As far as I'm concerned, TD had a playoff team

[BuckeyeBill]

Whoa dude.... what's with the name calling for a guys honest opinion.  Are you suggesting because he states the truth his unsupportive of the Bills?

 

Teflon Tom comes riding in on his white horse, formulates a rebuilding plan, hires a rookie coach the first year, gets his franchis QB the next year, fires his rookie HC after the third year and hires another rookie HC and begins the rebuilding process all over again.  Well, I think that sucks and it demonstrates a degree of ineptitude on Teflon Tom... and one has to wonder, based on how many of us think Mularkey looked at the draft, how much time on the clock the Teflon man has left with the organization.  We talk about how a coach loses the players, but we don't seem to talk about the GM losing the coaches. 

 

If it's being unsupportive to state the obvious then that's just too bad.

319769[/snapback]

 

I retracted my "supportive" comment earlier. But anyways...

 

Referring to TD as Teflon Tom, now that's...um, not moronic, that's... hmm.... unsubstantiated. Did you expect one man to come into a struggling 3-13 team with no quarterback or runningback, and turn it around without a few hic-cups? Those are rosy-colored glasses. Is the fact that Parcells had a losing season last year a sign that he is inept? I don't think so. I think that Dallas is a lot better now than when he came in. I realize that TD has a different job, but the fact is, you give people 2nd and 3rd and 4th chances, if you agree with how he is putting the team together and the direction the tema is going.

 

I became a TD fan starting with how masterfully he handled Peerless Price. Not many GMs would think of that, and end up with a dominant back like McGahee in the process. I think that is far from "teflon".

[BuckeyeBill]

OK, Sparkey.

319790[/snapback]

 

Now there you go KRC. I knew you had a heart somewhere in there.

 

I know we don't play in the NFC (which is something to lament in recent years), I know we play in the AFC East (which is something to lament for a while now), but the fact is our team is BETTER than teams that can boast themselves as "playoff" teams this year.

 

I also will not be surprised when we end up smacking around some "playoff" teams in '05. Will you be cheering with me? Or looking for a way to find holes in posts that you don't agree with?

 

Sparkey

[JDG]

Are you kidding me??????

 

There are two possible judgments of last year's team, neither one of them involves the "playoffs." (cue obligatory Jim Mora clip)

 

The charitable version is that the Bills benefited from a schedule draw featuring the weakest division in the NFC, one of the two weakest divisions in the AFC. As if that wasn't enough, the Bills had something like three games against teams that had just fired their coach mid-season, and were essentially imploding. After getting just about every break in the book, the Bills managed to just barely claw their way above the "Mendoza Line" before being exposed for the frauds they really were against the Pittsburgh Steelers' backups.

 

The uncharitable version is that the 2004 Buffalo Bills were a decent team who beat up inferior competition in the middle of the season, and who then pulled one of the greatest choke-jobs in modern pro sports history. You ordinarily judge a sports team based on how well they are playing at the end of the season, not at the beginning of it. This usually means the playoffs for good teams, in a game in which both teams have everything to play for. Except for the fact that the Buffalo Bill had their biggest game and last game against a team that had *nothing* to play for. Not only were the backups starting at several key position, but with the game in the balance in the third quarter, the backups to the backups were being sent into the game. Even worse, the game was at *home*, in front of our own fans - and incredibly, the game wasn't even close. The Bills were simply thrashed by Pittsburgh's backups in their biggest test of the year. Quite simply, the 2004 Buffalo Bills aren't worthy to even sniff the sweat in Scott Norwood's jock strap - let alone wear the same helmets.

 

For my money, those are the only two possible judgments of last years' team. I'll leave it to the reader to pick the charitable or the uncharitable version....

 

JDG

[KRC]

Now there you go KRC.  I knew you had a heart somewhere in there. 

 

I know we don't play in the NFC (which is something to lament in recent years), I know we play in the AFC East (which is something to lament for a while now), but the fact is our team is BETTER than teams that can boast themselves as "playoff" teams this year. 

 

I also will not be surprised when we end up smacking around some "playoff" teams in '05.  Will you be cheering with me?  Or looking for a way to find holes in posts that you don't agree with?

 

Sparkey

319807[/snapback]

 

See my last post to Gavin. Losing record in the AFC means no playoffs. Who cares about the NFC?

[Realist]

Pioli or Banner but that's a pipe dream.

 

When's the last time the Iggs or Pats have had a pick go bust?

319794[/snapback]

 

Here's the Pats last 4 drafts not including 2005. A couple of very good players (although 2003 seemed to be a great draft). Other than that after rounds 1 and 2 I wouldn't call any of them gems (Givens in the 7th being the only one).

 

Interesting how the kicker Pochman was a Patriots 7th round pick in 01 now he is playing for us in NFLE and doing quite well from what I underrstand.

 

Overall, compared to this, I'm okay with TD's drafts.

 

2001

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 6 Richard Seymour DE Georgia

2 48 Matt Light T Purdue

3 86 Brock Williams CB Notre Dame

4 96 Kenyatta Jones T South Florida

4 119 Jabari Holloway TE Notre Dame

5 163 Hakim Akbar OLB Washington

6 180 Arther Love TE South Carolina State

6 200 Leonard Myers CB Miami

7 216 Owen Pochman K Brigham Young

7 239 T.J. Turner OLB Michigan State

 

2002

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 21 Daniel Graham TE Colorado

2 65 Deion Branch WR Louisville

4 117 Rohan Davey QB Louisiana State

4 126 Jarvis Green DE Louisiana State

7 237 Antwoine Womack RB Virginia

7 253 David Givens WR Notre Dame

 

2003

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 13 Ty Warren DE Texas A&M

2 36 Eugene Wilson FS Illinois

2 45 Bethel Johnson WR Texas A&M

4 117 Dan Klecko ILB Temple

4 120 Asante Samuel CB Central Florida

5 164 Dan Koppen C Boston College

6 201 Kliff Kingsbury QB Texas Tech

7 234 Spencer Nead FB Brigham Young

7 239 Tully Banta-Cain OLB California

7 243 Ethan Kelley DT Baylor

 

2004

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 21 Vince Wilfork DT Miami

1 32 Ben Watson TE Georgia

2 63 Marquise Hill DE Louisiana State

3 95 Guss Scott DB Florida

4 113 Dexter Reid SS North Carolina

4 128 Cedric Cobbs RB Arkansas

5 164 P.K. Sam WR Florida State

7 233 Christian Morton DB Illinois

[34-78-83]

Pioli or Banner but that's a pipe dream.

 

When's the last time the Iggs or Pats have had a pick go bust?

319794[/snapback]

 

(all picks in the 1st 3 rounds):

 

Rohan Davey

Brock Williams

Jabari Holloway

J.R. Redmond

Dan Graham (decent player but was he worth the 21st pick overall?)

Andy Katzenmoyer

Jerome McDougle

Billy McMullen

Freddie Mitchell

Quinton Caver

Derrick Burgess

Corey Simon (6th overall?)

Todd Pinkston

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Are you kidding me??????

 

There are two possible judgments of last year's team, neither one of them involves the "playoffs."  (cue obligatory Jim Mora clip)

 

The charitable version is that the Bills benefited from a schedule draw featuring the weakest division in the NFC, one of the two weakest divisions in the AFC.  As if that wasn't enough, the Bills had something like three games against teams that had just fired their coach mid-season, and were essentially imploding.  After getting just about every break in the book, the Bills managed to just barely claw their way above the "Mendoza Line" before being exposed for the frauds they really were against the Pittsburgh Steelers' backups.

 

The uncharitable version is that the 2004 Buffalo Bills were a decent team who beat up inferior competition in the middle of the season, and  who then pulled one of the greatest choke-jobs in modern pro sports history.  You ordinarily judge a sports team based on how well they are playing at the end of the season, not at the beginning of it.    This usually means the playoffs for good teams, in a game in which both teams have everything to play for.  Except for the fact that the Buffalo Bill had their biggest game and last game against a team that had *nothing* to play for.  Not only were the backups starting at several key position, but with the game in the balance in the third quarter, the backups to the backups were being sent into the game.  Even worse, the game was at *home*, in front of our own fans - and incredibly, the game wasn't even close.  The Bills were simply thrashed by Pittsburgh's backups in their biggest test of the year.  Quite simply, the 2004 Buffalo Bills aren't worthy to even sniff the sweat in Scott Norwood's jock strap - let alone wear the same helmets.

 

For my money, those are the only two possible judgments of last years' team.  I'll leave it to the reader to pick the charitable or the uncharitable version....

 

JDG

319808[/snapback]

 

My sentiments exactly. I can't believe I allowed myself to get sucked into the hype of that winning streak to the point where I actually bought tickets to that atrocity of a final game.

[Realist]

Pioli or Banner but that's a pipe dream.

 

When's the last time the Iggs or Pats have had a pick go bust?

319794[/snapback]

 

And here are the Eagles. Plenty of busts here. I am much more pleased with our drafts than these.

 

 

2000

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 6 Corey Simon DT Florida State

2 36 Todd Pinkston WR Southern Mississippi

2 61 Bobbie Williams G Arkansas

4 99 Gari Scott WR Michigan State

6 171 Thomas Hamner RB Minnesota

6 178 John Frank DE Utah

6 192 John Romero C California

 

2001

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 25 Freddie Mitchell WR UCLA

2 55 Quinton Caver OLB Arkansas

3 63 Derrick Burgess DE Mississippi

4 121 Correll Buckhalter RB Nebraska

5 147 Tony Stewart TE Penn State

5 155 A.J. Feeley QB Oregon

 

2002

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 26 Lito Sheppard CB Florida

2 58 Michael Lewis SS Colorado

2 59 Sheldon Brown CB South Carolina

3 91 Brian Westbrook RB Villanova

4 124 Scott Peters C Arizona State

5 162 Freddie Milons WR Alabama

6 198 Tyreo Harrison MLB Notre Dame

7 238 Raheem Brock DE Temple

 

2003

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 15 Jerome McDougle DE Miami

2 61 L.J. Smith TE Rutgers

3 95 Billy McMullen WR Virginia

4 131 Jamaal Green DE Miami

6 185 Jeremy Bridges T Southern Mississippi

7 244 Norman LeJeune DB Louisiana State

 

2004

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 16 Shawn Andrews T Arkansas

3 89 Matt Ware CB UCLA

4 129 J.R. Reed FS South Florida

4 131 Trey Darilek T Texas-El Paso

5 162 Thomas Tapeh FB Minnesota

6 185 Andy Hall QB Delaware

6 192 Dexter Wynn CB Colorado State

7 227 Adrien Clarke G Ohio State

7 242 Bruce Perry RB Maryland

7 243 Dominic Furio C Nevada-Las Vegas

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Here's the Pats last 4 drafts not including 2005.  A couple of very good players (although 2003 seemed to be a great draft).  Other than that after rounds 1 and 2 I wouldn't call any of them gems (Givens in the 7th being the only one). 

 

Interesting how the kicker Pochman was a Patriots 7th round pick in 01 now he is playing for us in NFLE and doing quite well from what I underrstand.

 

Overall, compared to this, I'm okay with TD's drafts.

 

2001

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 6 Richard Seymour DE Georgia

2 48 Matt Light T Purdue

3 86 Brock Williams CB Notre Dame

4 96 Kenyatta Jones T South Florida

4 119 Jabari Holloway TE Notre Dame

5 163 Hakim Akbar OLB Washington

6 180 Arther Love TE South Carolina State

6 200 Leonard Myers CB Miami

7 216 Owen Pochman K Brigham Young

7 239 T.J. Turner OLB Michigan State

 

2002

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 21 Daniel Graham TE Colorado

2 65 Deion Branch WR Louisville

4 117 Rohan Davey QB Louisiana State

4 126 Jarvis Green DE Louisiana State

7 237 Antwoine Womack RB Virginia

7 253 David Givens WR Notre Dame

 

2003

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 13 Ty Warren DE Texas A&M

2 36 Eugene Wilson FS Illinois

2 45 Bethel Johnson WR Texas A&M

4 117 Dan Klecko ILB Temple

4 120 Asante Samuel CB Central Florida

5 164 Dan Koppen C Boston College

6 201 Kliff Kingsbury QB Texas Tech

7 234 Spencer Nead FB Brigham Young

7 239 Tully Banta-Cain OLB California

7 243 Ethan Kelley DT Baylor

 

2004

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 21 Vince Wilfork DT Miami

1 32 Ben Watson TE Georgia

2 63 Marquise Hill DE Louisiana State

3 95 Guss Scott DB Florida

4 113 Dexter Reid SS North Carolina

4 128 Cedric Cobbs RB Arkansas

5 164 P.K. Sam WR Florida State

7 233 Christian Morton DB Illinois

319830[/snapback]

 

All the guys in bold are either on the team or starters. You're right about that 2003 draft, that one alone is going to keep the Pats rolling for a long time.

 

 

That's 16/34 almost 50%. Not too shabby.

 

Wanna try a similar exercise with TD's picks?

[ajzepp]

Wanna try a similar exercise with TD's picks?

319841[/snapback]

 

AD had a real good comparison of what TD has done vs what the Pats have done since 2001. I think you should dig up that post.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

AD had a real good comparison of what TD has done vs what the Pats have done since 2001. I think you should dig up that post.

319845[/snapback]

 

Thanks for the heads-up. Nothing worse than repeating finished work.

[Realist]

All the guys in bold are either on the team or starters. You're right about that 2003 draft, that one alone is going to keep the Pats rolling for a long time.

That's 16/34 almost 50%. Not too shabby.

 

Wanna try a similar exercise with TD's picks?

319841[/snapback]

 

The Bills' drafts with TD, as I said, I'm okay with his drafts.

 

 

 

2001

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 21 Nate Clements CB Ohio State

2 46 Aaron Schobel DE Texas Christian

2 58 Travis Henry RB Tennessee

3 76 Ron Edwards DT Texas A&M

3 95 Jonas Jennings T Georgia

4 110 Brandon Spoon MLB North Carolina

5 144 Marques Sullivan T Illinois

6 178 Tony Driver FS Notre Dame

6 195 Dan O'Leary TE Notre Dame

6 196 Jimmy Williams CB Vanderbilt

7 214 Reggie Germany WR Ohio State

7 238 Tyrone Robertson DT Hinds CC

 

2002

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 4 Mike Williams T Texas

2 36 Josh Reed WR Louisiana State

2 61 Ryan Denney DE Brigham Young

3 97 Coy Wire SS Stanford

5 139 Justin Bannan DT Colorado

6 176 Kevin Thomas CB Nevada-Las Vegas

7 215 Mike Pucillo G Auburn

7 249 Rodney Wright WR Fresno State

7 251 Jarrett Ferguson RB Virginia Tech

7 260 Dominique Stevenson OLB Tennessee

 

2003

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 23 Willis McGahee RB Miami

2 48 Chris Kelsay DE Nebraska

3 94 Angelo Crowell OLB Virginia

4 111 Terrence McGee CB Northwestern State, La.

4 127 Sam Aiken WR North Carolina

5 151 Ben Sobieski G Iowa

6 187 Lauvale Sape DT Utah

7 228 Mario Haggan MLB Mississippi State

 

2004

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 13 Lee Evans WR Wisconsin

1 22 J.P. Losman QB Tulane

3 74 Tim Anderson DT Ohio State

4 109 Tim Euhus TE Oregon State

7 207 Dylan McFarland T Montana

7 214 Jonathan Smith WR Georgia Tech

[BuckeyeBill]

the game wasn't even close.  The Bills were simply thrashed by Pittsburgh's backups in their biggest test of the year. 

319808[/snapback]

 

Did you watch the same game I did? We had the game basically won. Even when Lindell missed that field goal, we were winning the game. It just stole all our wind out of our sails, and gave Pittsburgh the momentum.

[JDG]

Did you watch the same game I did?  We had the game basically won.  Even when Lindell missed that field goal, we were winning the game.  It just stole all our wind out of our sails, and gave Pittsburgh the momentum.

319852[/snapback]

 

The game was not a blowout, but when you are down by two scores with two minutes left, the game was not a heart-breaker either. Doubly so, given the circumstances.

 

JDG

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

The Bills' drafts with TD, as I said, I'm okay with his drafts.

 

2001

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 21 Nate Clements CB Ohio State

2 46 Aaron Schobel DE Texas Christian

2 58 Travis Henry RB Tennessee

3 76 Ron Edwards DT Texas A&M

3 95 Jonas Jennings T Georgia

4 110 Brandon Spoon MLB North Carolina

5 144 Marques Sullivan T Illinois

6 178 Tony Driver FS Notre Dame

6 195 Dan O'Leary TE Notre Dame

6 196 Jimmy Williams CB Vanderbilt

7 214 Reggie Germany WR Ohio State

7 238 Tyrone Robertson DT Hinds CC

 

2002

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 4 Mike Williams T Texas

2 36 Josh Reed WR Louisiana State

2 61 Ryan Denney DE Brigham Young

3 97 Coy Wire SS Stanford

5 139 Justin Bannan DT Colorado

6 176 Kevin Thomas CB Nevada-Las Vegas

7 215 Mike Pucillo G Auburn

7 249 Rodney Wright WR Fresno State

7 251 Jarrett Ferguson RB Virginia Tech

7 260 Dominique Stevenson OLB Tennessee

 

2003

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 23 Willis McGahee RB Miami

2 48 Chris Kelsay DE Nebraska

3 94 Angelo Crowell OLB Virginia

4 111 Terrence McGee CB Northwestern State, La.

4 127 Sam Aiken WR North Carolina

5 151 Ben Sobieski G Iowa

6 187 Lauvale Sape DT Utah

7 228 Mario Haggan MLB Mississippi State

 

2004

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School

1 13 Lee Evans WR Wisconsin

1 22 J.P. Losman QB Tulane

3 74 Tim Anderson DT Ohio State

4 109 Tim Euhus TE Oregon State

7 207 Dylan McFarland T Montana

7 214 Jonathan Smith WR Georgia Tech

319851[/snapback]

 

Well, that's an eye opener.

 

He's got a higher percentage of players sticking with the team.

 

However...a lot of these guys (Sape, F. SMith, McFarland et al) are backups or should be goners (Denney, Reed, Wire).

 

Is Bannan still on the team? I'm embarassed to ask that one.

 

Still, a shock to me that so many are still hanging around.

[Realist]

Well, that's an eye opener.

 

He's got a higher percentage of players sticking with the team.

 

However...a lot of these guys (Sape, F. SMith, McFarland et al) are backups or should be goners (Denney, Reed, Wire).

 

Is Bannan still on the team? I'm embarassed to ask that one.

 

Still, a shock to me that so many are still hanging around.

319885[/snapback]

 

I was surprised too at how many are still with the team, especially in the last 2 drafts. Still, you're right, it would be nice if more of them were starters.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I was surprised too at how many are still with the team, especially in the last 2 drafts.  Still, you're right, it would be nice if more of them were starters.

319889[/snapback]

 

As for the Iggles, it looks liek 2004 was a weak draft for them, but 2003 was a gem.

 

Hell, their entire starting defensive backfield was drafted in 2003, just about.

[Mickey]

With the long knifes out for Tom 'Ole Whitey' Donahoe, most of the bitching besides the Henry thingy seems to be 'he has yet to get the Bills to the playoffs, his tenure is a failure'. As far as I'm concered Donahoe got the Bills to the playoffs last year.

 

-Jacksonville -Clements knocks down a pass instead of going for an INT- playoffs, don't need the Steeler game

 

-Oakland -Henry doesn't trip over his feet/hash mark -playoffs, don't need the Steeler game

 

-1st Jets game we lost 16-14. A skosh more effort from either the offense or the defense- playoffs, don't need the Steeler game

 

still, with all that and starting out 0-4, Buffalo plays like a team possessed the last half of the season, winning 6 in a row. Pittsburgh becomes our playoff game for all extents and purposes. We all know what happened- Clements muffs a punt, **Bledsoe plays like his SUV is idling outside the stadium waiting to take him back to Montana, defense can't stop the backup to the backup runningback when it matters,etc.

 

Last season was a playoff season in all but name. Sure I'd much rather get to the playoffs for real, and I think we will real soon, but to post that TD's tenure is a failure because Buffalo hasn't yet played a playoff game under him is selling him pretty short.

 

**No Bledsoe's were sacked while making this post

319497[/snapback]

Half the non-playoff teams in the league could come up with the same handful of mistakes that cost them just enough games to miss the dance. The only measure of success in this league for players, coaches, scouts and even GM's is ultimately making the playoffs. I see no reason to give TD a special pass that allows him to escape all blame for a franchise that is Ohfer in his tenure whereas anyother GM in the same position would have to shoulder his part of the blame.

 

I don't know who is worse, those who find that TD can do nothing right or those whose dedication to defending his every move borders on the cultish. Are you guys fans of the team or Donahoe?

[Gavin in Va Beach]

Half the non-playoff teams in the league could come up with the same handful of mistakes that cost them just enough games to miss the dance.  The only measure of success in this league for players, coaches, scouts and even GM's is ultimately making the playoffs.  I see no reason to give TD a special pass that allows him to escape all blame for a franchise that is Ohfer in his tenure whereas anyother GM in the same position would have to shoulder his part of the blame.

 

I don't know who is worse, those who find that TD can do nothing right or those whose dedication to defending his every move borders on the cultish.  Are you guys fans of the team or Donahoe?

319895[/snapback]

 

Oh look, another little suzy sunshine is heard from...

 

Is Donahoe not part of the team?

[ajzepp]

Are you guys fans of the team or Donahoe?

319895[/snapback]

 

Donahoe is largely responsible for why our team is as exciting as it is. How many other teams fans would love to have Willis McGahee in their backfield? Lee Evans? Takeo? Nate? We have a lot of exciting players, and this team is on the verge of making an impact. When TD starts dishing out millions to people like Joe Panos, then maybe I'll distinguish between TD and the team. Until then, I'm a Bills optimist.