of the public sector. Little good will come if it but great expense will be ‘invested’. If after 13 years, soon to be 15 years of taxpayer funded schooling, you haven’t either learned enough, or been taught enough, to get a relatively decent job what makes anyone think another two free years will be the magic pill? Answer: it won’t! College students vote Democrat. They typically don't migrate right until they get a job. That's guaranteeing four more years of indoctrination. Edited September 28, 2021 by unbillievable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 10 minutes ago, unbillievable said: I guess I should have included that it made little difference LONG TERM, academically. The differences were behavioral more than academic. The studies showed that kids that attended pre-school were more prepared, but the advantage disappeared by middle school. (in terms of grades). In fact, it may have hurt them. It prompted a shift towards more social "play" based curriculum; which actually does help create a better person. The biggest differences were in low-income children who benefited from having the structure, essentially replacing an absentee parent with school. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-learn/201505/early-academic-training-produces-long-term-harm Just proves my point that we're trying to replace parents. All studies and research need to be considered and evaluated. As I shared with you, there are many that support early education. I think your point about replacing parents is a ruse. In almost all cases, active parents produce better results. Most of the early education programs I'm familiar with strongly encourage (if not require) active parents. In fact, as early education remains most voluntary at this time, it's the active parents that are seeking out these programs. We'll just need to agree to disagree with each other on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 12 minutes ago, unbillievable said: College students vote Democrat. They typically don't migrate right until they get a job. That's guaranteeing four more years of indoctrination. I think I'm hearing that your solution to ending indoctrination is to end education? I'm hopeful we can find a solution that doesn't require us flush education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 14 minutes ago, unbillievable said: College students vote Democrat. They typically don't migrate right until they get a job. That's guaranteeing four more years of indoctrination. I honestly think this has less to do with that than it does in the ever expanding public sector. Nothing like guaranteeing four more years of teachers union membership support! More insider trading with your tax dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Pokebball said: I think I'm hearing that your solution to ending indoctrination is to end education? I'm hopeful we can find a solution that doesn't require us flush education. My hopeful side wants the solution to be about keeping the focus of school towards Academics, and leave the parenting to parents. It's my opinion that adding 2 years of pre-school is directly replacing parents during the child's behavioral development. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 10 hours ago, reddogblitz said: It does seem like we are replacing parents with schools. I guess we have to nowadays cuz Moms (and Dads if there is one) have to work for the man. But looking at an ad for Pre K, what they do sounds an awful lot like what my Mom did for me before I got to first grade. https://www.homereadinghelper.org/what-is-pre-k/ That seems to be the reality of the situation which causes me to lash out. I wouldn’t even consider having kids unless I was still pulling in 175k-200k. It just doesn’t make much sense to me. My parents weren’t nasty about it, but it was definitely frowned upon to collect unemployment, etc. it’s a little different in NJ tho since we pay into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Governor said: That seems to be the reality of the situation which causes me to lash out. I wouldn’t even consider having kids unless I was still pulling in 175k-200k. It just doesn’t make much sense to me. My parents weren’t nasty about it, but it was definitely frowned upon to collect unemployment, etc. it’s a little different in NJ tho since we pay into it. What? That’s your prerequisite for having kids? Your income status? Oh brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 1 hour ago, unbillievable said: My hopeful side wants the solution to be about keeping the focus of school towards Academics, and leave the parenting to parents. It's my opinion that adding 2 years of pre-school is directly replacing parents during the child's behavioral development. My counterpoint is it replaces parents only if the parents disengage. Those that will disengage are probably already disengaged. Those that don't, the kiddo further succeeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, Pokebball said: My counterpoint is it replaces parents only if the parents disengage. Those that will disengage are probably already disengaged. Those that don't, the kiddo further succeeds. You’d like to think so but schools shouldn’t be in the social engineering business. It’s simply not fair to the kids. It puts the kids in the awkward position of being at odds with their parents…especially those parents that are ‘engaged’. If our schools are so good that they’ve completed all the required curriculum (which we know isn’t true) then just let the kids play solitaire the rest of the day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: You’d like to think so but schools shouldn’t be in the social engineering business. It’s simply not fair to the kids. It puts the kids in the awkward position of being at odds with their parents…especially those parents that are ‘engaged’. If our schools are so good that they’ve completed all the required curriculum (which we know isn’t true) then just let the kids play solitaire the rest of the day! Schools shouldn't be in the social engineering business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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