Our GM/Head Coach Combination

[BillsFan130]

13 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

So Beane and McD did nothing in Carolina. Opinion noted. Lol

In terms of drafting, McD did nothing.

 

Beane I'm sure contributed to drafting, but I believe Ron Rivera and Gettleman had a much higher say. 

 

Wellit's pretty much a fact Gettleman had a higher say because he's the general manager.

 

And just because I said he's an assistant, it doesn't mean he did nothing. Im saying the difference between being the assistant and "the guy" is a huge

Edited November 15, 2017 by billsfan11

[SoTier]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Those guys were brought in while Beane and McDermott were their and they helped coach them into that success though...

Just because they were there doesn't mean that either one of them had any responsibility for the personnel decisions Carolina made that brought all those stars to the Panthers but don't let reality infringe upon your euphoria.  Beane was primarily an administrator who was promoted to Assistant GM only in 2015.  McDermott seems to have more actual player evaluation experience as he was Carolina's DC for 5 years, 2011-2016,  but depending upon the team dynamics, he might or might not have input to the players Carolina picked. 

[Norwood for Wall of Fame]

Makes me think of the good old days of Buddy and Chan.

 

Did that ever really happen?

[buffalostu2]

The comparison made was to SF when the QB was replaced.   Your facts are all screwed up.  

 

Throughout the early season, Kaepernick was used as a wildcat quarterback. In Week 10 against the St. Louis Rams, Kaepernick replaced starter Alex Smith, who had suffered a concussion in the first half.

 

So your example is what?

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by buffalostu2

[The Now Moment]

38 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

By all accounts the players liked Dareus a lot. So McDermott didn’t think that he was buying in. They gave up 298 yards on the ground last week!! Watch this clip and tell me that chemistry is more important than talent.

 

 

You are misunderstanding. We both agree that Dareus was well liked by the players.  He didn't like the scheme.  That poses a problem for a new head coach, if he is talking to his teammates about the scheme or coaches in a bad way, he as a leader could potentially side with him and go against the coach.  Talent does need to be at the position yes but if there isn't chemistry, then someone will not play well.  Dareus clearly didn't play that well leading up to his departure.  1 sack and 8 tackles isn't the kind of production someone with his talent should be producing.  Even Kyle Williams said he needed a fresh start.  

 

That's disregarding the cap you gain and the fact that Dareus is one more problem away from being suspended almost a full season.  That is not what you want at a leadership position in your locker room.  You don't want guys who are selfish and have off the field problems being looked up to by your young players.  

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said:

You are misunderstanding. We both agree that Dareus was well liked by the players.  He didn't like the scheme.  That poses a problem for a new head coach, if he is talking to his teammates about the scheme or coaches in a bad way, he as a leader could potentially side with him and go against the coach.  Talent does need to be at the position yes but if there isn't chemistry, then someone will not play well.  Dareus clearly didn't play that well leading up to his departure.  1 sack and 8 tackles isn't the kind of production someone with his talent should be producing.  Even Kyle Williams said he needed a fresh start.  

 

That's disregarding the cap you gain and the fact that Dareus is one more problem away from being suspended almost a full season.  That is not what you want at a leadership position in your locker room.  You don't want guys who are selfish and have off the field problems being looked up to by your young players.  

Dareus isn’t and wasn’t a leader in the locker room. He wasn’t influencing anybody. In fact Kyle tried to take him under his wing. The only thing that we was influencing was scheme and double teams. McDermott underestimated his impact and alienated him instead of embracing him. The cap savings are under $3M next year. It isn’t a lot of money being saved. It was a miscalculation that they are paying dearly for.

[The Now Moment]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

Dareus isn’t and wasn’t a leader in the locker room. He wasn’t influencing anybody. In fact Kyle tried to take him under his wing. The only thing that we was influencing was scheme and double teams. McDermott underestimated his impact and alienated him instead of embracing him. The cap savings are under $3M next year. It isn’t a lot of money being saved. It was a miscalculation that they are paying dearly for.

Really? You honestly think he wasn't a leader on the team?  He's done speeches over the last few years for the team and led them out of the tunnel a few times.  If he truly isn't a leader, do you think they want to pay a guy who isn't helping his teammates or being a leader on the team almost 20 million dollars a year?  It may not be a ton of savings now but in two years he's off the books.  The move absolutely was all about him and his off the field issues, potential long suspension and malcontent with the scheme/coaching.  That's not something a new coach wants on his team.  

27 minutes ago, SoTier said:

Just because they were there doesn't mean that either one of them had any responsibility for the personnel decisions Carolina made that brought all those stars to the Panthers but don't let reality infringe upon your euphoria.  Beane was primarily an administrator who was promoted to Assistant GM only in 2015.  McDermott seems to have more actual player evaluation experience as he was Carolina's DC for 5 years, 2011-2016,  but depending upon the team dynamics, he might or might not have input to the players Carolina picked. 

My thinking is the defensive coach of your team has some influence on developing defensive players.  Just my thought.  Maybe we should trust them, they have been in the playoffs and seen a super bowl and not too long ago they were the worst team in the league, two picks above where we took Dareus at 3.  Their quick turnaround should make us feel better about them, not worse.  

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Really? You honestly think he wasn't a leader on the team?  He's done speeches over the last few years for the team and led them out of the tunnel a few times.  If he truly isn't a leader, do you think they want to pay a guy who isn't helping his teammates or being a leader on the team almost 20 million dollars a year?  It may not be a ton of savings now but in two years he's off the books.  The move absolutely was all about him and his off the field issues, potential long suspension and malcontent with the scheme/coaching.  That's not something a new coach wants on his team.  

He absolutely wasn’t considered a leader of that team. I agree that it was about getting him off long term but the cost vs. benefit had to be weighed. You don’t save $20M by getting rid of him. It’s less than $3M next year plus any rollover created. It wasn’t worth the minimal savings to effectively end you run defense. He should have remained on the roster through 2018 when there were real cap savings. It was a big mistake and they are seeing the results now.

[JAMIEBUF12]

I love the move.I like it because it gives Beane and Mcdermott a reasonable time to evaulate the team.If petermen is horrible we draft a qb.If he is someone you can work with you draft a o-line and d-line

[The Now Moment]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

He absolutely wasn’t considered a leader of that team. I agree that it was about getting him off long term but the cost vs. benefit had to be weighed. You don’t save $20M by getting rid of him. It’s less than $3M next year plus any rollover created. It wasn’t worth the minimal savings to effectively end you run defense. He should have remained on the roster through 2018 when there were real cap savings. It was a big mistake and they are seeing the results now.

I respectfully disagree.  I've played on many sports teams in high school and the only reason we were so good was because we had chemistry and talent.  You need both.  He didn't want to make the adjustment to the scheme...you have to get rid of him.  Whether you think he was a leader or not I also respectfully disagree.  Higher talents in the league usually are looked up to by teammates.  This year, he obviously lost that but he has been a leader on this team in the past.  

 

Bottom line is, if I were the Head Coach and my players were questioning how I do things and not playing up to their standards...I wouldn't have a problem showing them the door.  You don't need that negative attitude bringing other guys down around him.  

[C.Biscuit97]

It’s amazing how much SM and his puppet are getting a pass.  A lot of posters would have moved on from TT in the offseason and knew this offense was a fit for him.  Then, they trade away his best wr.  Then, wr they surprise us with a 5-2 start, they trade away our best DT and we have been completely bullied on the ground the last 2 games.

 

if this blows up, this could be one of the worst moves in Bills history.  I’m not a big TT fan but this is a giant risk to make this move now.  And I’m not going to blindly support these moves.  They could have cost us an easy playoff berth in a crap AFC by trading away blue chip players and starting a rookie qb.

[SoTier]

 

14 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

My thinking is the defensive coach of your team has some influence on developing defensive players.  Just my thought.  Maybe we should trust them, they have been in the playoffs and seen a super bowl and not too long ago they were the worst team in the league, two picks above where we took Dareus at 3.  Their quick turnaround should make us feel better about them, not worse.  

 

I'm done "trusting" the GMs and HCs OBD has been hiring for seventeen years since I've come to the conclusion that my dog could have managed to get the Bills to the playoffs at least once in all that time ... and his football knowledge is rather limited, his being a dog and having other priorities and all.  Do you realize exactly how hard it is for a supposedly professional football team to manage to wallow in losing records for nearly two decades in the salary cap era?  That takes real skill.  It takes dedication to finding and nurturing on-field football incompetence.  It especially takes real disdain for the fans who support that team to continually manipulate them to keep them filling the stadium -- and adding to the Bills coffers -- when the people running the team have no interest in winning football games.

 

2 minutes ago, JAMIEBUF12 said:

I love the move.I like it because it gives Beane and Mcdermott a reasonable time to evaulate the team.If petermen is horrible we draft a qb.If he is someone you can work with you draft a o-line and d-line

 

How long does it take for them to evaluate the team?  The OL sucks.  The run game sucks.  Except for Clay and may Benjamin, the receivers suck.  The front seven sucks, sucks, sucks ... and then sucks some more.  The safeties are decent, though.

[The Now Moment]

17 minutes ago, SoTier said:

I'm done "trusting" the GMs and HCs OBD has been hiring for seventeen years since I've come to the conclusion that my dog could have managed to get the Bills to the playoffs at least once in all that time ... and his football knowledge is rather limited, his being a dog and having other priorities and all.  Do you realize exactly how hard it is for a supposedly professional football team to manage to wallow in losing records for nearly two decades in the salary cap era?  That takes real skill.  It takes dedication to finding and nurturing on-field football incompetence.  It especially takes real disdain for the fans who support that team to continually manipulate them to keep them filling the stadium -- and adding to the Bills coffers -- when the people running the team have no interest in winning football games.

Do you honestly think this regime has no interest in winning games?  If they wanted to put fans in the stands they could've just kept all the players they had.  Instead, they actually want to win and are holding people accountable including the QB.  To me, they are finally making the right moves, unlike past GMs and HCs that we've had.  We as fans look back at the continuing lack of success yet don't look at the fact that this GM and HC inherited the majority of the players on the field.  As a business person, you really are okay with taking over a highly unsuccessful work place and not making any changes?  They have come in and said the lack of success isn't good enough and are going to start it their way.  You said it yourself, it's hard to lose as long as we have.  These guys are stopping what we've done in the past and taken a new direction.  It's refreshing and exciting for a fan such as myself.  

[Kirby Jackson]

37 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

I respectfully disagree.  I've played on many sports teams in high school and the only reason we were so good was because we had chemistry and talent.  You need both.  He didn't want to make the adjustment to the scheme...you have to get rid of him.  Whether you think he was a leader or not I also respectfully disagree.  Higher talents in the league usually are looked up to by teammates.  This year, he obviously lost that but he has been a leader on this team in the past.  

 

Bottom line is, if I were the Head Coach and my players were questioning how I do things and not playing up to their standards...I wouldn't have a problem showing them the door.  You don't need that negative attitude bringing other guys down around him.  

Then we are in disagreement. It wasn’t worth sabotaging your run defense to save $3M in cap space. The run defense is now atrocious and not surprisingly Jacksonsville’s run d has taken a step foreward. 

 

Dareus has never been viewed as a leader by anyone. You are mistaking talent for leadership. Sammy was never considered a leader either but he was a big time talent. 

 

Every winning team that I’ve ever been on or seen at any level has had stars. Find me a team that won a championship without elite level players and I’ll find you 50 that won with stars. Bucky Brooks tweeted the other day that championship teams have at least 8 “Blue players” (pro bowl caliber) on their roster. The Bills have MAYBE half of that and have traded away 2 and benched a 3rd. I’d say Hyde, maybe White, Shady, maybe someone on the OL. Chemistry means nothing without blue-chip talents.

44 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It’s amazing how much SM and his puppet are getting a pass.  A lot of posters would have moved on from TT in the offseason and knew this offense was a fit for him.  Then, they trade away his best wr.  Then, wr they surprise us with a 5-2 start, they trade away our best DT and we have been completely bullied on the ground the last 2 games.

 

if this blows up, this could be one of the worst moves in Bills history.  I’m not a big TT fan but this is a giant risk to make this move now.  And I’m not going to blindly support these moves.  They could have cost us an easy playoff berth in a crap AFC by trading away blue chip players and starting a rookie qb.

That’s kind of where I’m at with it all. It’s funny because I called my dad, my fiancé and a good friend of mine over lunch and all 3 said the same thing totally unsolicited. They said that it feels like they are trying to deflect from the real issues. If you make a move like this you can say “we tried to shake it up” but that’s ignoring the fact that you gave up 298 yards on the ground last week after dealing away an elite run stuffer. 

[The Now Moment]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Then we are in disagreement. It wasn’t worth sabotaging your run defense to save $3M in cap space. The run defense is now atrocious and not surprisingly Jacksonsville’s run d has taken a step foreward. 

 

Dareus has never been viewed as a leader by anyone. You are mistaking talent for leadership. Sammy was never considered a leader either but he was a big time talent. 

 

Every winning team that I’ve ever been on or seen at any level has had stars. Find me a team that won a championship without elite level players and I’ll find you 50 that won with stars. Bucky Brooks tweeted the other day that championship teams have at least 8 “Blue players” (pro bowl caliber) on their roster. The Bills have MAYBE half of that and have traded away 2 and benched a 3rd. I’d say Hyde, maybe White, Shady, maybe someone on the OL. Chemistry means nothing without blue-chip talents.

You're right they need talent but it's not about this year.  We will play as hard as we can with what we have and have chemistry and the right personality type players to create a culture until more talent that fits those traits is brought in.  They told us that it is about building a culture...McDermott has said this so many times.  You can't play with guys that get in the way of chemistry and the culture that they are trying to build.  

 

I'll agree to disagree.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Buffalo30

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

You're right they need talent but it's not about this year.  We will play as hard as we can with what we have and have chemistry and the right personality type players to create a culture until more talent that fits those traits is brought in.  They told us that it is about building a culture...McDermott has said this so many times.  You can't play with guys that get in the way with chemistry and the culture that they are trying to build.  

 

I'll agree to disagree.

That’s the only place we really disagree. I wouldn’t have mailed in this year, in a terrible AFC, when you are still in a playoff spot. I wouldn’t have made any of the moves that they have made this summer/fall with the exception of the Benjamin deal (after realizing the guys that they added to the receiver room sucked). I wouldn’t have cut J Will, I wouldn’t be giving carries to Tolbert, I wouldn’t have traded Dareus, etc... I get that they are trying to do things their way but it doesn’t mean what they are doing is right. So far the results are mixed at best. If they don’t draft well this team isn’t moving forward. 

[SoTier]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Do you honestly think this regime has no interest in winning games?  If they wanted to put fans in the stands they could've just kept all the players they had.  Instead, they actually want to win and are holding people accountable including the QB.  To me, they are finally making the right moves, unlike past GMs and HCs that we've had.  We as fans look back at the continuing lack of success yet don't look at the fact that this GM and HC inherited the majority of the players on the field.  As a business person, you really are okay with taking over a highly unsuccessful work place and not making any changes?  They have come in and said the lack of success isn't good enough and are going to start it their way.  You said it yourself, it's hard to lose as long as we have.  These guys are stopping what we've done in the past and taken a new direction.  It's refreshing and exciting for a fan such as myself.  

 

One winning season in the last 12 years absolutely says there's no interest in winning on the part of OBD.  You're all gung-ho for punishing the peons for the sins of the rulers, dude, but all the peons and even the overseers have all been changed out repeatedly, and nothing has changed.  That says you need some drastic measure ... like holding the people responsible for hiring the overseers and peons accountable for failing to put more than a single winning team on the field in the last dozen years.  Until that happens, the Bills are going to continue to suffer losing seasons ... but they will probably make lots of $$$.

 

[The Now Moment]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s the only place we really disagree. I wouldn’t have mailed in this year, in a terrible AFC, when you are still in a playoff spot. I wouldn’t have made any of the moves that they have made this summer/fall with the exception of the Benjamin deal (after realizing the guys that they added to the receiver room sucked). I wouldn’t have cut J Will, I wouldn’t be giving carries to Tolbert, I wouldn’t have traded Dareus, etc... I get that they are trying to do things their way but it doesn’t mean what they are doing is right. So far the results are mixed at best. If they don’t draft well this team isn’t moving forward. 

Those players didn't fit the schemes for the coaching staff though.  That's a huge reason.  Those moves done so early will quicken the rebuild.  This year is basically a throwaway year because most of the team is inherited players that don't fit the schemes.  These coaches aren't gonna coach other schemes because they specialize in certain schemes just like all coaches do.  The team has just played well and the fans don't know how to handle that with the moves that have been made.  They are benefitting the team long term and now by creating that upstanding character culture this season, not waiting until the year is over.  We got rid of some talent but if they aren't gonna be here after the season, you can only hurt yourself with them here.  The coach doesn't want to be fighting the opinions of his players, that's a distraction that's not needed in a workplace.

[SoTier]

14 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

You're right they need talent but it's not about this year.  We will play as hard as we can with what we have and have chemistry and the right personality type players to create a culture until more talent that fits those traits is brought in.  They told us that it is about building a culture...McDermott has said this so many times.  You can't play with guys that get in the way of chemistry and the culture that they are trying to build.  

 

I'll agree to disagree.

 

It's NEVER about this year with the Bills.  They're ALWAYS about "the future" ... a "future" that hasn't gotten here yet in 12 years and isn't likely to get here any time soon.

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, Buffalo30 said:

Those players didn't fit the schemes for the coaching staff though.  That's a huge reason.  Those moves done so early will quicken the rebuild.  This year is basically a throwaway year because most of the team is inherited players that don't fit the schemes.  These coaches aren't gonna coach other schemes because they specialize in certain schemes just like all coaches do.  The team has just played well and the fans don't know how to handle that with the moves that have been made.  They are benefitting the team long term and now by creating that upstanding character culture this season, not waiting until the year is over.  We got rid of some talent but if they aren't gonna be here after the season, you can only hurt yourself with them here.  The coach doesn't want to be fighting the opinions of his players, that's a distraction that's not needed in a workplace.

Then the scheme is the problem!! That’s Rex Ryan all over again!! You don’t take something that works and switch to something that doesn’t because that’s what you like to run!! For God’s sake Nick Saban is running tempo!! You adapt to your talent and the game not adapt the talent to your system. Your scheme should never, ever, ever, ever, ever come above your talent. That is a giant recipe for failure and we just watched it unfold with Rex.