3rdnlng Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: no, you consistently post erroneous information in this forum, and are far from gracious to people who hold apposing views.I am always, ALWAYS, polite to people who have different ideas and don't post drivel and disrespect their fellow posters, you are not one of those posters I don't suffer fools gladly. There are certain posters here who have proven over and over that their posting doesn't reserve any respect. As far as me consistently posting erroneous information here you are as wrong as can be. Prove it.
plenzmd1 Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: I don't suffer fools gladly. There are certain posters here who have proven over and over that their posting doesn't reserve any respect. As far as me consistently posting erroneous information here you are as wrong as can be. Prove it. The last two times i have reponded to your posts, it is because you have posted erroneous information. 1) Your assertion on the level of quarantine for people traveling from China 2) Todays assertion that the Governor of VA was messing with the presidential primary in VA You are the very definition of "poster who has proven over and over that their posting doesn't "reserve" any respect". Edited May 7, 2020 by plenzmd1
3rdnlng Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: The last two times i have reponded to your posts, it is because you have posted erroneous information. 1) Your assertion on the level of quarantine for people traveling from China 2) Todays assertion that the Governor of VA was messing with the presidential primary in VA You are the very definition of "poster who has proven over and over that their posting doesn't "reserve" any respect". Quote me.
Buffalo_Gal Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 9 hours ago, Hedge said: And her GoFundMe is now approaching $300K. The judge isn't letting her out. But, her go fund me is almost at $500K. Wow. 1
plenzmd1 Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Quote me. will you go away for a week if i do?
Q-baby! Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 41 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: I don't suffer fools gladly. There are certain posters here who have proven over and over that their posting doesn't reserve any respect. As far as me consistently posting erroneous information here you are as wrong as can be. Prove it. 3rdnwrong! 21 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: The judge isn't letting her out. But, her go fund me is almost at $500K. Wow. Shows you how stupid people are!
plenzmd1 Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Quote me. before you delete it Edited May 7, 2020 by plenzmd1
shoshin Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 6 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Not just churches. Any 50 person gathering. They are in phase 2 of 5. 3 can start end of May. This is worse than the PA standard. 1 1
dubs Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 9 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said: imagine the (pardon the pun) god complex that a governor must suffer from to think that he/she can ban religious gatherings in the United States. I’d love to see the major religions simultaneously gather in Millennium Park and have a huge mass at the same time.
Nanker Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 10 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: Again, for Gods sake do what you alwaysbitchh about, read thje source documents @3rdnlng posted, or is that only for whenpeoplee dont agree with you. We have one primary date in VA, it is open, Republicans choose not to have any candidate on the ballot due to "overwhelmeing support of President Trump"..from your own link BTW. The link is dated today. does not mean the news is from today..and i know you understand this https://wtop.com/virginia/2020/03/virginia-2020-presidential-primary-voting-guide-everything-you-need-to-know/ Feeling hungry? 1 1
shoshin Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, dubs said: imagine the (pardon the pun) god complex that a governor must suffer from to think that he/she can ban religious gatherings in the United States. I’d love to see the major religions simultaneously gather in Millennium Park and have a huge mass at the same time. He didn’t ban church gatherings. He’s banned all gatherings over 50, including the pagan animal sacrifice circle and atheist superiority complex group meeting. If you want to make this about how his rules are too Draconian, that makes sense. But don’t make it into something it’s not. He’s not targeted churches. Edited May 7, 2020 by shoshin
B-Man Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 (edited) ROBIN HANSON: Why Openers Are Winning. Three main relevant groups have vied lately to influence pandemic policy: public, elites, and experts. Initially, public health experts dominated, even when they screwed up. But then they seemed to publicly assume that it was too late to contain Covid19, and the only viable option was “flattening the curve” to get herd immunity. At that point, elite opinion worldwide objected loudly, and insisted that containment be the official policy. Experts and the public demurred, and elites got their way. Everywhere in the world, all at once, strong lockdown polices began, and containment became the official goal. But elites did not insist on any particular standard containment policy. Such as, for example, the packages of polices that seem to have worked initially in Wuhan or South Korea. Instead elites seemed satisfied to let the politicians and experts in each jurisdiction craft their own policy packages, as long as they seemed “strong”, involving much public sacrifice. And they allowed official public messages suggesting that relatively short durations would be sufficient. A few months later, those duration periods are expiring. And in the different jurisdictions, the diverse policies now sit next to quite diverse outcomes. In some places, infections are low or declining, while in others they are flat or increasing. The public is feeling the accumulated pain, and itching to break out. If these flat or increasing trends continue, containment will fail, and lockdown harms will soon exceed plausible future gains from preventing medical system overload. Elites are now loudly and consistently saying that this is not time to open; we must stay closed and try harder to contain. When confronted with the discouraging recent trends, elites respond with a blizzard of explanations for local failures, and point to a cacophony of prophets with plans and white papers declaring obvious solutions. But, and this is the key point, they mostly point to different explanations and solutions. . . . Winning at politics requires more than just prestige, good ideas, and passion. It also requires compromise, to produce sufficient unity. At this game, elites are now failing, while the public is not. Elites today are too arrogant and entitled to compromise with those they see as beneath them. . Edited May 7, 2020 by B-Man 1
3rdnlng Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 https://www.newsbreak.com/news/0Oyev6Kl/maine-church-sues-over-discriminatory-orders Calvary Chapel of Bangor has filed a federal lawsuit against Maine Gov. Janet Mills for targeting churches and prohibiting in-person and drive-in-stay-in-your-car worship services with a criminal penalty of up to six months in jail and a $1,000 fine for violating her executive orders. The federal lawsuit requests an emergency order against the unconstitutional orders. 1 1
dubs Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 23 minutes ago, shoshin said: He didn’t ban church gatherings. He’s banned all gatherings over 50, including the pagan animal sacrifice circle and atheist superiority complex group meeting. If you want to make this about how his rules are too Draconian, that makes sense. But don’t make it into something it’s not. He’s not targeted churches. When you ban all gatherings of more than 50, are you not violating Article III of the Bill of Rights? Article III: "...make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, ..... or the right of people peaceably to assemble..." I am not even religious, just saying that a Governor (IMO) doesn't have the right to just ban things that are guaranteed in the Constitution, no matter what the situation.
shoshin Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, dubs said: When you ban all gatherings of more than 50, are you not violating Article III of the Bill of Rights? Article III: "...make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, ..... or the right of people peaceably to assemble..." I am not even religious, just saying that a Governor (IMO) doesn't have the right to just ban things that are guaranteed in the Constitution, no matter what the situation. We have discussed this before. All the lockdowns infringe the right to assemble. The rights in the bill of rights often conflict with one another. The often quoted example being that free speech doesn't mean you can yell "fire" in a crowded movie theater. There are many other examples as well, including many rights that get infringed in times of national emergency. Moving from zero gatherings to gatherings of 50 is a step back from infringing people's right to assemble. I do not agree with his plan or staging. It's completely absurd to base the right to assemble in larger numbers on a vaccine, though I appreciate that his criteria has some leeway on the right to assemble. Edited May 7, 2020 by shoshin
dubs Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, shoshin said: We have discussed this before. All the lockdowns infringe the right to assemble. The rights in the bill of rights often conflict with one another. The often quoted example being that free speech doesn't mean you can yell "fire" in a crowded movie theater. There are many other examples as well, including many rights that get infringed in times of national emergency. Moving from zero gatherings to gatherings of 50 is a step back from infringing people's right to assemble. I do not agree with his plan or staging. It's completely absurd to base the right to assemble in larger numbers on a vaccine, though I appreciate that his criteria has some leeway on the right to assemble. I would say this, and I sincerely appreciate your perspective, the longer this has gone on and the more we are learning, the more confident I am in the fact that we have to, as a people, be extraordinarily vigilant in protecting our rights as citizens. No government entity should be able to just suspend rights, even in an outbreak situation. 3
shoshin Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, dubs said: I would say this, and I sincerely appreciate your perspective, the longer this has gone on and the more we are learning, the more confident I am in the fact that we have to, as a people, be extraordinarily vigilant in protecting our rights as citizens. No government entity should be able to just suspend rights, even in an outbreak situation. I agree, but I think the people rattling the chains right now are right to rattle but doing so at the expense of not listening to the other side of this. Every state is reopening, and believe me when I tell you that I HATE/LOATHE my state's reopening criteria, but it's coming. Every governor sees what needs to be done--they just are afraid to misstep. Here in PA, our hospitals took an initial wave that was a little scary then dropped off. Gov. Wolf wants to be careful not to test that capacity again. I think he's being way too careful and I could argue for hours about how crappy his criteria are but I get it. He's trying to make sure we stay closed long enough that we NEVER have to step backwards into closure again. In GA, they opened spas and barbers first. That IMO is too far the other direction. I continue to really like the Trump/CDC reopening guidelines. They always made the most sense and I wish every state was following them. So far it seems only Cuomo is giving them serious weight.
B-Man Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 It could be more than a year before churches are allowed to resume their in-person gatherings, according to Democratic Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker. Pritzker announced a five-phase plan to reopen Illinois that gives guidance to schools, businesses, churches, and other religious centers about when they will be allowed to reopen. In phase three, gatherings of up to 10 people will be allowed. In phase four, gatherings of up to 50 people will be allowed. Gatherings of more than 50 people will not be allowed until phase five. During a press conference on Wednesday, Pritzker confirmed that churches will be held to the same standards and will not be allowed to hold in-person services of more than 50 people until phase five, even if it takes more than a year to get to that position. "You know that in phase three, there can be gatherings, church gatherings, of 10 or fewer. In phase four, 50 or fewer. So that's the guidance that's been given to me," Pritzker said. "I'm not the one providing that guidance. It really is what the scientists and epidemiologists are recommending." Pritzker said the state entered phase two on Friday and will enter phase three on May 29 at the earliest. Face masks will be recommended in public until phase five is reached. Schools, restaurants, and bars will not reopen until phase four. Phase five cannot begin until a vaccine is widely available or a highly effective therapeutic drug is released. Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, has said a vaccine is 12 to 18 months away from being available to the public. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/illinois-governor-says-churches-may-not-reopen-for-a-year-or-more-because-of-coronavirus Alternate headline: In the Name of Public Safety, Illinois Commits Suicide. .
shoshin Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 1 minute ago, B-Man said: It could be more than a year before churches are allowed to resume their in-person gatherings, according to Democratic Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker. Pritzker announced a five-phase plan to reopen Illinois that gives guidance to schools, businesses, churches, and other religious centers about when they will be allowed to reopen. In phase three, gatherings of up to 10 people will be allowed. In phase four, gatherings of up to 50 people will be allowed. Gatherings of more than 50 people will not be allowed until phase five. During a press conference on Wednesday, Pritzker confirmed that churches will be held to the same standards and will not be allowed to hold in-person services of more than 50 people until phase five, even if it takes more than a year to get to that position. "You know that in phase three, there can be gatherings, church gatherings, of 10 or fewer. In phase four, 50 or fewer. So that's the guidance that's been given to me," Pritzker said. "I'm not the one providing that guidance. It really is what the scientists and epidemiologists are recommending." Pritzker said the state entered phase two on Friday and will enter phase three on May 29 at the earliest. Face masks will be recommended in public until phase five is reached. Schools, restaurants, and bars will not reopen until phase four. Phase five cannot begin until a vaccine is widely available or a highly effective therapeutic drug is released. Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, has said a vaccine is 12 to 18 months away from being available to the public. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/illinois-governor-says-churches-may-not-reopen-for-a-year-or-more-because-of-coronavirus Alternate headline: In the Name of Public Safety, Illinois Commits Suicide. A nationally-led response would have stupid governors like IL and GA following the CDC guidelines. Instead will get the pee-in-the-pool scenarios. 1
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