Moral and immoral victories - This week's Buff News Fan column

[BuffaloMatt]

8 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

10 am here. You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning.

I'm in! Definitely will be ugly Really ugly if we lose.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

209 yards and 3.1 ypp is genuinely pathetic. Yes, they scored 17, but they turned the ball over deep in their own territory, and that led to 7. I think "C" is if anything slightly generous. They were playing at home too.  I'd say that they got to 17 because their kicker outperformed his seasonal pace. 

 

EDIT: That is the only game this year in which the Ravens D held an opposing offense to under 4 ypp. It was their best performance of the season on that front, and the Bills were nearly a full yard under 4 ypp (the week before, the 49ers averaged 6.4).  Again, that is pathetic. 

 

I'm sure the SF49ers feel a great sense of moral victory because they racked up 331 yards and scored the same number of points against the Ravens

The Texans and Rams are doubtless also proud that they achieved 23 and 12 more offensive yards than we did, whilst giving up 41 and 45 points to the Ravens offense.  I'm sure the Rams are happy they didn't give up a strip sack fumble and only threw 2 INTs instead.  Houston probably happy they only got picked 1x and  fumbled 1x (1 lost) instead of 2x (1 lost).

 

I mean, seriously, you're all "it's genuinely pathetic" over 23 or 12 yds, and a strip sack fumble vs 2 INTs or 1 fumble, 1 INT?

 

There were two key game turning plays in this game. 

One was the strip-sack fumble on the Bills 24 yd line, due to Knox being completely overmatched against Judon.

The other was the busted coverage 3 plays into the 3Q, which allowed a 2 yard pass to the TE to turn into a 61 yd TD.

 

 

 

 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm sure the SF49ers feel a great sense of moral victory because they racked up 331 yards and scored the same number of points against the Ravens

The Texans and Rams are doubtless also proud that they achieved 23 and 12 more offensive yards than we did, whilst giving up 41 and 45 points to the Ravens offense.  I'm sure the Rams are happy they didn't give up a strip sack fumble and only threw 2 INTs instead.  Houston probably happy they only got picked 1x and  fumbled 1x (1 lost) instead of 2x (1 lost).

 

I mean, seriously, you're all "it's genuinely pathetic" over 23 or 12 yds, and a strip sack fumble vs 2 INTs or 1 fumble, 1 INT?

 

There were two key game turning plays in this game. 

One was the strip-sack fumble on the Bills 24 yd line, due to Knox being completely overmatched against Judon.

The other was the busted coverage 3 plays into the 3Q, which allowed a 2 yard pass to the TE to turn into a 61 yd TD.

 

 

 

 

I’d add the 4-5 overthrown balls in the first 3 drives that were easily 30-50 yard plays if not TDs as game changing.

Edited December 11, 2019 by FireChans

[Hapless Bills Fan]

50 minutes ago, billsfanmiami(oh) said:

I re-watched the final play a few times yesterday and immediately noticed that. Beas comes out of his break right about when josh releases the ball. Minimum, he would have had an easy 1st but very well could have walked in for a score. Brown has single coverage so can’t really fault the read and Josh made a good enough throw to get the score. The DB had great positioning and made a really good play on the ball. He knew the route and made the play. Lots can be learned from the film room.

 

Or he could have been tackled short of the first down and everyone would be all "stupid decision when Brown was open down on the 1 yd line"

Humphrey looks to me like he was already recovering and switching directions, so assuming Beasley hauls it in, making the first would come down to just how quick he is and whether/how well McKensie is able to block his defender and keep him out of the play.  Lots of assumptions.

 

I can't help wondering if Brown couldn't have made some adjustment to screen Peters off from the ball.  But I don't know.

[ProcessYaDigg]

12 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Exactly. Bojo is a mixed bag because there are times in which he shocks you and rocks one, but punter is the last position you'd want a "mixed bag" from on an NFL roster. You don't want some kind of huge disparity per punt. That 65 yarder is great, but the 33 yarder is more harmful than that 65 yarder is helpful.

 

You could argue kicker and QB are in the discussion, but it's only natural that a kicker is going to miss a few and a QB is going to have an off day. There's no reason to accept off days from a punter.

Well said!

[dave mcbride]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm sure the SF49ers feel a great sense of moral victory because they racked up 331 yards and scored the same number of points against the Ravens

The Texans and Rams are doubtless also proud that they achieved 23 and 12 more offensive yards than we did, whilst giving up 41 and 45 points to the Ravens offense.  I'm sure the Rams are happy they didn't give up a strip sack fumble and only threw 2 INTs instead.  Houston probably happy they only got picked 1x and  fumbled 1x (1 lost) instead of 2x (1 lost).

 

I mean, seriously, you're all "it's genuinely pathetic" over 23 or 12 yds, and a strip sack fumble vs 2 INTs or 1 fumble, 1 INT?

 

There were two key game turning plays in this game. 

One was the strip-sack fumble on the Bills 24 yd line, due to Knox being completely overmatched against Judon.

The other was the busted coverage 3 plays into the 3Q, which allowed a 2 yard pass to the TE to turn into a 61 yd TD.

 

 

 

 

I know points are supposed to be the be and end all, but when you watch the game on a play by play basis and judge it accordingly, the fact that that the Bills couldn’t move the ball really sticks out. You can stick to you your metric, which is perfectly fine, but I watched the game and saw an offense that was almost completely overwhelmed and which looked like garbage save for a few plays.

[US Egg]

I cannot relate to moral stories.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

22 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I know points are supposed to be the be and end all, but when you watch the game on a play by play basis and judge it accordingly, the fact that that the Bills couldn’t move the ball really sticks out. You can stick to you your metric, which is perfectly fine, but I watched the game and saw an offense that was almost completely overwhelmed and which looked like garbage save for a few plays.

 

As most people here know, I don't rely on stats.  I watch the games, usually several times including the condensed game in slowmo and the all-22.

 

I guess it all depends upon your point of view.  For most of the game, the vaunted unstoppable Ravens offense couldn't move the ball either.  The exception is that one 61 yd pass play we gave up.  They scored 14 of their 24 points on that one play plus the strip sack where we gave them field position practically in the red zone (24 yd line)

 

Is that because the offense "played like garbage" or because both defenses played lights out?

 

We had plays we could have taken and didn't.  The 1Q was particularly bad in that regard.  I'm very confident in what I see there because Allen echoed it in his presser.

We also had plays we made. 

 

The point I'm trying to make, Dave, is that Context matters.  If that offensive performance had occurred facing a "meh" defense like, say, New Orleans, it would be garbage.

 

But it didn't.  It occurred against a defense that isn't getting the Loooooove that Lamar Jackson gets, but is arguably far more responsible for their success, especially over the last 6 games since they acquired Peters and made some other changes our Guest Fans delineated.  This is a defense that has been making a lot of great offenses look shabby. 

 

We lost.  That means we didn't do enough on offense.  I'm sure we agree on that.

[Kelly the Dog]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

As most people here know, I don't rely on stats.  I watch the games, usually several times including the condensed game in slowmo and the all-22.

 

I guess it all depends upon your point of view.  For most of the game, the vaunted unstoppable Ravens offense couldn't move the ball either.  The exception is that one 61 yd pass play we gave up.  They scored 14 of their 24 points on that one play plus the strip sack where we gave them field position practically in the red zone (24 yd line)

 

Is that because the offense "played like garbage" or because both defenses played lights out?

 

We had plays we could have taken and didn't.  The 1Q was particularly bad in that regard.  I'm very confident in what I see there because Allen echoed it in his presser.

We also had plays we made. 

 

The point I'm trying to make, Dave, is that Context matters.  If that offensive performance had occurred facing a "meh" defense like, say, New Orleans, it would be garbage.

 

But it didn't.  It occurred against a defense that isn't getting the Loooooove that Lamar Jackson gets, but is arguably far more responsible for their success, especially over the last 6 games since they acquired Peters and made some other changes our Guest Fans delineated.  This is a defense that has been making a lot of great offenses look shabby. 

 

We lost.  That means we didn't do enough on offense.  I'm sure we agree on that.

Name all of the players or units on offense that you consider to be “above average” versus the Ravens overall. 
 

 

2 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

I cannot relate to moral stories.

That is because you are immoral or amoral.

[US Egg]

38 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

That is because you are immoral or amoral.

Thank you Dr. Freud.

 

Can I make payments or do you want cash up front ?

[Kelly the Dog]

8 minutes ago, I am the egg man said:

Thank you Dr. Freud.

 

Can I make payments or do you want cash up front ?

Cash of course. In small, non-sequential bills, behind the second tree from the left. Come alone.

[TigerJ]

An immoral victory is any game won by the Patriots?

 

In a more serious reply, while every game is an event and both players and coaches need to have tunnel vision, focused on the next opponent.  At the same time everybody knows the real goal of a team is to make the playoffs, and then keep winning until they can hoist the Lombardi Trophy.  From the beginning of the season, every win takes the team closer to it's initial goal of making the playoffs.  Every loss is a game you'll have to make up for later in the season, until or unless you run out of chances.  Winning the Baltimore game would have put the Bills in the playoffs with 3 weeks left in the season.  Of course, everybody should feel a bit disgusted that they weren't able to pull it off, even though the Bills have 3 more chances to get it. 

 

In a completely different thought track, the overall health of the team (not talking about the physical health of the players), the close loss to the Ravens should suggest to the coaches, players and fans alike that Buffalo overall is a very good team, a team to be reckoned with by the rest of the league.  We are not a team that needs to tank for draft picks or contemplate a complete rebuild.  A few changes the next time Buffalo meets the Ravens, or a team of similar quality, and the results could be different.  A few improvements here and there should insure that the Bills are among the elite teams of the league in 2020, and maybe the reign of the New England Patriots at the top of the AFC East has reached a dead end.  Who would not be encouraged by those thoughts.

Edited December 11, 2019 by TigerJ

[Kelly the Dog]

18 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

An immoral victory is any game won by the Patriots?

Considering that morality means principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior, I would say that it was inarguable.