formerlyofCtown Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I'm not sure he is still one of the best in the league, but Jerry can still play, I'm not slating him. You said you thought we needed larger ends like 4 posts ago. I'm not a fan of our other edge players. Jefferson I think can play the "big end" role but has ended up in the rotation at DT, Addison is meh and Trent is garbage. If the league is going to continue to allow holding to put up points then yes speed rushers will become obsolete. Technicians will also become obsolete. All the OL will have to do is wrap the guys jersey and it's over. Hell, if this is the new normal then give me a 3-4 Defense. Edited October 29, 2020 by formerlyofCtown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: If the league is going to continue to allow holding to put up points then yes speed rushers will become obsolete. Technicians will also become obsolete. All the OL will have to do is wrap the guys jersey and it's over. Hell, if this is the new normal then give me a 3-4 Defense. It's an interesting point that the 4-3 really became the more successful and sustainable defense in the NFL as the rules changed - especially with regards to holding but also in terms of bumping receivers etc. As of 3 or 4 years ago I think at one point there were only half a dozen of the 32 teams that were using a 3-4 base. It might be slightly higher now.... Denver, Tampa, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Houston, the Giants... I might be missing a couple. Maybe that does cause a change in defences. That said I don't think speed rushers or technicians ever really become obsolete. No more than thumpers became obsolete when the league moved to more speed rushers. One might have the advantage over the other for a while but there is always a place for talented guys whatever style they play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: It's an interesting point that the 4-3 really became the more successful and sustainable defense in the NFL as the rules changed - especially with regards to holding but also in terms of bumping receivers etc. As of 3 or 4 years ago I think at one point there were only half a dozen of the 32 teams that were using a 3-4 base. It might be slightly higher now.... Denver, Tampa, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Houston, the Giants... I might be missing a couple. Maybe that does cause a change in defences. That said I don't think speed rushers or technicians ever really become obsolete. No more than thumpers became obsolete when the league moved to more speed rushers. One might have the advantage over the other for a while but there is always a place for talented guys whatever style they play. I've wondered if they have thought about moving Jerry to Zo's spot. In my opinion Zo and Star are what's missing in this D. Them and our injury list is horrible especially when you consider there are likely unreported injuries to prevent competitive damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) On 10/29/2020 at 9:39 PM, BarleyNY said: I never liked the Star signing. Actually I hated it. I thought they massively overpaid him at the time and he’s done nothing since but support that opinion. Even with the reworked contract he’s still way overpaid IMO. It’s an easy narrative to say the defense is worse because he’s not here, but that doesn’t make it true. Correlation does not equal causality. He hasn’t been good since before he got here, he wouldn’t be much help this season and he won’t be much help next. He’s a serviceable, one dimensional IDL who is average to below average and is paid like he’s a difference maker. It’s been ridiculous. Just the opposite. People want to pretend it's a coincidence that the LBs are playing more poorly against the run this year. But it was in fact wildly obvious that would happen. It was predicted by many, including me, the instant Star opted out, and it's come to pass. Star is far more than serviceable, he's very good. People who go by stats entirely miss Star's value. He frees up the LBs to look great by eating blocks. He'll never be a pass rusher, which is why his salary isn't much higher. He's a guy you want in only on run downs, but on those run downs he makes the whole defense much more effective against the run. You're right that correlation doesn't equal causality. But that's irrelevant. We don't need to confuse them here, the Bills have told us over and over again that Star is a cause and that the effects of having him out there are major and noticeable. He's been a major part of a very very successful defense and the Bills have told you that he's a major reason for that. McDermott knows what his defense needs a ton better than you do. Or me, for that matter. But bringing in a guy they had extensive experience with, paying him more than he'd be worth in other schemes that don't value space eaters, and then guaranteeing his salary the next year and a half tell you very clearly what's going on here, which is that he's a guy they want here. For now and the future. And they don't feel that way because he's "average to below average" or that he's "done nothing but support that decision," both ridiculous statements. On 10/29/2020 at 9:27 AM, without a drought said: If he sticks around for 2021, I would expect them to use the potential out before 2022. Certainly possible they'll get rid of him before 2022 if his game has regressed. If it hasn't, it's quite unlikely. After they guaranteed much of his salary for that year, he would cost $5.1 mill in dead money to cut before the 2022 season. By cutting him they'd save $6.15 mill in salary, a $350K roster bonus, a $250K workout bonus and a $350K Game active bonus if he's active all 16 games. So they'd save $7.1 mill but acquire $5.1 mill in dead money. Cut a guy who they were happy enough with that before the season they guaranteed a year and a half of salary ... all to save $2 mill. In a year when the cap will go back up and when the Bills right now have a projected $103 mill available under the cap. Very unlikely. Bottom line is you may not like him. But they do. Edited October 30, 2020 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Just the opposite. People want to pretend it's a coincidence that the LBs are playing more poorly against the run this year. But it was in fact wildly obvious that would happen. It was predicted by many, including me, the instant Star opted out, and it's come to pass. Star is far more than serviceable, he's very good. People who go by stats entirely miss Star's value. He frees up the LBs to look great by eating blocks. He'll never be a pass rusher, which is why his salary isn't much higher. He's a guy you want in only on run downs, but on those run downs he makes the whole defense much more effective against the run. You're right that correlation doesn't equal causality. But that's irrelevant. We don't need to confuse them here, the Bills have told us over and over again that Star is a cause and that the effects of having him out there are major and noticeable. He's been a major part of a very very successful defense and the Bills have told you that he's a major reason for that. McDermott knows what his defense needs a ton better than you do. Or me, for that matter. But bringing in a guy they had extensive experience with, paying him more than he'd be worth in other schemes that don't value space eaters, and then guaranteeing his salary the next year and a half tell you very clearly what's going on here, which is that he's a guy they want here. For now and the future. And they don't feel that way because he's "average to below average" or that he's "done nothing but support that decision," both ridiculous statements. So you’re saying that the defense went from top 5 to bottom third overnight because a DT who played less than half the defensive snaps in each of the two prior years opted out? Sorry. That makes no sense. And I made a point to watch Star’s play. Believe me when I say that he was not good - and that’s putting it mildly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Off with their heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan692 Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 (edited) On 10/28/2020 at 7:15 PM, without a drought said: Star will be back next year on his restructured contract which is a lot more team friendly. Just not sure how the then 32 year old will be after being out of football for a year and a half. He will be bad. I dont respect the guy opting out really personally I hope they ship him out but that could just be bitterness talking. And until just now I had never considered the possibility that star wasnt happy with a restructured deal and incognitod his way to an opt out. But im gonna dunkirk don this $#@! right now and say thats what happened! Lol Edited November 1, 2020 by BillsFan692 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Slacks Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 59 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said: He will be bad. I dont respect the guy opting out really personally I hope they ship him out but that could just be bitterness talking. And until just now I had never considered the possibility that star wasnt happy with a restructured deal and incognitod his way to an opt out. But im gonna dunkirk don this $#@! right now and say thats what happened! Lol The dude has a preexisting heart condition. What do you expect? At the time Covid was very polarizing and not enough was known about it. I’m hardly upset at the man for choosing to opt out. I hope he and his family are safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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