TheFunPolice Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Just now, PatsFanNH said: The debate I THINK here is wether the ball hit the ground or not. Some say it did others not. It's a difference of opinion really. As for Brady winning I say that Gronk had a wee bit of a deciding factor in the win with having more than half of Brady's yards going to him. No doubt! Gronk is unstoppable when healthy. That's why I always say the only way you beat NE is to score 30+ points. The best defense against them is scoring a LOT of TDs I've seen countless games where NE has 10 points at the start of the 4th quarter and still end up with 30+ They can score at will. To beat NE you need a minimum of 4 TDS on a normal week. Sure, you can hold them down once in a while if they don't have Gronk, but with him they will get close to 30 every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris66 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 6 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: The idea that this play was not a catch is completely insane. He catches the ball and stretches out across the goal line. That IS control. The fact that people sit around debating these plays like lawyers arguing over a divorce settlement and the refs looks for any tiny little thing to overturn big plays is running this sport. That and the fact that the entire season is pointless because the same team wins at the end every year. All the exciting teams, great young players! MVP candidates! Then the same old 40 year old QB wins anyway. It's like watching Cena win at WrestleMania. Just feels pre ordained. No different in the 80s.49ers, giants, redskins were fighting for the trophy every year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: The debate I THINK here is wether the ball hit the ground or not. Some say it did others not. It's a difference of opinion really. As for Brady winning I say that Gronk had a wee bit of a deciding factor in the win with having more than half of Brady's yards going to him. Gronk was a big factor in the game; the Steelers didn't have an answer for him. What if Gronk was still suspended...do the Pats still win this game? I personally doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Almost every team that beats them uses the same formula: run the ball a LOT, score TDs in the Red Zone, and burn a lot of clock in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Just now, Happy Gilmore said: Gronk was a big factor in the game; the Steelers didn't have an answer for him. What if Gronk was still suspended...do the Pats still win this game? I personally doubt it. No they lose and lose badly! Gronk was a beast on Sunday. Probably the best player on the field for either team IMO. Man is a downright beast when his head is on right. ( but as we saw even in that game Brady had keep him reigned in and focused at the end.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Just now, Chris66 said: No different in the 80s.49ers, giants, redskins were fighting for the trophy every year Yes, the same 3 teams. Now it's one super team and a bunch of mediocre teams, which means the super team always wins unless it's some epic upset. At least back then there were monumental showdowns and sometimes one team won, sometimes the other. Who in the AFC is even up to par with NE? Pittsburgh? Please. If they make it to the AFC Title game they will lose to NE 45-27 or something like that. Pittsburgh cannot beat them, no matter how good the Steelers team is. After that, the AFC playoff picture is full of Tennessee, Baltimore, even KC type teams who NE could rest their starters and beat by double digits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: Almost every team that beats them uses the same formula: run the ball a LOT, score TDs in the Red Zone, and burn a lot of clock in the process. That's what the Steelers tried to do. They had the ball a long long time but failed get points on a crucial drive that took them 7 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Just now, PatsFanNH said: That's what the Steelers tried to do. They had the ball a long long time but failed get points on a crucial drive that took them 7 minutes. Yup... they missed the key part: cashing in those long drives with 7. Kicking a FG against NE, unless it's the end of a half or the end of the game, is like quitting and admitting defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris66 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said: Yes, the same 3 teams. Now it's one super team and a bunch of mediocre teams, which means the super team always wins unless it's some epic upset. At least back then there were monumental showdowns and sometimes one team won, sometimes the other. Who in the AFC is even up to par with NE? Pittsburgh? Please. If they make it to the AFC Title game they will lose to NE 45-27 or something like that. Pittsburgh cannot beat them, no matter how good the Steelers team is. After that, the AFC playoff picture is full of Tennessee, Baltimore, even KC type teams who NE could rest their starters and beat by double digits. Coaching in this league is horrible. Thats why. The only coach that understands situational football is Bellichick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: Yup... they missed the key part: cashing in those long drives with 7. Kicking a FG against NE, unless it's the end of a half or the end of the game, is like quitting and admitting defeat. Lol hey you have to admit for or against he Pats that game Sunday was a thriller to the end. The NFL needs MORE games like that and less like what we did get Sunday.. blow outs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: Lol hey you have to admit for or against he Pats that game Sunday was a thriller to the end. The NFL needs MORE games like that and less like what we did get Sunday.. blow outs! It was exciting, but of course the refs had to play a major role. THAT is what is hurting the league most IMO. GREAT game. AMAZING finish. And the refs take it all away and make it about some dumb rule nobody can understand. So now all the talk is about analyzing the play from 35 different angles to see if his fingers are under the ball. He caught the ball and extended it over the goal line. It's that simple. The NFL rules about catches are completely arbitrary and impossible for anyone to understand, to the point where commentators mention it every game now "who knows what a catch is anymore?" is said almost every game by the people employed by the networks to call them. That is a problem now. It never was before the past few years. 7 minutes ago, Chris66 said: Coaching in this league is horrible. Thats why. The only coach that understands situational football is Bellichick Agreed. Overall, coaches are awful at clock management and situational decision making. Let's hope McVay is some kind of genius and the Rams can end the dynasty that started against them. Edited December 19, 2017 by TheFunPolice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 New to this thread. Are people really arguing that that was a catch? By the rule (which is the right rule, in my opinion - otherwise we'd have a spate of stupid fumble calls on plays in which the receiver possessed the ball for one second), it was as clear as day that he didn't possess it all the way to the ground. If you're looking for someone to blame, focus on Todd Haley, who called a trick fake spike play with only one receiever running a route. If the others had run routes, Harmon would have had to cover one of them and wouldn't have been in perfect position to get the deflection. Did Haley think he could trick a Belichick team with a fake spike near the end zone in the final seconds? If he did, he's pretty foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 12 hours ago, NoSaint said: Ignoring your made up standard. What do you assert is between the grass and the ball? I say nothing and do believe we see that. But even in entertaining your opinion, if we can eliminate all the possible body parts - then you can prove there’s nothing between without seeing the actual contact How is it a made up standard? Almost Every time there is a replay on tv the always talk about how the refs have to have conclusive evidence in the replay in order to overturn a call made on the field. You can't say without any possible doubts that the ball is loose and on the ground from any angle or photo available right now. That's the problem with the call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Just now, dave mcbride said: New to this thread. Are people really arguing that that was a catch? By the rule (which is the right rule, in my opinion - otherwise we'd have a spate of stupid fumble calls on plays in which the receiver possessed the ball for one second), it was as clear as day that he didn't possess it all the way to the ground. If you're looking for someone to blame, focus on Todd Haley, who called a trick fake spike play with only one receiever running a route. If the others had run routes, Harmon would have had to cover one of them and wouldn't have been in perfect position to get the deflection. Did Haley think he could trick a Belichick team with a fake spike near the end zone in the final seconds? If he did, he's pretty foolish. Yup. When crunch time comes against NE the other team always melts down and/or cracks. It could be you stop them and make them punt... then fumble on the return. OR a dumb play like the fake spike, or not running Lynch, or not running in the SB. It takes a tough, veteran team with a great coach to beat them when it really matters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: Yup. When crunch time comes against NE the other team always melts down and/or cracks. It could be you stop them and make them punt... then fumble on the return. OR a dumb play like the fake spike, or not running Lynch, or not running in the SB. It takes a tough, veteran team with a great coach to beat them when it really matters. My favorite: Marlon McCree making what should have been the game ending INT in the 2006 SD-NE playoff game and instead of going down and taking a knee, actually tries to return it. Troy Brown of course strips it, NE gets it back, Brady hits on a bomb, and NE wins a game in which they were thoroughly dominated. That INT was a fourth down play too! http://www.footballinsiders.com/four-plays-that-changed-nfl-history/ Edited December 19, 2017 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 12 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: New to this thread. Are people really arguing that that was a catch? By the rule (which is the right rule, in my opinion - otherwise we'd have a spate of stupid fumble calls on plays in which the receiver possessed the ball for one second), it was as clear as day that he didn't possess it all the way to the ground. If you're looking for someone to blame, focus on Todd Haley, who called a trick fake spike play with only one receiever running a route. If the others had run routes, Harmon would have had to cover one of them and wouldn't have been in perfect position to get the deflection. Did Haley think he could trick a Belichick team with a fake spike near the end zone in the final seconds? If he did, he's pretty foolish. The fake spike wasn't the problem. The play was poorly executed from the get go and was slow to develop. Also the playcall was problemmatic. Why throw into the teeth of the defence? A fade would have been a wiser choice. After Butler crushed Seattle in the SB you'd think they would know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: My favorite: Marlon McCree making what should have been the game ending INT in the 2006 SD-NE playoff game and instead of going down and taking a knee, actually tries to return it. Troy Brown of course strips it, NE gets it back, Brady hits on a bomb, and NE wins a game in which they were thoroughly dominated. That INT was a fourth down play too! http://www.footballinsiders.com/four-plays-that-changed-nfl-history/ There are so many examples, and because of these dumb mistakes we have to hear about how they are the "greatest team of all time..." Sure. Let's see them up against Montanta's 49ers with today's rules. Back then you could actually hit the QB and hold WRs. Imagine Jerry Rice in his prime with the illegal contact rule. IF you think Brady gets preferential treatment, imagine Montana in today's league. The favoritism would be a wash. Jerry Rice was totally unstoppable in an era where guys held WRs committed what would today be PI on almost every play, and took headshots on every pass over the middle. Imagine with today's rules trying to even slow Rice down! Patriots are the greatest of a very mediocre era. Belichick was just a decade younger than the other HOF iconic coaches, so by the time he took over they were all gone and his opposition was mostly guys like Dick Jauron and Jim Caldwell. Edited December 19, 2017 by TheFunPolice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris66 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said: There are so many examples, and because of these dumb mistakes we have to hear about how they are the "greatest team of all time..." Sure. Let's see them up against Montanta's 49ers with today's rules. Back then you could actually hit the QB and hold WRs. Imagine Jerry Rice with the illegal contact rule. 49ers wouldnt be able to field that team. They would be 30 million over the cap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 15 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: Yup. When crunch time comes against NE the other team always melts down and/or cracks. It could be you stop them and make them punt... then fumble on the return. OR a dumb play like the fake spike, or not running Lynch, or not running in the SB. It takes a tough, veteran team with a great coach to beat them when it really matters. See Tom Coughlin. I love that man as a coach ever since he coached for BC. Man is an amazing coach and the ONLY one I have not seen crap his pants when facing the Pats.. EVER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Chris66 said: 49ers wouldnt be able to field that team. They would be 30 million over the cap Well, I guess that throws a wrench into NE being the "greatest team of all time" then. That's the point. Those 49ers teams were loaded with HOF players, not just the QB and the coach and maybe a TE. That's why you can't compare eras. That's also why it's a joke to call NE the greatest team of all time. Edited December 19, 2017 by TheFunPolice 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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