Wsam4031 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Other Franchises happy to be known for having legit franchises and winning. Bills fans happy to be known as the Class Clowns, the Drunks and league laughable fan base. I would be curious to know what NFL fan bases you are talking about. Raider game 2 years ago a guy in san fran gear gets stabbed, Philly has its own jail at the stadium, i cant even get started on NE 3x as many fights and drunk morons as buffalo, Pitt same as NE. The only difference is we had a few people jump through tables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I’m in commercial insurance (and we write an NFL team out of our office and 8 in the US) and @MAJBobby is 100% right that will happen. That is the entire reason that the Bills are curtailing it. You can still jump through tables in private lots I guess. The Bills do not want to be held accountable for a death or worse (in the insurance world) a paralyzation. Insurance rates are tied to the profitability of specific lines. They are [NOT] just random guesses, they are an equation based on the law of large numbers. I think you missed a word. Thank you for giving the perspective of someone in the industry. Am I correct in that the liability is also driven by how foreseeable an occurance may be? Eg: in this situation, where the behavior is ongoing (thus known) and fans have already been injured (broken leg etc), it's quite foreseeable that a worse injury may occur. If the Bills don't take action, their liability risk is greater? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Just now, Rockpile233 said: What is there to say? I think people who jump drunkenly through tables are stupid too, but I also am not trying to engineer the behavior of 70,000 people. “Forcing” people to grow up is a fools errand. But you are not also the one carrying the insurance on those lots are you. You are not the owners of the team that is embarrassed every Sunday buy what is going on in the lots are you. You are not the County that is spending an arm and a leg attending to the idiots. All because a group of people cannot go to a Football Game, Act like adults and Watch a Football Game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, Rockpile233 said: There are dozens of private lots that will accommodate idiocy. This will have zero impact on reducing viral table videos. It only takes one every week. I see this as more pushing the idiots to private lots while soaking the responsibile groups. Hopefully people take advantage of bringing their own items, but it’s just enough of an inconvienience for them to push the catering. I love these offered services, but not when you’re forcing large groups into it. Should stand on its’ own merits. I try to patronize the private lots anyway. From the Bills perspective, that would be what they want. If it happens on someone else's property, it's someone else's liability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockpile233 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Just now, Wsam4031 said: I would be curious to know what NFL fan bases you are talking about. Raider game 2 years ago a guy in san fran gear gets stabbed, Philly has its own jail at the stadium, i cant even get started on NE 3x as many fights and drunk morons as buffalo, Pitt same as NE. The only difference is we had a few people jump through tables. Worse examples with European soccer. Examples throughout all of American sports. Buffalo does not have the market cornered on stupid fan actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Wsam4031 said: I would be curious to know what NFL fan bases you are talking about. Raider game 2 years ago a guy in san fran gear gets stabbed, Philly has its own jail at the stadium, i cant even get started on NE 3x as many fights and drunk morons as buffalo, Pitt same as NE. The only difference is we had a few people jump through tables. Sure ok keep your Blinders on. Obviously the Bills have not. And now these fans will face the consequences that they brought on themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wsam4031 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think you missed a word. Thank you for giving the perspective of someone in the industry. Am I correct in that the liability is also driven by how foreseeable an occurance may be? Eg: in this situation, where the behavior is ongoing (thus known) and fans have already been injured (broken leg etc), it's quite foreseeable that a worse injury may occur. If the Bills don't take action, their liability risk is greater? I am also in the industry and You are correct but negligence needs to be shown that the Bills did nothing. By having Police patrol the area and having signs on their lot that specifically states " No jumping through tables" they have made an attempt to stop the behavior. I'm not saying that a sign is really something but from a liability issue they can argue we have increased police presence and notified the people in our lots. Remember jumping through a table is not illegal so police cannot arrest based on the sign but they can enforce it if posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 13 minutes ago, Wsam4031 said: they cant be held liable unless there is shown negligence on their part. They have signs about jumping through tables they have security. They are hardly negligent on this. I would have to disagree with you and say they have no claim. Doesn't mean they wouldn't be sued, just saying they would never make a dime guess we just got 2 different views on this The negligence is the lack of security and control. This isn’t even a discussion. It’s a fact. They would certainly be held accountable which is why they are trying to stop it. 5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think you missed a word. Thank you for giving the perspective of someone in the industry. Am I correct in that the liability is also driven by how foreseeable an occurance may be? Eg: in this situation, where the behavior is ongoing (thus known) and fans have already been injured (broken leg etc), it's quite foreseeable that a worse injury may occur. If the Bills don't take action, their liability risk is greater? Ha ha, I did, I missed it. Thanks Hap!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Wsam4031 said: I am also in the industry and You are correct but negligence needs to be shown that the Bills did nothing. By having Police patrol the area and having signs on their lot that specifically states " No jumping through tables" they have made an attempt to stop the behavior. I'm not saying that a sign is really something but from a liability issue they can argue we have increased police presence and notified the people in our lots. Remember jumping through a table is not illegal so police cannot arrest based on the sign but they can enforce it if posted Incorrect. Signs don’t do anything to release liability. Ask Disney 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockpile233 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: But you are not also the one carrying the insurance on those lots are you. You are not the owners of the team that is embarrassed every Sunday buy what is going on in the lots are you. You are not the County that is spending an arm and a leg attending to the idiots. All because a group of people cannot go to a Football Game, Act like adults and Watch a Football Game No, I’ve been in the seats for 12 years embarrassed with what is on the field. You can can cry all you want about it. If they want to crack down on parking lot behavior it is their right, but I have stated my bigger issue is how this has turned into a forced service to prop up their sponsored tailgates. Stop making this an image decision. This was strictly a financial decision. That is fine as they are a business, but I’m certainly not applauding them for saving us from ourselves! Edited May 2, 2019 by Rockpile233 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think you missed a word. Thank you for giving the perspective of someone in the industry. Am I correct in that the liability is also driven by how foreseeable an occurance may be? Eg: in this situation, where the behavior is ongoing (thus known) and fans have already been injured (broken leg etc), it's quite foreseeable that a worse injury may occur. If the Bills don't take action, their liability risk is greater? It is mostly tied to the losses by line, in an area. So the forecasting and rates are based on how profitable they’ve been. Carriers wrote to a 40% loss ratio in most cases. It sucks for the “clean” accounts because they are rolled in with others in the region and their SiC code to identify and determine the likelihood of a loss. In this situation, they may even have exclusions written into their policy because the behavior is known. The carrier may not offer coverage for this particular situation. The team will either have to find someone that will or self-insure it if that’s the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wsam4031 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, MAJBobby said: Incorrect. Signs don’t do anything to release liability. Ask Disney so if i have a sign posted beware of dog and u jump my fence to my backyard and the dog attacks you its my fault because signs don't release liability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Rockpile233 said: No, I’ve been in the seats for 12 years embarrassed with what is on the field. You can can cry all you want about it. If they want to crack down on parking lot behavior it is their right, but I have stated my bigger issue is how this has turned into a forced service to prop up their sponsored tailgates. Stop making this an image decision. This was strictly a financial decision. That is fine as they are a business, but I’m certainly not applauding them for it. How. Because you have to pay 15 a head to have a safe secure and adult like tailgate and still can bring you own food and Beer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wsam4031 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Rockpile233 said: No, I’ve been in the seats for 12 years embarrassed with what is on the field. You can can cry all you want about it. If they want to crack down on parking lot behavior it is their right, but I have stated my bigger issue is how this has turned into a forced service to prop up their sponsored tailgates. Stop making this an image decision. This was strictly a financial decision. That is fine as they are a business, but I’m certainly not applauding them for it. I do agree with you on that point its their property and they can do what they want. 100% agreed on that. It sucks for those of us who take the bus and have a good, responsible time doing so. We've been doing it for years and will not be doing it this year. It sucks because we have a lot of fun doing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Wsam4031 said: so if i have a sign posted beware of dog and u jump my fence to my backyard and the dog attacks you its my fault because signs don't release liability Different as I am breaking the law. Just ask Disney. See lawsuits all the time down here because an idiot did something they shouldn’t have done on their Property and got Hurt. Even if if it isn’t paid out BILLABLE hours being laid out to get it dismissed. So yeah Signs do not release you of liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wsam4031 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, MAJBobby said: How. Because you have to pay 15 a head to have a safe secure and adult like tailgate and still can bring you own food and Beer? they said you can bring your own food but never said you can bring your own drinks did they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Incorrect. Signs don’t do anything to release liability. Ask Disney This isn’t even debatable. The team would 100% be held accountable in this situation, as would the county, police, parking administrators, etc... If someone jumped off a bus and ended up paralyzed they all would be pulled into the suit. Their insurance covers the defense as well. They would almost certainly settle for a big amount while racking up legal bills. I would venture to say that a paralyzation from this would make it to the Bills umbrella carrier. That is another GIANT concern of NFL teams. Currently, there is really only one umbrella carrier that covers for traumatic brain injury (CTE). Pretty much every team has their first $20m-$25M umbrella placed with that carrier. The other $50M (which is what most carry $75m total) is placed elsewhere. If that primary umbrella carrier ever dropped the Bills they would be on the hook for all traumatic brain injury beyond $1M. This is a NIGHTMARE scenario for them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Wsam4031 said: so if i have a sign posted beware of dog and u jump my fence to my backyard and the dog attacks you its my fault because signs don't release liability Different. If I was invited into your backyard and that dog bit me because I did something stupid like jumped and startled him absolutely your Homeowners insurance would pay out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Wsam4031 said: they said you can bring your own food but never said you can bring your own drinks did they? You can bring drinks, grills, etc... https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/bills-bus-lot-q-and Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wsam4031 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, MAJBobby said: Different. If I was invited into your backyard and that dog bit me because I did something stupid like jumped and startled him absolutely your Homeowners insurance would pay out 100% correct. there are 100 different scenarios we can go through on this it just depends on the situation Edited May 2, 2019 by Wsam4031 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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