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Syracuse Basketball 2019-2020

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For what it's worth, one of the guys I trust is saying we're out on Stewart at this point barring something unforeseen changing.

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38 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

For what it's worth, one of the guys I trust is saying we're out on Stewart at this point barring something unforeseen changing.

 

Bummer...

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On 11/4/2018 at 6:01 PM, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Yes.  And this is the person likely behind a lot of Calipari’s recruiting “victories.”

 

https://www.gq.com/story/william-wesley-worldwide-wes-nba-basketball

I have to believe that at some point someone will dig deep enough into Calipari and find the dirt on how he has paid players for years.  You just can’t get that many blue chippers without doing something dirty

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2 minutes ago, nemhoff said:

I have to believe that at some point someone will dig deep enough into Calipari and find the dirt on how he has paid players for years.  You just can’t get that many blue chippers without doing something dirty

 

PayCal 😂

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12 hours ago, nemhoff said:

I have to believe that at some point someone will dig deep enough into Calipari and find the dirt on how he has paid players for years.  You just can’t get that many blue chippers without doing something dirty

 

I'm no Calipari/Kentucky fan but I disagree with your premise.  Yes, there are dirty coaches and programs, but I do still believe they are the exception rather than the rule.  Kentucky is far too high profile to be getting these recruits through impermissible benefits.  What Calipari has done is to build a reputation around an already legendary program that you'll come in, you'll play, you may compete for a championship, and you'll be drafted highly.  Why wouldn't a kid want to go there for a year?

 

Edited by eball

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4 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I'm no Calipari/Kentucky fan but I disagree with your premise.  Yes, there are dirty coaches and programs, but I do still believe they are the exception rather than the rule.  Kentucky is far too high profile to be getting these recruits through impermissible benefits.  What Calipari is done is to build a reputation around an already legendary program that you'll come in, you'll play, you may compete for a championship, and you'll be drafted highly.  Why wouldn't a kid want to go there for a year?

 

Yeah, just like UNC basketball is too “high profile” of a program to get away with years of well-documented, egregious academic fraud.  So there’s that...

 

Also, a coach doesn’t necessarily have to hand out checks to recruits to be associated with foul recruiting practices.  They often have agents, sneaker execs, and other people like WWW to do their evil deeds for them.

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1 hour ago, eball said:

 

I'm no Calipari/Kentucky fan but I disagree with your premise.  Yes, there are dirty coaches and programs, but I do still believe they are the exception rather than the rule.  Kentucky is far too high profile to be getting these recruits through impermissible benefits.  What Calipari has done is to build a reputation around an already legendary program that you'll come in, you'll play, you may compete for a championship, and you'll be drafted highly.  Why wouldn't a kid want to go there for a year?

 

 

I think the perfectly clean programs are the exception honestly. I know of guys that were on the end of the benches in college that were getting paid by their schools, and for example, you have a school like Kansas (who are easily right up there with Kentucky as far as high profile goes) offering Zion Williamson money/Zion requesting money and then he ends up at Duke and we're supposed to believe he passed up on all of that to play at Duke for free? I don't buy it. I think the FBI hearings showed beyond a shadow of a doubt that impermissable benefits is a very widespread thing.

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4 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Yeah, just like UNC basketball is too “high profile” of a program to get away with years of well-documented, egregious academic fraud.  So there’s that...

 

Also, a coach doesn’t necessarily have to hand out checks to recruits to be associated with foul recruiting practices.  They often have agents, sneaker execs, and other people like WWW to do their evil deeds for them.

 

UNC didn't get away with academic fraud.  It was a huge embarrassment to the school's academic reputation, and with respect to sports they paid dearly in YEARS of having it hang over their heads during recruiting season for both basketball and football.  They had a local paper (Raleigh N&O) leading the witch hunt.  And I'm fairly certain you don't know the half of the story anyway.  If the NCAA could have proven the basketball program had anything to do with the scam classes they'd have nailed them to the wall.  But carry on.

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51 minutes ago, eball said:

 

UNC didn't get away with academic fraud.  It was a huge embarrassment to the school's academic reputation, and with respect to sports they paid dearly in YEARS of having it hang over their heads during recruiting season for both basketball and football.  They had a local paper (Raleigh N&O) leading the witch hunt.  And I'm fairly certain you don't know the half of the story anyway.  If the NCAA could have proven the basketball program had anything to do with the scam classes they'd have nailed them to the wall.  But carry on.

 

Yeah, over 40 percent of the students enrolled in the ***** classes were either basketball or football players, but because they couldn’t directly link either program neither were punished for academic fraud.  Although, they were essentially producing illiterate student athletes.  But why would the NCAA conclude that the basketball program was guilty of being involved in something so atrocious?  It’s because the NCAA is corrupt, and serious sanctions on the UNC basketball program would cost them mega-bucks.  But carry on....

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, DCOrange said:

 

I think the perfectly clean programs are the exception honestly. I know of guys that were on the end of the benches in college that were getting paid by their schools, and for example, you have a school like Kansas (who are easily right up there with Kentucky as far as high profile goes) offering Zion Williamson money/Zion requesting money and then he ends up at Duke and we're supposed to believe he passed up on all of that to play at Duke for free? I don't buy it. I think the FBI hearings showed beyond a shadow of a doubt that impermissable benefits is a very widespread thing.

 

I wouldn’t disagree with you.  Major college sports are big business.  Hence, the NCAA is willing to brush a lot of this stuff under the rug.

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10 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Yeah, over 40 percent of the students enrolled in the ***** classes were either basketball or football players, but because they couldn’t directly link either program neither were punished for academic fraud.  Although, they were essentially producing illiterate student athletes.  But why would the NCAA conclude that the basketball program was guilty of being involved in something so atrocious?  It’s because the NCAA is corrupt, and serious sanctions on the UNC basketball program would cost them mega-bucks.  But carry on....

 

 

 

An incredibly small number of students, and one freaking AFAM studies class.  Yeah, they were "producing illiterate student athletes."  Dude, it was a huge embarrassment for the school but it wasn't what folks want to make it out to be.  UNC suffered plenty for their mistake in not identifying the issue sooner, but I might even argue it made Roy Williams a better coach as he produced ridiculously successful teams while being unable to grab the top recruits!

 

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6 minutes ago, eball said:

 

An incredibly small number of students, and one freaking AFAM studies class.  Yeah, they were "producing illiterate student athletes."  Dude, it was a huge embarrassment for the school but it wasn't what folks want to make it out to be.  UNC suffered plenty for their mistake in not identifying the issue sooner, but I might even argue it made Roy Williams a better coach as he produced ridiculously successful teams while being unable to grab the top recruits!

 

 

Oh the poor University.  I’m sure Roy Williams cried himself to sleep every single night ridden with shame.  Everyone with any knowledge of sports knows that, everything included, this was the largest case of academic fraud in the history of college sports.  Yeah, keep defending the university and the coaches who clearly had NO IDEA what was going on....yeah right.

 

Yet, in addition to a self-imposed post season ban, what sanctions did Syracuse basketball receive when Fab Melo had a term paper written for him?  Vacated 108 of Boeheim’s wins?  Lost 12 scholarships...just to name a couple?

 

Yeah, we’ll all weep for UNC...

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Oh the poor University.  I’m sure Roy Williams cried himself to sleep every single night ridden with shame.  Everyone with any knowledge of sports knows that, everything included, this was the largest case of academic fraud in the history of college sports.  Yeah, keep defending the university and the coaches who clearly had NO IDEA what was going on....yeah right.

 

Yet, in addition to a self-imposed post season ban, what sanctions did Syracuse basketball receive when Fab Melo had a term paper written for him?  Vacated 108 of Boeheim’s wins?  Lost 12 scholarships...just to name a couple?

 

Yeah, we’ll all weep for UNC...

 

 

 

 

SU been playing with 6-7 guys because of sanctions lol

 

But NC so holy 😭

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41 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Oh the poor University.  I’m sure Roy Williams cried himself to sleep every single night ridden with shame.  Everyone with any knowledge of sports knows that, everything included, this was the largest case of academic fraud in the history of college sports.  Yeah, keep defending the university and the coaches who clearly had NO IDEA what was going on....yeah right.

 

Yet, in addition to a self-imposed post season ban, what sanctions did Syracuse basketball receive when Fab Melo had a term paper written for him?  Vacated 108 of Boeheim’s wins?  Lost 12 scholarships...just to name a couple?

 

Yeah, we’ll all weep for UNC...

 

 

If you thought I was seeking sympathy for UNC you are mistaken.  And no, Roy didn't cry tears of shame at all because he knew he had nothing to do with what happened and he was angry about it, as well as being angry that he had to talk about it to every kid and their parents whose homes he visited.

 

I get it that people want to hate on programs like UNC, who really have done things the right way.  I know this is a Syracuse thread and I'm in enemy territory.  But if there was any shred of evidence tying Roy and his program to the AFAM fraud it would have been exposed.  I mean, they did 7-8 years of digging and could come up with nothing.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing what Roy does now that he finally nabbed a superstar recruit (Nassir Little).  Have a good one; I hope it's a great basketball season.

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2 hours ago, eball said:

 

If you thought I was seeking sympathy for UNC you are mistaken.  And no, Roy didn't cry tears of shame at all because he knew he had nothing to do with what happened and he was angry about it, as well as being angry that he had to talk about it to every kid and their parents whose homes he visited.

 

I get it that people want to hate on programs like UNC, who really have done things the right way.  I know this is a Syracuse thread and I'm in enemy territory.  But if there was any shred of evidence tying Roy and his program to the AFAM fraud it would have been exposed.  I mean, they did 7-8 years of digging and could come up with nothing.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing what Roy does now that he finally nabbed a superstar recruit (Nassir Little).  Have a good one; I hope it's a great basketball season.

 

 

I’ll drop it right here and wish UNC a good season (except when they play SU), but if you think Roy boy had no knowledge of this you are either oblivious or ignorant.  And if you think Rashad was the only player involved just because he was the only one to come forward, you also are living in a dream world.

 

I think these types of practices are wide spread across major college basketball programs, but you can’t just ignore or deny it because you are a fan.  This particular academic scandal is unparalleled, and if you ask me (and most non UNC fans), they would say that UNC basketball got off with a slap on the wrist.

 

Again, look at the penalties levied against Syracuse for a good comparison.

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21 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

 

I’ll drop it right here and wish UNC a good season (except when they play SU), but if you think Roy boy had no knowledge of this you are either oblivious or ignorant.  And if you think Rashad was the only player involved just because he was the only one to come forward, you also are living in a dream world.

 

I think these types of practices are wide spread across major college basketball programs, but you can’t just ignore or deny it because you are a fan.  This particular academic scandal is unparalleled, and if you ask me (and most non UNC fans), they would say that UNC basketball got off with a slap on the wrist.

 

Again, look at the penalties levied against Syracuse for a good comparison.

I have no doubt that the coach and the athletic department knew what was going on with the academic side of program. But I have little sympathy for the players who were willing participants to this sham class work. No one pulled the wool over their eyes and hustled them. They were as much a part of this fraud as those in the department who set it up. They took the easy road with their class work responsibilities. Now that they are out of school they realized that in the end they allowed themselves to be used and their education, whether they got a degree or not, means little. I have little doubt that these same players who are complaining about the program skated through the academic work even in high school. They knew the system and they embraced it. 

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17 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I have no doubt that the coach and the athletic department knew what was going on with the academic side of program. But I have little sympathy for the players who were willing participants to this sham class work. No one pulled the wool over their eyes and hustled them. They were as much a part of this fraud as those in the department who set it up. They took the easy road with their class work responsibilities. Now that they are out of school they realized that in the end they allowed themselves to be used and their education, whether they got a degree or not, means little. I have little doubt that these same players who are complaining about the program skated through the academic work even in high school. They knew the system and they embraced it. 

 

Agree on all accounts except for the thought that the coaching staff being oblivious to this.  There is no way.  

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1 hour ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Agree on all accounts except for the thought that the coaching staff being oblivious to this.  There is no way.  

If you re-read my post you should come to the conclusion that I said the opposite of what you think I said i.e. they were aware of the fraudulent situation. 

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49 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If you re-read my post you should come to the conclusion that I said the opposite of what you think I said i.e. they were aware of the fraudulent situation. 

 

Sorry.  I misread that somehow.  Cheers, man.  

 

🍊🍊

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14 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Agree on all accounts except for the thought that the coaching staff being oblivious to this.  There is no way.  

 

12 hours ago, JohnC said:

If you re-read my post you should come to the conclusion that I said the opposite of what you think I said i.e. they were aware of the fraudulent situation. 

 

And if you read my posts they mention only Roy.  I truly believe Roy had no knowledge of the paper classes.  He simply told players they needed to go to class or they would be ineligible, and that the team had academic advisors to assist the players.  I don't know what any of those advisors did or didn't know about the "paper classes" and I think it's reasonable that the coaching staff didn't concern themselves with the actual classwork.  It's probably largely a matter of semantics regarding who "knew" something vs. who purposefully didn't want or try to know.  I think Roy preaches academics and accountability to his players (and believes it) but delegates the rest of it to the academic advisors.

 

In any event, it was an ugly, embarrassing matter for UNC no matter how you slice it.  I'm simply not willing to place blame upon Roy for it.

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