Zack Ertz, doubt it but

[1ManRaid]

1 hour ago, mattynh said:

Yeah I mean all you have to do is say I will develop player x into a stud and it just happens. 

There is room for more than one. 

Ok, you're right he's a lost cause and we should blow the money we were saving to extend our stars on a guy few think we need.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

We should probably be drafting Pat Freiermuth with our first rounder next year 

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

So, I seriously doubt anything happens at all, but if you had to wonder about one position group, it’s TE.  Now Spotrac has him valued at $12.7 mil.  Probably past what we can do, but just looking at the roster.  Murphy would be $8 mil., Barkley $1.8 mil., Taiwan Jones $900k, Lee Smith $1.7 mil., and so on.  I know it’s probably foolish, but this is the one area We would immediately be better, and he is fantastic.

 

Rip me up on this one, but was hoping we would have gone for this guy.  They are $80 mil. over next year and negotiations have broken off.  The guys I mentioned are not critical.

 

 

They're critical. To different degrees,  but they're all important. What if Allen is injured? Barkley's suddenly the most important guy on the team. 

 

More, you're oversimplifying the money. Cutting Barkley doesn't save $1.8 mill. His bonuses have already been paid. What would be saved is the $1.5 mill of his salary, but somebody else would have to replace him on the roster. Let's say it's someone being paid vet minimum, which is $610K. So you save about $890K by cutting Barkley, and that only if you replace him with somebody at vet minimum, which isn't probably all that likely.

 

Cut Taiwan Jones and you only save his salary, which is $1.05 mill. Again, replace him with a vet min guy and you've saved $400K and downgraded us on STs.

 

When we have a bit of cap money left over, get used to thinking, "Hmm, who can we re-sign this year or next with that money unspent right now."

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Matt_In_NH]

9 hours ago, 1ManRaid said:

Ok, you're right he's a lost cause and we should blow the money we were saving to extend our stars on a guy few think we need.

Did I say any of that?  Nope

[Matt_In_NH]

11 hours ago, 1ManRaid said:

Ok, you're right he's a lost cause and we should blow the money we were saving to extend our stars on a guy few think we need.

 

12 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

No, you have to have patience.  Knox's rookie year is not far off of Ertz's. Errz developed,  albeit in year two, but that's where Knox is heading.  Great players grow so let's see what we have in Knox  before dropping $80 mil on a near 30 year old.  

 

I am on board with Dawson Knox and "developing" him.  However, it is also reasonable to add talent to the position.  There is room for more than one TE.  I am pretty sure Phily is "developing" a guy with Ertz on the team now.  They may offload Ertz due to salary cap concerns which could benefit another team.  I am not super passionate either way with the Ertz concept I am just saying there is room to have your cake and eat it too.  There seems to be no issues with adding WR talent but why not TE?  If Knox goes down, then what, its good to have a couple competent guys there and it does not mean you are giving up on a lost cause or that you don't have patience, it could mean that you are making your team better.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

17 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

So, I seriously doubt anything happens at all, but if you had to wonder about one position group, it’s TE.  Now Spotrac has him valued at $12.7 mil.  Probably past what we can do, but just looking at the roster.  Murphy would be $8 mil., Barkley $1.8 mil., Taiwan Jones $900k, Lee Smith $1.7 mil., and so on.  I know it’s probably foolish, but this is the one area We would immediately be better, and he is fantastic.

 

Rip me up on this one, but was hoping we would have gone for this guy.  They are $80 mil. over next year and negotiations have broken off.  The guys I mentioned are not critical.

 

Before you posted this, by any chance did you actually look at Zack Ertz rookie stats?  They were slightly better than Knox's stats, 36 v 28 catches,  469 v 388 yards, 4 v 2 TD's, and basically the same size and weight.  So how in your wisdom do you know that Knox won't be just as good.  Knox had many drops, though am sure while some were his fault, likely with Allen's accuracy issues likely some weren't the easiest to catch either and that's pretty much his only fault.  (and I'm not saying this as a knock on Allen either, accuracy has improved, but still not great) Exactly how many drops did Ertz have his rookie year BTW?  Ertz 2nd season was up to 58 catches, not amazing by any stretch.  Over the years he's certainly benefited from having a better cast around him too than Knox had last season

 

This is exactly how teams get themselves into trouble with the cap by making dumb moves like this.  You have to cut other players to pay for a guy like Ertz and you then give up on a 3rd round draft pick on top of it.  Will Knox become a great TE, who knows, and no one else knows either, but he's also got too much potential talent not to be out there on a regular basis as a #1 TE to develop..  If he cuts the drops in half,  that would be pretty good.  He also may not get many more chances this year with having a better cast around him too.

[machine gun kelly]

Ed, people are making the leap I posted as an indictment on Knox.  That couldn’t be farther from the truth, and think he is the best TE draft pick since Metz.  I mean that.  What is dumbfounding to me is you have a team about to be $80 mil. over the cap next year.  You look at our roster and what is the weakest position group after Knox, TE.  That doesn’t mean Knox won’t clear up his drops this year.  I’m betting he will.

 

Now look at the Ravens.  They play 13 personnel all the time, so not for you Ed as I know you are good in football talk, but it’s 1 RB, and a 3 TE set.  I can see with this WR Corp us employing if we had a 2nd top TE (notice I said a 2nd), we have another dimension beyond what most likely will be mostly 11 personnel with Diggs, Brown, Beasley, Motor, and Knox.  What if we had some sets with Diggs, Brown, Knox, Ertz, and Motor or Moss?  We have an even more difficult offense for a team to defense.

 

Stop with converting and I don’t mean necessarily you Ed, a comment about a quality TE potentially available, to Knox stinks or we should move on for a rookie.  I’ll give you an example of being patient.  Peyton Manning threw 28 picks his rookie year, so just because Knox dropped the ball, doesn’t mean he won’t grow.

As far as the age of Ertz, he’s 29, not 30, and Travis Kelce just received an obscene amount of $ at 30.  Ertz is ranked as the 3rd best TE in football after Kittle and Kelce.  So considering the 3rd best TE in football (subjective evaluation by many but widely accepted) could be a Bill, and the persons I originally mentioned I have no problem about moving on from as do many of you.  Listen, it was a suggestion, and just wanted to know what you guys thought.  I did say as well, if you think we are so set at TE and the offense we couldn’t use another proven weapon, or we should wait for a TE in the draft as it’s supposed to be solid, ok.  What I’m not crazy about is Kroft, and Smith, and Gilliam hard to tell if he is really a TR or FB.

 

[billsfan89]

14 hours ago, djp14150 said:

You don’t trade capital for a player who turns 30 in the season

 

Ertz is one of the top TE's in the league and not too bad of an injury history. But I agree it is hard to justify significant draft capital and the extension he would want (which would be a 15ish million dollar deal.) Diggs was younger and already on a bigger deal (so the costs were more fixed.) I just don't see how with the Dawkins and Tre extensions adding Ertz a vet on a big contract would make sense. If the Bills want to add a TE I think a rental for cheaper player would make more sense. The TE out of Cleveland would be the type of player I would go after for a mid round pick.