stinky finger Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 On 12/10/2017 at 7:10 PM, joesixpack said: Bitching nonetheless, which is my point. Ppl here have no vision, no patience, and largely no intellect. Those who hate McDermott likely do because SAMMY. They drew their line, and closed their minds. Winner winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, PolishDave said: Some of you guys really, really, really miss Dick Jauron apparently. I liked Jauron. We was the all-time conservative coach. Jauron was really smart. Really smart. He understood that if you have subpar talent, the only way to compete was to keep the score low. He had subpar talent, so he kept the score low. His defenses didn't allow big plays - if you scored on him, you scored by going on long, time consuming drives. His offenses ran the clock, and he punted a lot. The result was (1) boring football and (2) a lot of games that were close in the fourth quarter. Three years of teams that competed more than they deserved. I've often wondered what he would have done if he had any talent on his teams. His conservative approach would have been deadly with a lot of talent, but maybe his approach would have changed with talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 8 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I liked Jauron. We was the all-time conservative coach. Jauron was really smart. Really smart. He understood that if you have subpar talent, the only way to compete was to keep the score low. He had subpar talent, so he kept the score low. His defenses didn't allow big plays - if you scored on him, you scored by going on long, time consuming drives. His offenses ran the clock, and he punted a lot. The result was (1) boring football and (2) a lot of games that were close in the fourth quarter. Three years of teams that competed more than they deserved. I've often wondered what he would have done if he had any talent on his teams. His conservative approach would have been deadly with a lot of talent, but maybe his approach would have changed with talent. I knew it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Domdab99 said: And if they tie with the /colts they have to beat the Patriots. You sure you know what you're talking about, Shaw? This post really shows the difference between fan thinking and coach thinking. As fans we've already decided the Patriots is a loss. So we are thinking a tie aganst the Colts is the same as a loss, and yes if we knew for a fact the Pats was a loss that would be logical. But McDermott isn't thinking that way. He's probably thinking we need to win out regardless, and he certainly believes he can. So in his mind if he needs to win out anyways he'll take the tie now. McDermott has one goal, get the best possible record. He wasn't going to take a loss on a 4th and 1 with a less than 50/50 chance. 5 hours ago, Shaw66 said: If they BEAT the Colts they STILL have to beat the Patriots. If they lose to the Pats they're 9-7 and lose the tie-breakers. Before yesterday's game the practical reality was the Bills had to go 4-0 or 3-0-1. Beating (or tying) the Pats was always on the agenda. I agree Shaw. People are driving themselves nuts thinking about hypothetical tiebreaker scenarios. Personally I think we need to finish better than 9-7. A loss yesterday was the only unacceptable result, and McDermott was likely thinking it meant our season was over. All this is besides the point that his decision went exactly as planned. Pin them deep, get good field position with a new set of downs, get the Indy defense worn down enough for Shady to break one. There's nothing to complain about. We probably would have missed the 4th and 1 anyways. Edited December 12, 2017 by HappyDays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 5 hours ago, billsfan11 said: But you have to understand the scenario, and realize it would almost be impossible to win the last 3 games, especially going AT New England and knocking off Brady and Belichick. That straight up will not happen. The crazy thing is fans think punting on 4th and 1 is a fireable offense regardless of the result, but if the head coach had already resigned himself to losing one of our remaining games that would be considered smart coaching. The thinking here is so backwards. You don't plan your game strategy around future losses, that's just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 8 minutes ago, HappyDays said: This post really shows the difference between fan thinking and coach thinking. As fans we've already decided the Patriots is a loss. So we are thinking a tie aganst the Colts is the same as a loss, and yes if we knew for a fact the Pats was a loss that would be logical. But McDermott isn't thinking that way. He's probably thinking we need to win out regardless, and he certainly believes he can. So in his mind if he needs to win out anyways he'll take the tie now. McDermott has one goal, get the best possible record. He wasn't going to take a loss on a 4th and 1 with a less than 50/50 chance. If he was content playing for a tie yesterday because he believes we will win out... well, count me out. more than likely he’s just a product of decades of poor decision making across the nfl in that very scenario. Coaches are so programmed not to lose that they often forget to go win the game. 2 minutes ago, HappyDays said: The crazy thing is fans think punting on 4th and 1 is a fireable offense regardless of the result, but if the head coach had already resigned himself to losing one of our remaining games that would be considered smart coaching. The thinking here is so backwards. You don't plan your game strategy around future losses, that's just stupid. Nor do you bet that you are more likely to win out than convert a 4 and 1.... and might I throw in that missing it doesn’t mean you lose this one either. also punting comes with risk of bad snap, missed handle, shanking, or putting in the endzone and suddenly you’ve pushed them back 20 yards instead of taking a shot at keeping the ball (an AWFUL trade) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, HappyDays said: The crazy thing is fans think punting on 4th and 1 is a fireable offense regardless of the result, but if the head coach had already resigned himself to losing one of our remaining games that would be considered smart coaching. The thinking here is so backwards. You don't plan your game strategy around future losses, that's just stupid. Out of curiosity, why shouldn't he factor in that game at New England? That absolutely should have factored into his decision. You cannot tie 3-9 teams and expect to get into the playoffs. He should have went all in for that win yesterday and a tie shouldn't have even been an option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, billsfan11 said: Out of curiosity, why shouldn't he factor in that game at New England? That absolutely should have factored into his decision. You cannot tie 3-9 teams and expect to get into the playoffs. He should have went all in for that win yesterday and a tie shouldn't have even been an option Walking in yesterday, he should’ve had it a must win game and it should’ve factored into every decision accordingly. You can’t coach that game not to lose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: I would prefer my coach want to maintain the pressure and go for the jugular, but the other side is acceptable also. In this situation there are multiple outcomes and multiple ways to play it. Defense was winning for the day - so I can accept the decision. Yeah either decision is defensible. In the moment I wanted us to go for it but considering all the variables McDermott' s decision makes a lot of sense to me. I wouldn't have hated if he went for it. But it definitely wasn't a gutless decision, I am sure he knew he would be questioned hard for it. Easy decision would have been to go for it and no one is unhappy regardless of the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, NoSaint said: Walking in yesterday, he should’ve had it a must win game and it should’ve factored into every decision accordingly. You can’t coach that game not to lose. Exactly. 1 minute ago, NoSaint said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, NoSaint said: Walking in yesterday, he should’ve had it a must win game and it should’ve factored into every decision accordingly. You can’t coach that game not to lose. This just isn't true. The only result that killed the season was a loss. You really want a coach who assumes a loss to New England?? Guys like that don't make it in the NFL, they post on message boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 12 minutes ago, NoSaint said: If he was content playing for a tie yesterday because he believes we will win out... well, count me out. He went into the game believing he had to win out. Next Bills loss probably ends their season. He knew he couldn't afford a loss. He could live with a tie, but not with a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, HappyDays said: This just isn't true. The only result that killed the season was a loss. You really want a coach who assumes a loss to New England?? Guys like that don't make it in the NFL, they post on message boards. I want a coach who isn't content with a tie to a bottom feeder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: This just isn't true. The only result that killed the season was a loss. You really want a coach who assumes a loss to New England?? Guys like that don't make it in the NFL, they post on message boards. I’m not assuming a loss to New England but I’m also not assuming we win 3 in a row for the first time all year AND get all the help we need. And again, this is relatively low risk (even if you miss the cost is low), high reward (huge swing in odds of scoring if you make it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, HappyDays said: This just isn't true. The only result that killed the season was a loss. You really want a coach who assumes a loss to New England?? Guys like that don't make it in the NFL, they post on message boards. Every once in a while you find one of these threads where you feel like you've been transported to another planet. This is one of them, Happy. I should have warned you. The funny thing is that most of the posters here think you and I are the ones from outer space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 minute ago, billsfan11 said: I want a coach who isn't content with a tie to a bottom feeder... Instead you want a coach content to risk a loss because they'd rather let other teams control our destiny in hypothetical tiebreaker scenarios? I want the coach who knows 9-6-1 is much more likely to get us in than 9-7. We can't lose another game, that was true before the Colts game started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, billsfan11 said: I want a coach who isn't content with a tie to a bottom feeder... At the end of the season you make the playoffs if you have enough wins compared to losses. No one asks who your wins were against or who you losses were to. You make the playoffs on your record. I'm sorry if a tie would have hurt your feelings; I want a coach who's trying to preserve the Bills chances to make the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: At the end of the season you make the playoffs if you have enough wins compared to losses. No one asks who your wins were against or who you losses were to. You make the playoffs on your record. I'm sorry if a tie would have hurt your feelings; I want a coach who's trying to preserve the Bills chances to make the playoffs. Thats why I want the coach trying to end yesterday with an 11% chance, and not content with 3% cause at least we didn’t get knocked out (or whatever those numbers were) And ill keep echoing that missing doesn’t mean you lose. If you are betting on the defense to force a 3 and out you sure as hell should be betting they won’t give up 40 yards for a shot at a risky kick Edited December 12, 2017 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Instead you want a coach content to risk a loss because they'd rather let other teams control our destiny in hypothetical tiebreaker scenarios? I want the coach who knows 9-6-1 is much more likely to get us in than 9-7. We can't lose another game, that was true before the Colts game started. No, yesterday's game is an absolute must win. That should have been their only mindset. You know if the Bills tied, they would have a 3 percent chance of getting into the playoffs right? That's about a 1 and 33 chance. You are content with those odds? Might as well be 0 percent . A win put their odds I believe at over 30 percent? If he's content with 3 percent odds then that is honestly just sad. They needed to win that game yesterday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Instead you want a coach content to risk a loss because they'd rather let other teams control our destiny in hypothetical tiebreaker scenarios? I want the coach who knows 9-6-1 is much more likely to get us in than 9-7. We can't lose another game, that was true before the Colts game started. Yes of course because they should have proceeded with high confidence that they'd win the final three games after knotting with the lowly Colts. Especially in week 16 at NE. Sure, makes perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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