Livinginthepast Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: SJ under Gailey is probably not a great example because Gailey taught "beat your man, get to the spot" rather than crisp route running. Stevie struggled when he moved to teams where the latter was expected. But the principle is sound, the WR ideally needs to "sell" the defender that he's running a different route than he actually is. Our guys are poor salesmen. This is exactly right. When was the last time you saw one of our wide receivers fake a db out of his shoes? or even make them turn the wrong direction on a cut? They don't seem to be able to juke or double move in any deceptive way at all. Which is bizarre to me. Some of these guys have been playing the position for more than a decade from pop warner on, yet there is little in the way of expertise shown! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Not sure you can coach separation. You can certainly coach route running. Guys that played with Brady would talk about how he'd go nuts if you were supposed to run a ten yard out and you broke at 9 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 There are basically three different ways to get separation: Speed - This obviously cannot be taught. Scheme - This has more to do with the coordinator/playcaller than the receiver. Route Running - This is a combination of physical skill and technique, which can certainly be taught and improved. The Bills don't really have much speed at the WR position, and the few guys who are fast... can't catch. Daboll's scheme is very bland/generic and doesn't do anything special to get players open. Zay Jones seems to be improving on his route running, but he needs his QB to throw with better anticipation. Kelvin Benjamin gets very little separation and basically just uses his size. He needs his QB to have better placement, so he can win jump balls and box out defenders. So while lack of WR talent is certainly an issue, I have no doubts that our receivers would be looking much better with improved QB play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cage Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, mjt328 said: There are basically three different ways to get separation: Speed - This obviously cannot be taught. Scheme - This has more to do with the coordinator/playcaller than the receiver. Route Running - This is a combination of physical skill and technique, which can certainly be taught and improved. The Bills don't really have much speed at the WR position, and the few guys who are fast... can't catch. Daboll's scheme is very bland/generic and doesn't do anything special to get players open. Zay Jones seems to be improving on his route running, but he needs his QB to throw with better anticipation. Kelvin Benjamin gets very little separation and basically just uses his size. He needs his QB to have better placement, so he can win jump balls and box out defenders. So while lack of WR talent is certainly an issue, I have no doubts that our receivers would be looking much better with improved QB play. Another substantial advantage that we don't seem to use is height. Between Benjamin, Holmes, Clay, Croom and Thomas we have 5 receivers between 6'4" and 6'6". We never seem be able to isolate any of these guys on the short CB and just automatically convert and 3rd and <5 by exploiting that advantage A bit different form of separation, but we need to use what we got... Edited November 1, 2018 by cage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 11 hours ago, ChicagoRic said: I'm constantly hearing that our wide receivers can't get separation. I know that speed is a factor but it can't be the only thing. Is it scheme? Is it coaching? Is it really just a lack of talent? Enlighten me. You can teach other WRs to pick off the defense which always works for New England, the key is it has to be done within the first two yards of scrimmage otherwise you get flagged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 (edited) Seperation is a combination of route running, timing, and QB accuracy. Route running can be coached, mostly its about the player working at it. Repetition. The rest is all QB. Edited November 1, 2018 by TheTruthHurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: SJ under Gailey is probably not a great example because Gailey taught "beat your man, get to the spot" rather than crisp route running. Stevie struggled when he moved to teams where the latter was expected. But the principle is sound, the WR ideally needs to "sell" the defender that he's running a different route than he actually is. Our guys are poor salesmen. Not saying SJ was ever a traditional crisp route runner. Stevie used unorthodox ways to get open. Basketball moves off the line, basically. What he DIDN’T use, which was my point, was speed to get open. Lots of ways to be a productive receiver in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Absolutely. Seperation is knowing the play and the discipline, aptitude and consistency to run that crisp route every time. All those things can be coached. The NFL's greatest receivers have one thing in common, regardless of when they played: All top-shelf route runners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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