PetermansRedemption Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 36 minutes ago, DCofNC said: Other than both of your examples being wrong, you are exactly right. Nice elaboration. I’m a sucker for details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 9 hours ago, BuffaloBill said: Clowney says he is “hurt” and others like Bell have played a similar game. What gets me is that the NFLPA agreed to the franchise tag system. Now, individuals don’t want to live up to that group commitment. Where does “hurting the fans” matter in any of this? Houston is arguably a contender this year and Clowney is a part of this. As a fan of a long suffering franchise it sucks to see that a single player can wreak havoc in the dynamics of this. And the nfl agreed to the terms he’s sitting under and you agreed to be a fan. he however was forced to play for a team he didn’t choose under terms he couldn’t really negotiate in a cba he didn’t negotiate... obviously not forced as he could go get a day job, but I tend to really give guys on rookie deals much more leeway than a vet sitting out after deal #2 that they got to negotiate fully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, NoSaint said: And the nfl agreed to the terms he’s sitting under and you agreed to be a fan. he however was forced to play for a team he didn’t choose under terms he couldn’t really negotiate in a cba he didn’t negotiate... obviously not forced as he could go get a day job, but I tend to really give guys on rookie deals much more leeway than a vet sitting out after deal #2 that they got to negotiate fully I TOTALLY see your point, and I agree the rookies get a bit of a raw deal. If they make it they get a vote on the next deal. But let’s face it, a guy with a vote is still only one guy with a vote. In the end you have very little say as an individual over any CBA. As you say, he could find another line of work, and I could find another form of entertainment. The rules are laid out, and we make our choices. People generally act in what they think is their own best interest. I won’t get worked up over it. I think the saddest part may be that they take money up front over long term benefits. I understand why, but these guys need long term healthcare. You can piss away a roster bonus, but what do you do later in life when you really need help? Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Augie said: I TOTALLY see your point, and I agree the rookies get a bit of a raw deal. If they make it they get a vote on the next deal. But let’s face it, a guy with a vote is still only one guy with a vote. In the end you have very little say as an individual over any CBA. As you say, he could find another line of work, and I could find another form of entertainment. The rules are laid out, and we make our choices. People generally act in what they think is their own best interest. I won’t get worked up over it. I think the saddest part may be that they take money up front over long term benefits. I understand why, but these guys need long term healthcare. You can piss away a roster bonus, but what do you do later in life when you really need help? Sad. I’ve long wrestled with the debate between giving these guys absolute freedom (ie max money asap) vs structures to support them long term at the expense of up front cash. A bit of a “bleeding heart libertarian”(?) in that I think they should choose for themselves but think most 21 year olds are incredibly ill equipped for the choice and hate seeing them broke so soon. I support the freedom to mess up but some days my stomach is less equipped to watch it. Maybe auto-enroll them in some programs unless they opt out? The research on opt in vs opt out retirement savings has always been interesting to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, NoSaint said: I’ve long wrestled with the debate between giving these guys absolute freedom (ie max money asap) vs structures to support them long term at the expense of up front cash. A bit of a “bleeding heart libertarian”(?) in that I think they should choose for themselves but think most 21 year olds are incredibly ill equipped for the choice and hate seeing them broke so soon. I support the freedom to mess up but some days my stomach is less equipped to watch it. Maybe auto-enroll them in some programs unless they opt out? The research on opt in vs opt out retirement savings has always been interesting to me. If that would help even a little bit, I’d be ALL for it. My wife’s good friend/co-worker was in a division in one of the giant banks catering to professional athletes. It was a BRUTAL job trying to get the crooked agent or uncle Bob to agree to do what was smart. You can advise, but you can’t MAKE them do what is in their own best interests. Very sad when they crash and burn! . Edited August 30, 2019 by Augie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 11 hours ago, BuffAlone said: I'm willing to bet that by "most Bills fans", you mean you and only you No theres like 2 or 3 others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, NoSaint said: And the nfl agreed to the terms he’s sitting under and you agreed to be a fan. he however was forced to play for a team he didn’t choose under terms he couldn’t really negotiate in a cba he didn’t negotiate... obviously not forced as he could go get a day job, but I tend to really give guys on rookie deals much more leeway than a vet sitting out after deal #2 that they got to negotiate fully They get paid more on their second deal because some Rookie bust is not getting a 100 mil deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: They get paid more on their second deal because some Rookie bust is not getting a 100 mil deal. Right. And because rookies are limited in pay, and don’t pick a team... it hurts my feelings less when they want to negotiate that second deal ASAP than when a guy has signed that deal and doesn’t want to play under it. Which still isn’t a huge deal but I get frustration there more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 7 hours ago, NoSaint said: Right. And because rookies are limited in pay, and don’t pick a team... it hurts my feelings less when they want to negotiate that second deal ASAP than when a guy has signed that deal and doesn’t want to play under it. Which still isn’t a huge deal but I get frustration there more True. In a perfect world everyone honors the agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 20 hours ago, Cornette's Commentary said: I'd be willing to bet that most Bills fans wished O'Brien was our coach, instead of McDermott. You’d lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) If Trent Williams continues to hold out, a trade to Houston might happen . Would Clowney want to go to Washington ? Edited August 30, 2019 by ALF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Each new thread about Clowney brings this board one step closer to anarchy. 9 more days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 22 hours ago, Cornette's Commentary said: I'd be willing to bet that most Bills fans wished O'Brien was our coach, instead of McDermott. Put up a poll and put some money on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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