26CornerBlitz Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I'm not the one being stubborn. The best evidence is that chances to win now and the best chances to cash in are not the things that COUSINS cares about. Maybe they are the things YOU would care about, but it's COUSINS who will be making the choice. My reply to was asking you to comment about what factors you think make other places more attractive than Buffalo to COUSINS, and you come back telling was what would be more attractive to you. And yes, I'm an advocate for getting him. I think he's the best choice. But that isn't what I'm writing about - I've said repeatedly that what matters is whether McBeane think he's the best choice, and I don't know what they think. I'm writing about what I think the attractive and unattractive aspects of each team to Cousins. It's based on reported information and my speculation, not based on the fact that I think the Bills should get him. I don't know what you think he cares about, but Cousins himself mentioned Minnesota as a good situation and anyone who looks at them objectively can see they are set up for a run as perennial contenders. Edited February 22, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 17 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: No this is funny! Well played... We can debate the sidebar of how much of a choker Rivers is, but it distracts from the point that, by your own measures, McKown performed as well (shortened season) as Cousins on a worse team. How do the Jets get "a lot better" by squandering so much cap by swapping McKwon for Cousins? how did mccown play as well as cousins?k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: We can debate the sidebar of how much of a choker Rivers is, but it distracts from the point that, by your own measures, McKown performed as well (shortened season) as Cousins on a worse team. How do the Jets get "a lot better" by squandering so much cap by swapping McKwon for Cousins? ??? What is your point about McKown? McKown's QB+ rating this year (as per PFR) was 109 and Cousins' was 108. In the years prior, Cousins' QB+ rating was way better than McKown's. McKown is also 39 years old. Cousins is 29. Come on. 39 is old. He was surprisingly solid this past season, but he's got one decent year left in him max. Edited February 22, 2018 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 30 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I'm not the one being stubborn. The best evidence is that chances to win now and the best chances to cash in are not the things that COUSINS cares about. Maybe they are the things YOU would care about, but it's COUSINS who will be making the choice. My reply to was asking you to comment about what factors you think make other places more attractive than Buffalo to COUSINS, and you come back telling was what would be more attractive to you. And yes, I'm an advocate for getting him. I think he's the best choice. But that isn't what I'm writing about - I've said repeatedly that what matters is whether McBeane think he's the best choice, and I don't know what they think. I'm writing about what I think the attractive and unattractive aspects of each team to Cousins. It's based on reported information and my speculation, not based on the fact that I think the Bills should get him. the only one being stubborn in conversations with 26CornerBlitz is 26CornerBlitz queue the name calling / insults in 3, 2, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 33 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: No this is funny! Well played... We can debate the sidebar of how much of a choker Rivers is, but it distracts from the point that, by your own measures, McKown performed as well (shortened season) as Cousins on a worse team. How do the Jets get "a lot better" by squandering so much cap by swapping McKwon for Cousins? Come on man! You simply cannot equate Cousins and McCown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 24 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: ??? What is your point about McKown? McKown's QB+ rating this year (as per PFR) was 109 and Cousins' was 108. In the years prior, Cousins' QB+ rating was way better than McKown's. McKown is also 39 years old. Cousins is 29. Come on. 39 is old. He was surprisingly solid this past season, but he's got one decent year left in him max. My point was that you, with your stated metrics confirmed that Cousins is on more on par with McKown---a 39 year old McKown at that--than Brees. Cousins would not have made this Jets team a playoff team. 13 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Come on man! You simply cannot equate Cousins and McCown. I wasn't the one using completion%, TD/int ratio, QB rating and YPA to make a point about how much of an upgrade Cousins would be for a team like the Jets. I'm pointing out that they had a QB with those Cousins numbers this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: My point was that you, with your stated metrics confirmed that Cousins is on more on par with McKown---a 39 year old McKown at that--than Brees. Cousins would not have made this Jets team a playoff team. For 1 year; as opposed to the past 3, or their careers as a whole... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 31 minutes ago, aristocrat said: how did mccown play as well as cousins?k. Based on Dave McBride's stats this season. 1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: For 1 year; as opposed to the past 3, or their careers as a whole... Ok, so you want to throw in Cousins's first three seasons too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Ok, so you want to throw in Cousins's first three seasons too? I don't see why not. For Dave: Completion %: Brees 66.9, Cousins 65.4, McCown 60.4 YPA: Brees 7.59, Cousins 7.72, McCown 6.82 TD/INT: Brees 2.18, Cousins 1.82, McCown 1.24 Passer Rating: Brees 97.0, Cousins 93.6, McCown 80.8 ANY/A: Brees 6.99, Cousins 6.72, McCown 5.12 Are you starting to see why your comparison is silly WEO? For WEO: YPG: Brees 284.9, Cousins 262.5, McCown 180.7 TD/G: Brees 2.042, Cousins 1.810, McCown 1.158 Looking at full careers and not the last 3 years, the most comparable QBs to Cousins statistically are Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, and Ben Roethlisberger. Edited February 22, 2018 by BuffaloHokie13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: My point was that you, with your stated metrics confirmed that Cousins is on more on par with McKown---a 39 year old McKown at that--than Brees. Cousins would not have made this Jets team a playoff team. This is both sophistry and straw man-ish. I never claimed that Cousins would or could have made the 2017 Jets squad a playoff team. This entire year for the Jets was cap-clearing salary dump that would put them in position for 2018. They now have excellent young talent on defense, a good draft slot, and a ton of cap space. This is the year to go after a player like Cousins and expect better results. I don't have any idea if they'll get him, but they're in the running. To wit: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22347565/kirk-cousins-2018-nfl-free-agency-sweepstakes-seven-offers-sign-quarterback-picking-best. This is a good piece that makes a logical case for him going to Jax. Edited February 22, 2018 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: I don't see why not. For Dave: Completion %: Brees 66.9, Cousins 65.4, McCown 60.4 YPA: Brees 7.59, Cousins 7.72, McCown 6.82 TD/INT: Brees 2.18, Cousins 1.82, McCown 1.24 Passer Rating: Brees 97.0, Cousins 93.6, McCown 80.8 ANY/A: Brees 6.99, Cousins 6.72, McCown 5.12 Are you starting to see why your comparison is silly WEO? For WEO: YPG: Brees 284.9, Cousins 262.5, McCown 180.7 TD/G: Brees 2.042, Cousins 1.810, McCown 1.158 Looking at full careers and not the last 3 years, the most comparable QBs to Cousins statistically are Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, and Ben Roethlisberger. Actually, you are proving why using those Bolded metrics for comparison is silly---and that is the point I have made repeatedly. It compels you to draw an equivalence between a guy like Cousins, with 3 out of 6 seasons as full time starter, with guys who have been successful for years. No on e would argue the Steelers, chargers, or Falcons would have been as successful with Kirk Cousins as QB. THAT would be a silly argument. Completion %: Brady 63.9, Cousins 65.4 YPA: Brady 7.5, Cousins 7.72 TD/INT: Brady 2.97, Cousins 1.82 Rating: Brady 97.6, Cousins 93.6 So, Cousins is also "comparable" to Brady! I mean, I don't see why not... 1 hour ago, dave mcbride said: This is both sophistry and straw man-ish. I never claimed that Cousins would or could have made the 2017 Jets squad a playoff team. This entire year for the Jets was cap-clearing salary dump that would put them in position for 2018. They now have excellent young talent on defense, a good draft slot, and a ton of cap space. This is the year to go after a player like Cousins and expect better results. I don't have any idea if they'll get him, but they're in the running. To wit: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22347565/kirk-cousins-2018-nfl-free-agency-sweepstakes-seven-offers-sign-quarterback-picking-best. This is a good piece that makes a logical case for him going to Jax. Possibly to Jax. Here's another that suggests Bortles stays put: http://www.espn.com/blog/jacksonville-jaguars/post/_/id/24743/insiders-predict-jaguars-qb-in-2018-where-blake-bortles-will-play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Actually, you are proving why using those Bolded metrics for comparison is silly---and that is the point I have made repeatedly. It compels you to draw an equivalence between a guy like Cousins, with 3 out of 6 seasons as full time starter, with guys who have been successful for years. No on e would argue the Steelers, chargers, or Falcons would have been as successful with Kirk Cousins as QB. THAT would be a silly argument. Completion %: Brady 63.9, Cousins 65.4 YPA: Brady 7.5, Cousins 7.72 TD/INT: Brady 2.97, Cousins 1.82 Rating: Brady 97.6, Cousins 93.6 So, Cousins is also "comparable" to Brady! I mean, I don't see why not... I see you've abandoned the McCown bit since that was hilariously incorrect. And I'd happily argue that the Falcons would have been at least as successful with Cousins as they've been with Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 24 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Actually, you are proving why using those Bolded metrics for comparison is silly---and that is the point I have made repeatedly. It compels you to draw an equivalence between a guy like Cousins, with 3 out of 6 seasons as full time starter, with guys who have been successful for years. No on e would argue the Steelers, chargers, or Falcons would have been as successful with Kirk Cousins as QB. THAT would be a silly argument. Completion %: Brady 63.9, Cousins 65.4 YPA: Brady 7.5, Cousins 7.72 TD/INT: Brady 2.97, Cousins 1.82 Rating: Brady 97.6, Cousins 93.6 So, Cousins is also "comparable" to Brady! I mean, I don't see why not.. the stats don't lie..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 8 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: I see you've abandoned the McCown bit since that was hilariously incorrect. And I'd happily argue that the Falcons would have been at least as successful with Cousins as they've been with Ryan. Your second sentence qualifies as that. My initial comparison (and response to Dave) was for the past season--I.e. both QBs as they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, dave mcbride said: . He is a bona fide good player whose numbers slid a little this year partly because of a much worse receiving corps and a bad running game. Context matters. Does this sound like anyone else we know? Bad WRs. Running game with 1.4 less ypa than the year before ... Surely these are not just excuses. Edited February 22, 2018 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 48 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Possibly to Jax. Here's another that suggests Bortles stays put: http://www.espn.com/blog/jacksonville-jaguars/post/_/id/24743/insiders-predict-jaguars-qb-in-2018-where-blake-bortles-will-play Thanks. I think Cousins would be a big upgrade over Bortles, although I do think that Bortles' mobility is an underrated aspect of his game. The other thing I'll say about Bortles is that while he looked like garbage throwing the ball against Buffalo, he played pretty well against Pitt and well against NE until the game was on the line. But if I'm Tom Coughlin, I take Cousins over Bortles 8 days a week. Coughlin is in it to win it at this point, and I think Cousins is a better vehicle for achieving that goal. There will be a lot of competition for him, though ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, dave mcbride said: Thanks. I think Cousins would be a big upgrade over Bortles, although I do think that Bortles' mobility is an underrated aspect of his game. The other thing I'll say about Bortles is that while he looked like garbage throwing the ball against Buffalo, he played pretty well against Pitt and well against NE until the game was on the line. But if I'm Tom Coughlin, I take Cousins over Bortles 8 days a week. Coughlin is in it to win it at this point, and I think Cousins is a better vehicle for achieving that goal. There will be a lot of competition for him, though ... I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 10 hours ago, aristocrat said: He’d make us a better team. Much better I'm....not....sold. I just can't grasp giving that guy that money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 10 hours ago, dave mcbride said: AZ isn't mentioned either, and they are a prime candidate that checks all of the boxes. https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2018/02/06/carson-palmer-now-officially-retired-cardinals-have-more-cap-space/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 17 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Of course that's what everyone's looking for. Some people will see all of that in Cousins, others won't. It's going to be really fun to watch when free agency starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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