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Buffalo Sabres and NHL: 2019/20 Next game: Sat. Oct. 19th at 10:30pm

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7 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

LOL!   This board's a hoot.   

You're right.  Passive aggressive interviews about losing passion for the sport are mature and signing a contract, getting bombed and running over a Tim Hortons is professional.

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2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

I think to judge the trade you can't compare STL ROR to Thompson et al. and BUF ROR was terrible.  The cause for any discrepancy is ROR's childish and unprofessional attitude which is not Botterill's fault.  

 

I think it is fair to examine what Murray gave up to get this loser in the first place but even that is iffy.  Murray was horrible but could any GM really expect ROR's poor attitude and drunken  exploits?

Say what you want about his attitude, but he was our best overall player while he was here and he’s doing the same thing in St. Louis. And unless we get a comparable player in return eventually, whether it be Thompson developing, one of the draft picks, or whether it’s using those picks to trade for one, the Sabres got fleeced in the deal.

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5 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

You're right.  Passive aggressive interviews about losing passion for the sport are mature and signing a contract, getting bombed and running over a Tim Hortons is professional.

You can describe him in any way you want as a person. That's your business. But regardless what you think of him and how he handled himself in Buffalo he is one of the best two way players in the league now and when he played in Buffalo. His both ends of the ice style of play makes him a perfectly suited second center on even the best teams in the league. You may be reluctant to admit it but he is one of the primary reasons why the Blues are in the Stanley Cup Championship series.

 

There were more than on ice reasons why he was traded. Whatever negative view you have of him as a person to most people who follow the game it's obvious that his departure created a major void on the roster. And after a season this organization is still trying to fill that void. 

 

ROR had a drunken driving episode. He owned up to that miscue. You act as if because of that incident that he is a perpetual scourge on the community. You are being ridiculous. 

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2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You can describe him in any way you want as a person. That's your business. But regardless what you think of him and how he handled himself in Buffalo he is one of the best two way players in the league now and when he played in Buffalo. His both ends of the ice style of play makes him a perfectly suited second center on even the best teams in the league. You may be reluctant to admit it but he is one of the primary reasons why the Blues are in the Stanley Cup Championship series.

 

There were more than on ice reasons why he was traded. Whatever negative view you have of him as a person to most people who follow the game it's obvious that his departure created a major void on the roster. And after a season this organization is still trying to fill that void. 

 

ROR had a drunken driving episode. He owned up to that miscue. You act as if because of that incident that he is a perpetual scourge on the community. You are being ridiculous. 

They were the worst team in the league the last time ROR was here.  There were no voids to create.  

 

He is playing well for the Blues.  Maybe he has grown up.  Terrific.  In his own words he did not give full effort last year.  He is now giving effort.  If you think that is the mark of a professional then you have low standards.

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2 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

They were the worst team in the league the last time ROR was here.  There were no voids to create.  

 

He is playing well for the Blues.  Maybe he has grown up.  Terrific.  In his own words he did not give full effort last year.  He is now giving effort.  If you think that is the mark of a professional then you have low standards.

It's agreed that the Sabres were one of the worst teams in the league when ROR was here. But that doesn't mean that he was a reason for its ineptitude. He played on a team that lacked talent. He's not a miracle man. Jack Eichel played on the same wretched team. Does that mean that he was the reason why the team was bad or is a reflection on his talent level? Your logic is oddly illogical. 

 

ROR never admitted that he didn't give full effort last year. Where did you come up with that distorted assessment? He stated that he lost his passion for the game. And that was because of the constant losing and the unlikely near term avenue to succeed for this bedraggled team. It may be surprising to you but most people do understand that constant losing can suck the juice out of the most committed competitors. 

 

My standards are high enough to allow me to understand that not liking a player shouldn't prejudice me to the point where I can't fairly judge how a player actually plays. Your assessment of him as a player is not only way off the mark but it is simply zany. 

 

 

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59 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

 

On the radio these guys aren't the smoothest but they do have good chemistry in the booth. There are times when Rivet is simply not in the mood to talk and then Peters knows how to cajole him back into the conversation. I also like Marty Biron when he is added to the mix. Marty has such an engaging personality that when he is being ribbed he is able to maintain his charming composure and keep going on while facing the onslaught. You can tell that these guys genuinely like each other. Although Marty is very talkative he is an excellent analyst and is knowledgeable about the players in the league. So is Rivet and to a lesser extent is Peters. 

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Good interview. Love his quote at the end of the interview about “if I can bring this group together, you could be talking about the Buffalo Sabres a lot next season”. 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

 

Good interview. Love his quote at the end of the interview about “if I can bring this group together, you could be talking about the Buffalo Sabres a lot next season”. 

 

 

It's not about this group as it is adding to this group. If the GM doesn't add some required pieces to the roster he will not be fully utilizing the talents of this smart coach. I'm not talking about bringing in elite players who will probably be unattainable. I'm talking about bringing in a some good players who play right and elevate the play of the others. 

 

My sense of this new coach is that he is not going to tolerate repeated mistakes by the same players. He is going to be more willing to yank players and reduce playing time to players who continue to lag. 

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38 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

 

Good interview. Love his quote at the end of the interview about “if I can bring this group together, you could be talking about the Buffalo Sabres a lot next season”. 

 

 

From his initial teleconference with the media to this latest interview, Krueger continuously shows his cerebral superiority. What a contrast to our last two coaches. Night and day in the brains department. 

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2 hours ago, JohnC said:

It's agreed that the Sabres were one of the worst teams in the league when ROR was here. But that doesn't mean that he was a reason for its ineptitude. He played on a team that lacked talent. He's not a miracle man. Jack Eichel played on the same wretched team. Does that mean that he was the reason why the team was bad or is a reflection on his talent level? Your logic is oddly illogical. 

 

ROR never admitted that he didn't give full effort last year. Where did you come up with that distorted assessment? He stated that he lost his passion for the game. And that was because of the constant losing and the unlikely near term avenue to succeed for this bedraggled team. It may be surprising to you but most people do understand that constant losing can suck the juice out of the most committed competitors. 

 

My standards are high enough to allow me to understand that not liking a player shouldn't prejudice me to the point where I can't fairly judge how a player actually plays. Your assessment of him as a player is not only way off the mark but it is simply zany. 

 

 

Let me ask you this:

 

Have you ever lost your passion for something and still executed it to your highest ability?  Does having a passion for something help increase your effort level?  Do many highly skilled people giving full effort leave their employers feeling compelled to get rid of them?

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38 minutes ago, K-9 said:

From his initial teleconference with the media to this latest interview, Krueger continuously shows his cerebral superiority. What a contrast to our last two coaches. Night and day in the brains department.

Krueger shows his cerebral superiority to all the HCs and GMs in the league. 

 

He is type of person who could give an economic presentation at Davos with no notes and end with him getting a standing ovation from the well credentialed crowd. 

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2 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Let me ask you this:

 

Have you ever lost your passion for something and still executed it to your highest ability?  Does having a passion for something help increase your effort level?  Do many highly skilled people giving full effort leave their employers feeling compelled to get rid of them?

Human beings are not machines. They have emotions and feelings. You bring up this fraudulent issue that he didn't give maximum effort on the ice. I challenge you to find any mention by the organization or other players on his team who criticized him for lack of effort during the games and in preparation for games. You are creating a vicious personal fiction based on nothing but your own prejudices. 

 

The losing and future prospects for the team was getting to him. So he expressed his true feelings. Where is the malignant behavior that you attribute to him? He was honest how he felt. Did you want him to lie and give a dishonest response at the exit interview? It's not unusual that in all pro sports that it is best for players and teams to execute a departure. 

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Let me ask you this:

 

Have you ever lost your passion for something and still executed it to your highest ability?  Does having a passion for something help increase your effort level?  Do many highly skilled people giving full effort leave their employers feeling compelled to get rid of them?

Given his locker clean out day presser and the feelings he expressed about losing his love for the game, etc., I think it's fair to ask these questions. I'm surprised any of the assembled media didn't ask that those questions. 

 

At the very least, orchestrating your way out of town in such a fashion raises questions in my mind about his character. 

Edited by K-9

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1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Human beings are not machines. They have emotions and feelings. You bring up this fraudulent issue that he didn't give maximum effort on the ice. I challenge you to find any mention by the organization or other players on his team who criticized him for lack of effort during the games and in preparation for games. You are creating a vicious personal fiction based on nothing but your own prejudices. 

 

The losing and future prospects for the team was getting to him. So he expressed his true feelings. Where is the malignant behavior that you attribute to him? He was honest how he felt. Did you want him to lie and give a dishonest response at the exit interview? It's not unusual that in all pro sports that it is best for players and teams to execute a departure. 

If the issue is fraudulent then why did the Sabres feel compelled to dump him?

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4 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

If the issue is fraudulent then why did the Sabres feel compelled to dump him?

The issue of fraudulence relates to you saying that he didn't give effort and work hard in his preparations. I asked you to cite  an example where the organization or other players made that scathing claim. You have not cited one example. I'm still waiting. 

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53 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The issue of fraudulence relates to you saying that he didn't give effort and work hard in his preparations. I asked you to cite  an example where the organization or other players made that scathing claim. You have not cited one example. I'm still waiting. 

The organization used actions rather than words to weigh in on what they thought of him and his effort didn't they?  I mean it really is self evident.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

You're right.  Passive aggressive interviews about losing passion for the sport are mature and signing a contract, getting bombed and running over a Tim Hortons is professional.

 

After that story broke my buddy who is big Sabres fan and I were talking.

 

I asked him, is their anything more Canadian than getting hammered and crashing vintage pick up truck into a tim Horton's?

 

He mentioned it every time we've watched him play since.

Edited by Ol Dirty B

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10 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

The organization used actions rather than words to weigh in on what they thought of him and his effort didn't they?  I mean it really is self evident.

 

The Sabres motive for the trade could just as likely (and one to which I subscribe to) be that it was time to make this Eichel's team and not ROR's.   

 

I don't doubt that his teammates--including Jack--looked up to O'Reilly as a guy who gave a strong effort, never bitched about the ineptitude of the front office (until cleanout day--when he very clearly was sending a message that the franchise could not go on like it was) and did what he could to lift  the team.    Given that stature among the players, it would have been very difficult to elevate Eichel to the captaincy, which was the plan from day one.    So Ryan had to go.    

 

That they got so little for him in return is on Botts and his rookie GM learning curve...

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11 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

The organization used actions rather than words to weigh in on what they thought of him and his effort didn't they?  I mean it really is self evident.

What is self-evident is that you are making up stuff based on your own ugly bias. The GM wanted to change the mix in the room and roster for a losing team. He was determined not to maintain the status quo for a flagging team. So he dealt one of his better players who "privately" expressed his frustration and unhappiness. 

 

You act as if ROR acted seditiously when he candidly expressed his feelings. He was honest about how he felt. Are you saying that he should have insincerely proclaim his devotion and happiness to a lost cause? What do you think exit interviews are for? To not be candid? 

 

The GM is not a dope. He knew that what he got in return was not an even deal. I'm not criticizing him for it because sometimes when making a deal you are not in a position of strength. So he got what he could get. In the short term this deal set this team back. But without this deal does the GM deal for Skinner knowing that in the next year he will have to offer him a bonanza contract to keep him? Probably not. And who knows maybe in the not too distant future Tage turns into a consistent 20-25 goal scorer? And maybe with the extra first round pick it can used to acquire a very good player as the extra first round pick in the Kane deal was used to acquire Montour?  

 

In the NHL it's not unusual for good players to be moved for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it is instigated by the players and more often it is instigated by the teams. It happens in all pro sports. You just have to deal with it as best as you can and then move on. You act as if it is a moral cataclysm unique to the Sabres. It's not. It's simply an inescapable part of the business.  

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31 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What is self-evident is that you are making up stuff based on your own ugly bias. The GM wanted to change the mix in the room and roster for a losing team. He was determined not to maintain the status quo for a flagging team. So he dealt one of his better players who "privately" expressed his frustration and unhappiness. 

 

You act as if ROR acted seditiously when he candidly expressed his feelings. He was honest about how he felt. Are you saying that he should have insincerely proclaim his devotion and happiness to a lost cause? What do you think exit interviews are for? To not be candid? 

 

The GM is not a dope. He knew that what he got in return was not an even deal. I'm not criticizing him for it because sometimes when making a deal you are not in a position of strength. So he got what he could get. In the short term this deal set this team back. But without this deal does the GM deal for Skinner knowing that in the next year he will have to offer him a bonanza contract to keep him? Probably not. And who knows maybe in the not too distant future Tage turns into a consistent 20-25 goal scorer? And maybe with the extra first round pick it can used to acquire a very good player as the extra first round pick in the Kane deal was used to acquire Montour?  

 

In the NHL it's not unusual for good players to be moved for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it is instigated by the players and more often it is instigated by the teams. It happens in all pro sports. You just have to deal with it as best as you can and then move on. You act as if it is a moral cataclysm unique to the Sabres. It's not. It's simply an inescapable part of the business.  

I'm done with this as it serves no purpose and has nothing much to do with next season.  Note that we agree that the ROR trade isn't something we see as bad even though we have different reasons for our similar conclusion.  I entered/stay in this portion of the discussion backing you up. 

 

Lurker brings up a new point about the C.  I guess I see that as plausible but ill advised.  Dumping a good player to artificially elevate another seems pretty dumb unless they don't get along.

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I have no idea what really went on regarding ROR. It's done. Let's look forward.

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16 hours ago, K-9 said:

From his initial teleconference with the media to this latest interview, Krueger continuously shows his cerebral superiority. What a contrast to our last two coaches. Night and day in the brains department. 

Really happy about this hire.

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16 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Let me ask you this:

 

Have you ever lost your passion for something and still executed it to your highest ability?  Does having a passion for something help increase your effort level?  Do many highly skilled people giving full effort leave their employers feeling compelled to get rid of them?

You're pretending that the Sabres are suddenly competent in the front office because they moved one of the very best centers in the NHL based on an emotional exit interview after yet another horrific season.  That's not logical in the least and there isn't one person on this planet who gives a ***** about what they do that wouldn't be affected by the consistent losing/incompetence that the Sabres showed during ROR's time with the team.  ROR was not part of the problem in Buffalo.

 

While I understand that most of what you do here is an act, it's incredibly tiresome.

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16 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

You're pretending that the Sabres are suddenly competent in the front office because they moved one of the very best centers in the NHL based on an emotional exit interview after yet another horrific season.  That's not logical in the least and there isn't one person on this planet who gives a ***** about what they do that wouldn't be affected by the consistent losing/incompetence that the Sabres showed during ROR's time with the team.  ROR was not part of the problem in Buffalo.

 

While I understand that most of what you do here is an act, it's incredibly tiresome.

 

And you’re pretending that the Sabres front office acted on a public pronouncement by a malcontent talent.   As is always the case, whether the front office is incompetent or not, they know far more on what’s actually going on with the team than any one looking from the outside in.    Given the assets Sabres used to acquire O’Reilly and then dump him a few years later, certainly indicates there were bigger issues at play than his petulant clean-out interview.

 

I also don’t understand the point of how he should be upset with Sabres unloading young talent to build a team, since they used young talent as the trading chip to acquire HIM.

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