Thurman#1 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Young34 said: To further your point, blowing draft capital on one position is how you end up like the Browns: 2007 - Brady Quinn, 1st Round 2010 - Colt McCoy, 3rd Round 2012 - Brandon Weeden, 1st Round 2014 - Johnny Manziel, 1st Round 2016 - Cody Kessler, 1st Round 2017 - DiShone Kizer, 2nd Round 2017 - A.J. McCarron (2nd and 3rd Round 2018 Picks) That's 4 first Round QB's, two 2nd Round QB's, and a 3rd Round QB in 10 years. Browns record for the last 10 years: 2007 - 10/6 2008 - 4/12 2009 - 5/11 2010 - 5/11 2011 - 4/12 2012 - 5/11 2013 - 4/12 2014 - 7/9 2015 - 3/13 2016 - 1/15 2017 - Perfect Season I would absolutely love to be in the Browns position. Absolutely love it. They're sitting pretty and look in terrific shape. And the problem wasn't spending too many picks on one position. It was choosing the wrong guys. Picking Manziel for instance, was just dumb. Now they look set to spend yet another high pick on the same position and become a consistent winner for a decade or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRush Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Young34 said: It's true, Eagles jumped and it paid off. My point is that some people claim to draft a QB in high year after year until you hit gold. That eats up a TON of draft capital, and ends up weakening teams at other essential positions. Like the Browns, drafted a QB in the first 3 rounds 7 out of 10 years, and sucked for nearly a decade as a result. The argument to that is... you need to have competent people making those draft decisions. How many QB prospects did Cleveland miss? They had the right idea - they just made the wrong selections. Much like the Sabres over the past few seasons, draft picks are great but you need to hit on those picks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Cruiserplayer said: Unless there is a can’t miss you have to use this draft capital somewhere else. Even it means trading one or both of our first this year for the gamble to be higher on the pecking order on the future. This is something to consider. But another thing we could not possibly know right now. Would hope Bills scouts are looking ahead to the upcoming crops of players. Esp QB Right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, NewDayBills said: I don't think this class is as good as people think, it could turn out that way but Darnold turned the ball over a lot, Rosen's character has been likened to Jay Cutler, Josh Allen only completed 56% of his passes. I think we should wait till RD2. I don't think we should get emotionally invested into the 4th or 5th best guy, we made that mistake with Losman. Eli, Rivers and Big Ben go 1, 2 and 3, then Buffalo burned a 1st on Losman. If it's not there, it's not there. Most of the "got to grab him" posters are going with nothing but emotionalism in banging their fists on the table for a QB. Emotionalism sometimes works out for selecting a mate but seldom works out for anything else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, BuffaloRush said: Not for nothing but Greg Gabriel is a moron who’s time has passed him by. Keep in Mind Greg also thought NathanPeterman was the second coming of Tom Brady. He walked his praise back a bit after the 5 INT For nothing. They're probably the #1 strategy on these boards re: press reports, but as anyone who knows a thing about logic knows, the attack the messenger fallacy - used a bunch of times already in this thread - has absolutely zero logical or argumentative efficacy. None whatsoever, and yet people consistently use it, sadly. 5 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said: The argument to that is... you need to have competent people making those draft decisions. How many QB prospects did Cleveland miss? They had the right idea - they just made the wrong selections. Much like the Sabres over the past few seasons, draft picks are great but you need to hit on those picks. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, BuffaloRush said: Not for nothing but Greg Gabriel is a moron who’s time has passed him by. Keep in Mind Greg also thought NathanPeterman was the second coming of Tom Brady. He walked his praise back a bit after the 5 INT 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: Gonna be a very long 2 months you'll survive. I have faith in you : ) 48 minutes ago, McBean said: I think the plan all along has been Kirk Cousins. i have had an twitch in my right eye since realizing Washington was done with him. You might well be correct. Like i said at some point somewhere. not my first choice via Fa. But i do think FA is what Bills are leaning towards. If not this year? then next. at the latest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 2 hours ago, kdiggz said: If this was the 90's I might listen to what Vic had to say. He's been out of touch since coming back He was right about the "ultimatum"..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Domdab99 said: Unless the Bills can move up and get THEIR GUY (I assume that's Rosen), there is no need to move up. Just today, we saw Trapasso posting his mock that has the Bills moving up for Mason Freakin' Rudolph. I mean, what the hell? Even Mayock doesn't see Rudolph as a first round talent. If the Bills move up just to get whatever QB is left, that will be a huge, huge mistake. You move up ONLY to get THE GUY. Because that guy is going to cost you 2 or 3 first round picks, plus some. You don't waste all of that on "whoever is left over." If the Bills can't get their guy, they should sit tight, and then draft for position...or even trade back with one pick. Their guy might be one guy. Or two. Or three. I suppose more, though I doubt it. Depends on what their scouts think. If they think three guys are gonna stand a really good chance and would fit the system they're implementing in Buffalo, then they should go with that. No particular reason to artificially limit their options. The scouts tell you what to think. You don't tell them how many good players you want to hear about. Most years it would be one guy. This year it could easily be more. Edited February 27, 2018 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: I would absolutely love to be in the Browns position. Absolutely love it. They're sitting pretty and look in terrific shape. And the problem wasn't spending too many picks on one position. It was choosing the wrong guys. Picking Manziel for instance, was just dumb. Now they look set to spend yet another high pick on the same position and become a consistent winner for a decade or two. new GM new game in town. I expect they will be getting their act together soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRush Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: For nothing. They're probably the #1 strategy on these boards re: press reports, but as anyone who knows a thing about logic knows, the attack the messenger fallacy - used a bunch of times already in this thread - has absolutely zero logical or argumentative efficacy. None whatsoever, and yet people consistently use it, sadly. Exactly. Or people want to question someone who is purely speculating without any inside sources. i can respect Vic Carucci. He’s a good reporter, has broken stories with the Bills, and has many relationships with the organization. It’s Greg Gabriel who I am questioning. He’s purely guessing her. He also does not have the credibility or sources that Carucci does. If you follow him on Twitter he legit talked up Peterman all year long while trashing Tyrod. That’s why I’m not a fan. Attack the messenger my ass!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiserplayer Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: This is something to consider. But another thing we could not possibly know right now. Would hope Bills scouts are looking ahead to the upcoming crops of players. Esp QB Right ? Exactly! We need the Qb but five picks in the top hundred is a lot to give up. No one knows how it will turn out. For example last year if we traded with Houston (who with Watson would prob be where our pick is or worse) we would be at 4 and sitting pretty for the Qb we may desire. So I would use our capitol on players and trade for 2019 first rounders for the gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: Most of the "got to grab him" posters are going with nothing but emotionalism in banging their fists on the table for a QB. Emotionalism sometimes works out for selecting a mate but seldom works out for anything else. I might question the emotional pick for the mate, as well Edited February 27, 2018 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 They think one of the guys coming out is can't miss, trade what's needed to get him. If not, don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Cruiserplayer said: Exactly! We need the Qb but five picks in the top hundred is a lot to give up. No one knows how it will turn out. For example last year if we traded with Houston (who with Watson would prob be where our pick is or worse) we would be at 4 and sitting pretty for the Qb we may desire. So I would use our capitol on players and trade for 2019 first rounders for the gamble. It is a nice place to be coming into the draft with those picks rounds one and two can really solidify a team if Beane and Team have done their work. and McDermott and Beane know what they are building for. My assumption? They do. Go Bills ! 6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: They think one of the guys coming out is can't miss, trade what's needed to get him. If not, don't. sounds easy peasy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 10 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: It is a nice place to be coming into the draft with those picks rounds one and two can really solidify a team if Beane and Team have done their work. and McDermott and Beane know what they are building for. My assumption? They do. Go Bills ! sounds easy peasy It is easy peasy. These guys are smart and will do their homework. If there's a guy they think they have to get they have enough picks to offer to move up. Or not. All comes down to how they feel about these guys. We'll find out soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 44 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: It is easy peasy. These guys are smart and will do their homework. If there's a guy they think they have to get they have enough picks to offer to move up. Or not. All comes down to how they feel about these guys. We'll find out soon. you recall we picked EJ Manuel as the QB and then Peterson. Wait and see for me about how smart they are. I do lean towards the positive of course. But Faith needs some affirmation now and again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: you recall we picked EJ Manuel as the QB and then Peterson. Wait and see for me about how smart they are. I do lean towards the positive of course. But Faith needs some affirmation now and again Did the current guys have anything to do with EJ? No. And Peterson has played one game. My guess is they get a guy like Keenum, trade TT and draft a Jackson or White. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Both Vic and Gabriel, like 'em or not, are connected and have sources. However, they have no way to verify what's the real deal and what's BS. Given that Team McBeane have made it clear that they prefer to build this team through the draft, I'm inclined to agree with these two. Unless some type of way too good to pass up kinda deal comes at them, I don't expect a massive jump up. If they have their eye on a guy who happens to slide down past the top 10 or 15, then I think it becomes a bit more likely that they'd move up. If they do make a huge jump up, you know they're gonna get ripped for it somewhere. Maybe by Vic himself. Because we know someone out there will take a look at all the players Beane traded away to acquire their draft capital and convey it in a way that would say, "Bills give up two first rounders, a second and a fourth, and also lost all the players they traded to get those picks and any players they got in return (Gaines, Matthews) didn't re-sign! So, really, Buffalo gave up four picks plus Sammy Watkins, Ron Darby, Jordan Matthews and EJ Gaines. What a terrible, awful, horrible, wretched, no good trade! The Bills should be banned from the league for doing this." *Two seasons later, the player Buffalo traded up for leads them to a championship.* Media: (probably some bums like Schlop and the Bullfrog) "Still the worst draft day trade in the history of the universe- nay, the multiverse! Even in a world of infinite universes and timelines the Bills still sh*t the bed with this trade! Awful! Fire everyone!" Or something like that. Anywho, it's a solid draft for a lot of positions and they have a lot of spots to fill. I can't see them making all those trades last season and restructuring the team in their vision just to give up half of them for one guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsredneck1 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 this tells me that they got a fa in mind. maybe they give a one for foles. maybe they are looking to sign a.j. and max the picks...either i would be happy with...or maybe they feel they can start nate and take a rudolph or white and maybe even a second one later in riley. i think tt and/ or glenn trade put us in a position to move up without giving up first round draft capitol. i would love to get mayfield,we'll have to wait and see where all the free agents fall. 21 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Did the current guys have anything to do with EJ? No. And Peterson has played one game. My guess is they get a guy like Keenum, trade TT and draft a Jackson or White. peterson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRush Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 14 minutes ago, blacklabel said: Both Vic and Gabriel, like 'em or not, are connected and have sources. However, they have no way to verify what's the real deal and what's BS. Given that Team McBeane have made it clear that they prefer to build this team through the draft, I'm inclined to agree with these two. Unless some type of way too good to pass up kinda deal comes at them, I don't expect a massive jump up. If they have their eye on a guy who happens to slide down past the top 10 or 15, then I think it becomes a bit more likely that they'd move up. If they do make a huge jump up, you know they're gonna get ripped for it somewhere. Maybe by Vic himself. Because we know someone out there will take a look at all the players Beane traded away to acquire their draft capital and convey it in a way that would say, "Bills give up two first rounders, a second and a fourth, and also lost all the players they traded to get those picks and any players they got in return (Gaines, Matthews) didn't re-sign! So, really, Buffalo gave up four picks plus Sammy Watkins, Ron Darby, Jordan Matthews and EJ Gaines. What a terrible, awful, horrible, wretched, no good trade! The Bills should be banned from the league for doing this." *Two seasons later, the player Buffalo traded up for leads them to a championship.* Media: (probably some bums like Schlop and the Bullfrog) "Still the worst draft day trade in the history of the universe- nay, the multiverse! Even in a world of infinite universes and timelines the Bills still sh*t the bed with this trade! Awful! Fire everyone!" Or something like that. Anywho, it's a solid draft for a lot of positions and they have a lot of spots to fill. I can't see them making all those trades last season and restructuring the team in their vision just to give up half of them for one guy. Vic is connected - Gabriel is not. Please name 1 story that Greg Gabriel reported first. I’ve been following him for about a year on twitter. All he said this year was how bad Tyrod was and how Peterman could have been better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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