Ranking of Realistic Veteran QB Options

[WideRightRevenge]

5 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Good article, Alf!  McCarron makes Garoppolo look like a grizzled veteran with his 7 starts!

 

 

Well, I hope that team isn't the Bills.  I'd rather keep Peterman and draft a rookie because Peterman would be a whole lot cheaper, and I've been a loud advocate of upgrading from Peterman if possible.  We've seen the worse of Peterman but who knows how bad McCarron could be if he started several games.  The Bills don't need to reprise 2013. 

 

If the best the Bills can do is McCarron, then they'd be better served keeping Taylor for $18+ million a year rather than paying McCarron plus eating nearly $9 million of Taylors dead cap money.

 

Completely agree ... let's see what drops to us (or we trade up) in the draft .. either way ... whomever we get with Nate is better than overpaying for a FA QB (if they were the answer .. how come their original teams didn't lock them up??)  ... I do believe the closer this gets ... and I never thought possible but McBeane may hold Tyrod given the friendly contract and fact it goes away after next year ... unless they can get a 4th or better draft pick via trade.

[SouthNYfan]

6 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Good article, Alf!  McCarron makes Garoppolo look like a grizzled veteran with his 7 starts!

 

 

Well, I hope that team isn't the Bills.  I'd rather keep Peterman and draft a rookie because Peterman would be a whole lot cheaper, and I've been a loud advocate of upgrading from Peterman if possible.  We've seen the worse of Peterman but who knows how bad McCarron could be if he started several games.  The Bills don't need to reprise 2013. 

 

If the best the Bills can do is McCarron, then they'd be better served keeping Taylor for $18+ million a year rather than paying McCarron plus eating nearly $9 million of Taylors dead cap money.

 

Right.

I hate Tyrod.

I cannot wait to be rid of him.

Financially though, our QB position is a financial mess this year

If we keep Tyrod, it's $18 million against the cap allocated to him as our starting QB, which makes me want to puke.

If we cut Tyrod, we need to count his $9mil (I think? It's between 8 and 10 I forget the exact #) of dead cap PLUS whatever we pay his replacement as "allocated" to the starting QB.

 

That means if we sign say, Bradford (just picking a guy, I'm not advocating for him, before anybody gets all huffy) to $15mil this year (which is prob what he will get)... Then he will count as $15mil+$9milDead = $24 mil of cap towards the cap for the starting QB.

[OldTimer1960]

17 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

Looks like there is a lots of momentum from Philly's beat writers and fans regarding a Foles to Bills trade:

 

https://snowballingphiladelphiasports.wordpress.com/2018/02/19/does-foles-to-buffalo-work/

 

Option 3 appears to be very doable.

 

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2018/2/19/17029338/5-realistic-trade-locations-packages-nick-foles-eagles-quarterback-philadelphia-bill-polian-news-nfl (Jets)

 

Trade suggested is close to fair

 

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2018/02/are_the_buffalo_bills_the_perfect_landing_spot_for_nick_fole.html

 

 

 

 

I think even a late 2nd is too steep for Foles.  He had a hot streak at the right time in the playoffs.  If the Eagles will take the 3rd they sent us for Darby straight up for Foles, I’d be on board.  

[26CornerBlitz]

Does he have any trade value? 

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[IgotBILLStopay]

On 2/15/2018 at 10:18 AM, ndirish1978 said:

 

You're REALLY reading those tea leaves in a way that benefits your goals rather than what is in the best interest for others. Denver can clear cap space rather easily and in big chunks by ditching Talib and some role players and be fine to sign Cousins. There is also no reason a FA QB wouldn't want to sign for the Jets if they want to play in a big market. Cousins will likely wind up in Denver, they already have two excellent WRs waiting for him. 

 

 

Umm here is what ESPN says today about Denver's cap space. not saying Cousins is going to definitely sign with the Bills -  just that the chances are not as bad as people seem to think.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/35701/if-kirk-cousins-wants-to-win-some-teams-just-dont-make-sense

 

Quote

Denver Broncos: If the Vikings and Jaguars don’t bid, then it could come down to the Broncos or the Jets. Denver has shown it can build a winner. The Broncos also have a good running game, ranking 12th in yards per game last season. They have a defense that ranked third in yards (but 22nd in points allowed). There’s a base to build around, plus they have the fifth overall pick. The problem for Denver will be creating necessary cap space. The Broncos not only don’t have a lot of room now -- $25 million – they’re also in tough shape for 2019 (currently 29th in available space). Denver could release or trade players to create more room, but one of them would be receiver Emmanuel Sanders. Also, coach Vance Joseph ended his first season with rumors he could get fired. It’s a storied franchise, but it’s another gamble. And both sides will have to wonder the same thing: Given their cap situation, would signing Cousins prevent them from building for long-term success?

 

[Punching Bag]

19 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Williamson | Pro scouting the 2018 QB free agent class - NDT Scouting

Below are the ten best pending free agent Quarterbacks of 2018. This is an usually talented group for the open market:

 

He is saying Peteredman has a chance since for Cousins:

He has come a long way from the early chapters of his career, when he was the most turnover prone passer in the history of the game.

[SouthNYfan]

2 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

 

 

Umm here is what ESPN says today about Denver's cap space. not saying Cousins is going to definitely sign with the Bills -  just that the chances are not as bad as people seem to think.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/35701/if-kirk-cousins-wants-to-win-some-teams-just-dont-make-sense

 

 

 

So you quote an article that opens with a couple of teams that make sense for cousins, then it discussed other teams' pitfalls, using this to bolster an argument that Buffalo is still a cousins destination, yet nowhere in the article does it mention Buffalo as a potential destination??

 

I'm confused.

 

I get the negatives part, but it doesn't even have Buffalo on either the good or bad list.

 

Cousins is a pipe dream.

 

I love the guy and would take him in a heartbeat, but I don't see him in our future.

Btw here are the Vegas odds as of yesterday:

 

New York Jets 2/3

Denver Broncos 7/4

Arizona Cardinals 15/2

Buffalo Bills 12/1

Jacksonville Jaguars 12/1

Miami Dolphins 20/1

New York Giants 20/1

 

 

"Buffalo, like Denver and Arizona, have limited cap space. The team currently has close to $30 million available which makes them hard to take seriously as a suitor for Cousins. The Bills could surprise many around the league and take a run at Cousins, but it doesn't seem like the type of move Brandon Beane would make as Bills general manager."

[reddogblitz]

Just now, SouthNYfan said:

 

So you quote an article that opens with a couple of teams that make sense for cousins, then it discussed other teams' pitfalls, using this to bolster an argument that Buffalo is still a cousins destination, yet nowhere in the article does it mention Buffalo as a potential destination??

 

I'm confused.

 

I get the negatives part, but it doesn't even have Buffalo on either the good or bad list.

 

Cousins is a pipe dream.

 

I love the guy and would take him in a heartbeat, but I don't see him in our future.

Btw here are the Vegas odds as of yesterday:

 

New York Jets 2/3

Denver Broncos 7/4

Arizona Cardinals 15/2

Buffalo Bills 12/1

Jacksonville Jaguars 12/1

Miami Dolphins 20/1

New York Giants 20/1

 

Most people outside of TBD don't think we need a new QB it seems.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, reddogblitz said:

Most people outside of TBD don't think we need a new QB it seems.

 

Most people do, but think the chances of the Bills signing Cousins aren't very good. 

[reddogblitz]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Most people do, but think the chances of the Bills signing Cousins aren't very good. 

 

Perhaps

 

As far as Foles goes, I think he's a fine QB.  I'd take him. He needs an offense that suits his unique skill set and better players to pull it off.  As does our current QB, and most QBs.  If we pick any one of these guys and use the same strategy as last year of we have QB X and he's good at A, B, and C but we want QB Y who is good at D, E, and F, so lets make QB X do D, E, and F, we'll have the same results IMHO.  

 

None of them are that much of a step up and none of them can carry a team on their back like "franchise QBs" supposedly can do.

[SouthNYfan]

6 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Most people outside of TBD don't think we need a new QB it seems.

 

No.

 

5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Most people do, but think the chances of the Bills signing Cousins aren't very good. 

 

Yes.

[gobills1212]

18 hours ago, SoTier said:

Can somebody please explain to me why AJ McCarron is being grouped and discussed as being close in stature with Cousins, Keenum, Bridgewater, and Bradford, all four of whom had at least 1 full season as starter? 

 

McCarron was a fifth round pick who has done nothing to distinguish himself in the NFL.   He has played in all of 7 games in 2015, starting 3 and throwing 79 completions from 119 attempts for 6 TDs and 2 INTs.   In 2016, McCarron played in 1 game an bud made no pass attempts.  In 2017, he played in 3 games and threw 7 passes in 14 attempts with no TDs and INTs.  That McCarron was almost traded to Cleveland doesn't improve his stature since all it does is prove that Cinci didn't think highly enough of him to keep him.

The unknown. Nothing more, nothing less. He has displayed competency, which only in the NFL does that equate to big $$. So many guys have proven to be meh, it stands to reason someone wants to take a chance on someone who has yet to be categorized as such as they still have a chance to be better than meh. Seems pretty common and isn't anything new. Same reason Bills paid for RJ, SEA for Flynn, Texans for OZ and so on... at least there is a glimmer of hope opposed to your Ortons, McCowns, Fitzys etc

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by gobills1212

[reddogblitz]

Just now, gobills1212 said:

The unknown. Nothing more, nothing less. He has displayed competency, which only in the NFL does that equate to big $$. So many guys have proven to be meh, it stands to reason someone wants to take a chance on someone who has yet to be categorized as such as they still have a chance to be better than meh. Seems pretty common and isn't anything new. Same reason Bills paid for RJ, SEA for Flynn, Texans for OZ and so on... at least there is a glimmer of hope opposed to your Ortons, McCowns, Fitzys etc

 

 

I think there's more to it than that.  I think a lot of it relates to his college career and winning 2 national championships at Alabama.  He performed really well on the big stage. In his little time in the NFL he also has looked very good.  I'd take him.  I wanted the Bills to draft him.

 

It has worked.  Cheese traded for Favre who was buried on the bench in Atlanta.  The Texans did well for a few years with Schaub.  Seahawks got to SB with Matt Hasselbeck who was burred on the pine in Green Bay. Broncos got to the Super Bowl on Craig Morton's 3rd or 4th stop in the NFL. 

 

I don't understand why more TBDers don't want him.  He is a classic accurate pocket passer who comes up big in the clutch and in big games., things TBDers want in a QB or at least so i read often.  He's certainly less of a question mark than a draft choice like Allen or Rosen or Jackson or White.  There's more to it than just he hasn't played much IMHO.

[OldTimer1960]

19 hours ago, PolishDave said:

 

Ok.  I get ya.

 

As far as building around the talent you have goes, this staff isn't that kind of staff.   They didn't do it with Tyrod.    They tried to force him to be something he isn't.    

 

Back in the (I think) 3rd preseason game (second one in Buffalo last year) , Dennison made Tyrod be a pocket passer.    They said they were intentionally forcing him to do something they knew he wasn't comfortable with to see how he would handle it.    And he sucked beyond belief.    And that was preseason.    How could they possibly think it would be better during the regular season.   

 

Yet, they allowed teams to "let" him stay in the pocket.  

 

If they didn't tweak the team to Tyrod's strengths last year, I think they would be exponentially less likely to do it this year.    And if they aren't going to do it, then he is destined to be a pretty bad quarterback on this team.    For that reason alone, I think it would be insane for them not to move on completely.    

 

And there are more reasons beyond that.

 

This head coach is a hardcore system guy.   He calls it "the process".  - Which is actually a code name for strong defense and traditionally conservative football.   It is not the type of football that would focus on unleashing individually talented players dominating their position in nontraditional ways.   He wants drone players that you can swap in and out at will that win because they make no mistakes and play better as a team.   He does not want "out of the box" style players who need to do things differently or "their own way" in order to be great.   

 

And Tyrod is the epitome of guys that can dominate if and only if you set him up to do it his way - which is to beat his opponent athletically.

 

I think “dominate” is used very loosely in this context.  I can think of a few times. That Taylor has had a decent game by NFL standards, but none in which he has been anywhere remotely close to dominant.

Edited February 22, 2018 by OldTimer1960

[gobills1212]

34 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I think there's more to it than that.  I think a lot of it relates to his college career and winning 2 national championships at Alabama.  He performed really well on the big stage. In his little time in the NFL he also has looked very good.  I'd take him.  I wanted the Bills to draft him.

 

It has worked.  Cheese traded for Favre who was buried on the bench in Atlanta.  The Texans did well for a few years with Schaub.  Seahawks got to SB with Matt Hasselbeck who was burred on the pine in Green Bay. Broncos got to the Super Bowl on Craig Morton's 3rd or 4th stop in the NFL. 

 

I don't understand why more TBDers don't want him.  He is a classic accurate pocket passer who comes up big in the clutch and in big games., things TBDers want in a QB or at least so i read often.  He's certainly less of a question mark than a draft choice like Allen or Rosen or Jackson or White.  There's more to it than just he hasn't played much IMHO.

Well, Thanks! 

You LITTERALLY just proved my point. 

The end game is a moot point due to lack of a crystal ball - but none the less. He's done just enough, hasn't floundered in his limited opportunities and has things on his resume that people can point to, nudge each other and say 'see?? Eh??' 

Dude could kill it, but aside from Favre the rest of your list isn't exactly awe inspiring and were essentially servicable. Full circle to do you want servicable, or potentially great?

Pointing to Favre is (imo) as silly as when people point to Brady and say a late rd pick could crush it. Sure, there are anomalies but WAAYYY more often than not these teams are left w buyers remorse.  

 

2 yrs ago, I wlda loved taking a stab at AJ.

Now, I just kinda think if there was something there he would have been snatched away or at least given a shot. Sure, he's now a Buffalo folks hero but ol Red Rocket isn't exactly top 3rd and he still didn't supplant him

[reddogblitz]

8 hours ago, gobills1212 said:

Well, Thanks! 

You LITTERALLY just proved my point. 

The end game is a moot point due to lack of a crystal ball - but none the less. He's done just enough, hasn't floundered in his limited opportunities and has things on his resume that people can point to, nudge each other and say 'see?? Eh??' 

Dude could kill it, but aside from Favre the rest of your list isn't exactly awe inspiring and were essentially servicable. Full circle to do you want servicable, or potentially great?

Pointing to Favre is (imo) as silly as when people point to Brady and say a late rd pick could crush it. Sure, there are anomalies but WAAYYY more often than not these teams are left w buyers remorse.  

 

2 yrs ago, I wlda loved taking a stab at AJ.

Now, I just kinda think if there was something there he would have been snatched away or at least given a shot. Sure, he's now a Buffalo folks hero but ol Red Rocket isn't exactly top 3rd and he still didn't supplant him

 

You're welcome.

 

AJ would have been snatched away if the Clowns had been able to bet their paper work in on time.

 

I was responding to your comment that getting another teams backup doesn't work.  I listed a few and you threw Favre out because he was too good. 

 

And yes I would take a "servicable QB" if he could get us to the SB as 3 of the four I listed did.

 

I also don't  think that you either have to throw caution to the wind and trade up to take a chance on the next Peyton Manning, or accept mediocrity. It is a false choice IMHO.

 

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by reddogblitz

[WideRightRevenge]

11 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I think there's more to it than that.  I think a lot of it relates to his college career and winning 2 national championships at Alabama.  He performed really well on the big stage. In his little time in the NFL he also has looked very good.  I'd take him.  I wanted the Bills to draft him.

 

It has worked.  Cheese traded for Favre who was buried on the bench in Atlanta.  The Texans did well for a few years with Schaub.  Seahawks got to SB with Matt Hasselbeck who was burred on the pine in Green Bay. Broncos got to the Super Bowl on Craig Morton's 3rd or 4th stop in the NFL. 

 

I don't understand why more TBDers don't want him.  He is a classic accurate pocket passer who comes up big in the clutch and in big games., things TBDers want in a QB or at least so i read often.  He's certainly less of a question mark than a draft choice like Allen or Rosen or Jackson or White.  There's more to it than just he hasn't played much IMHO.

 

And we pick up Catherine Webb and lose no draft picks

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Bring Fitz back for 2 years as a place holder or back up and maybe be up to take Darnold or Rosen.

[gobills1212]

5 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

You're welcome.

 

AJ would have been snatched away if the Clowns had been able to bet their paper work in on time.

 

I was responding to your comment that getting another teams backup doesn't work.  I listed a few and you threw Favre out because he was too good. 

 

And yes I would take a "servicable QB" if he could get us to the SB as 3 of the four I listed did.

 

I also don't  think that you either have to throw caution to the wind and trade up to take a chance on the next Peyton Manning, or accept mediocrity. It is a false choice IMHO.

 

 

It has nothing to do w being too good, and it bears mentioning Glanville didn't want the kid so he only had a year on the pine before supplementing the Magik Man. It's just the exception to the rule, as is Brady. It' s the modern equivlant of the Bills acquiring Kieser and having him turn into Favre. Same for the few people who want a team to keep taking 6th rd qbs in hopes of finding the next Brady. It was lightning in a bottle and it happened once. It may not happen for another 9,999 times. Should we keep trying to hit that 1 in 10,000? 

 

I didn't discount what you said, I just think it's more inline with the status quo with past regimes. Swing for the fences,  or continue with the Cassels or Kolbs of the world.  Ya want to have a shot a at a return to glory? Acquire an elite qb. Since no one is giving their away find the one you like the most and take him. If not, unless everything else lines up for a perfect season we are right where we have been. Unless you think 6-10, -9-7 seasons are fun..

I honestly don't mean to come across as high and mighty or pompous, but why does this even need to be explained? Maybe Mcarron is decent - but his upside prob isn't elite. Stop the nonsense and do everything possible to try to obtain elite! Luckily, from the little we have heard it sounds like McBeane is trying and spinning the wheels is plan B.

Edited February 22, 2018 by gobills1212

[IgotBILLStopay]

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2018/2/22/17039724/eagles-cut-trade-save-salary-cap-space-players-casaulty-philadelphia-nick-foles-torrey-smith-curry

 

Another article on Philly's cap situation and why trading Foles makes a lott

Quote

Also: another thing to keep in mind here is that the Eagles will be tight on cap space in years to come, not just this offseason. With that in mind, draft picks are more valuable than ever to this team. They need to find cheap, young talent.

So yes, I would trade Foles for the right offer. Howie Roseman will, too, in my opinion. I think a second-round pick plus something else is the move that will materialize.

Quote

That’s why trading Foles could be key. That extra $5.2 million saved is a lot for this team. That would put the Eagles at over $10 million to work with, which seems more reasonable.

a sense