Our GM/Head Coach Combination

[The Now Moment]

1 minute ago, SoTier said:

 

One winning season in the last 12 years absolutely says there's no interest in winning on the part of OBD.  You're all gung-ho for punishing the peons for the sins of the rulers, dude, but all the peons and even the overseers have all been changed out repeatedly, and nothing has changed.  That says you need some drastic measure ... like holding the people responsible for hiring the overseers and peons accountable for failing to put more than a single winning team on the field in the last dozen years.  Until that happens, the Bills are going to continue to suffer losing seasons ... but they will probably make lots of $$$.

 

...they just fired almost everyone because.  Including the scouting department and a lot of the front office.  Did I miss something?  If you think these new guys will want to put a dud on the field, I think you're wrong.  Both Beane and McDermott are first timers at their positions, do you think they don't want to be successful?  If they don't, then they will probably never be a GM or HC again.  I'll agree to disagree man because I don't see your viewpoint at all

[Chris66]

McDermott reminds me of McDaniels stint in Denver.

[Spiderweb]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It was 26 last year.

Not me, I am happy when the right decisions are made. It was bold to trade Dareus for a 6th. It’s been a disaster so far. It wasn’t conservative but it wasn’t right either.

Yes, trading Darius was a disaster. From a team tough to run against to a team that can be run on at will. Only difference? No Darius on run downs...   Long term effect to be determined, but immediate results have been horrendous for the Bills and us.

[The Now Moment]

A

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Then the scheme is the problem!! That’s Rex Ryan all over again!! You don’t take something that works and switch to something that doesn’t because that’s what you like to run!! For God’s sake Nick Saban is running tempo!! You adapt to your talent and the game not adapt the talent to your system. Your scheme should never, ever, ever, ever, ever come above your talent. That is a giant recipe for failure and we just watched it unfold with Rex. 

 

All coaches specialize in certain schemes that they've coached in before.  Almost all coaches bring those schemes with them.  Look at the history of coaching, that's the case everywhere.  That's how the coaches will be most effective.  How are they supposed to coach a scheme they are unfamiliar with?  Once they get the right players in their scheme, then the long term success is there.  If you morph to a roster, you may get some instant success but the long term success usually doesn't follow.

[ctk232]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

By all accounts the players liked Dareus a lot. So McDermott didn’t think that he was buying in. They gave up 298 yards on the ground last week!! Watch this clip and tell me that chemistry is more important than talent.

 

 

Chemistry is better than talent, but you still need talent no question. Why not both? Get a run stopping DT that also fits the chemistry

[Chris66]

Just now, Buffalo30 said:

A

All coaches specialize in certain schemes that they've coached in before.  Almost all coaches bring those schemes with them.  Look at the history of coaching, that's the case everywhere.  That's how the coaches will be most effective.  How are they supposed to coach a scheme they are unfamiliar with?  Once they get the right players in their scheme, then the long term success is there.  If you morph to a roster, you may get some instant success but the long term success usually doesn't follow.

And thats why the majority of coaches in this league suck. They get stuck in their own system and on one side of the ball. The talent issue in this league isnt players its coaches.

[The Now Moment]

6 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

It's NEVER about this year with the Bills.  They're ALWAYS about "the future" ... a "future" that hasn't gotten here yet in 12 years and isn't likely to get here any time soon.

You're right because they don't let a regime see anything through.  Granted, I didn't like the last few regimes because the GM and HC didn't seem to have a plan and weren't brought in together.  This to me looks like the right direction

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

A

All coaches specialize in certain schemes that they've coached in before.  Almost all coaches bring those schemes with them.  Look at the history of coaching, that's the case everywhere.  That's how the coaches will be most effective.  How are they supposed to coach a scheme they are unfamiliar with?  Once they get the right players in their scheme, then the long term success is there.  If you morph to a roster, you may get some instant success but the long term success usually doesn't follow.

That’s a recipe for disaster. Andy Reid is running Alex Smith’s college offense. Nick Saban is running tempo. Bill Belichick throws the ball as much as anyone. Those weren’t the pillars that made those guys successful coaches. They adapted to their talent. In some cases, like Saban, they are doing the exact opposite of their principles. By the time you acquire the talent to run your system you’ve failed enough to be out of the job. See Ryan, Rex

4 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

Chemistry is better than talent, but you still need talent no question. Why not both? Get a run stopping DT that also fits the chemistry

It’s way harder to find talent than it is to find character. You can throw a rock and find A Tim Anderson. You need to search to find a guy that consistently eats a double team.

[thebandit27]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s a recipe for disaster. Andy Reid is running Alex Smith’s college offense. Nick Saban is running tempo. Bill Belichick throws the ball as much as anyone. Those weren’t the pillars that made those guys successful coaches. They adapted to their talent. In some cases, like Saban, they are doing the exact opposite of their principles. By the time you acquire the talent to run your system you’ve failed enough to be out of the job. See Ryan, Rex

It’s way harder to find talent than it is to find character. You can throw a rock and find A Tim Anderson. You need to search to find a guy that consistently eats a double team.

 

this is more or less where I fall as well.

 

So far, the front office has done an admirable job of finding players that fit what McDermott wants to do on defense, but the rigidity of their preferred archetype has cost them guys like Dareus and Watkins, who certainly could've been productive here.

 

I don't think the trade-off has made them a better team this year; the question is whether or not it'll make them better in the long-term.

[SoTier]

22 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

...they just fired almost everyone because.  Including the scouting department and a lot of the front office.  Did I miss something?  If you think these new guys will want to put a dud on the field, I think you're wrong.  Both Beane and McDermott are first timers at their positions, do you think they don't want to be successful?  If they don't, then they will probably never be a GM or HC again.  I'll agree to disagree man because I don't see your viewpoint at all

 

You gotta go higher up the food chain!   Y'know ... the guys who hired McDermott and Beane!    Beane and McDermott ask, "How high, sir?" when the suits at OBD say "Jump".  My personal guess is that the decision to bench Taylor for Peterman didn't come from McDermott ... or even Beane unless he was just the messenger boy.  Get a clue ... the Bills upper organization, which really didn't change when the ownership changed except to shed some of Ralph Wilson's family and friends in cushy positions, is dysfunctional, and as long as the Pegulas don't disturb them, the same old same old will continue ... and I don't expect the Pegulas to disturb them.

 

19 minutes ago, Chris66 said:

McDermott reminds me of McDaniels stint in Denver.

 

    Like McDaniels, McDermott is so used to working with all those talented, intense players that Carolina had collected, that he has no idea how to accommodate those who are maybe a little less dedicated to become football machines or who simply don't have the talent or who don't have the personality that he likes. 

 

He also shares the same rigidity that was a hallmark of Dick Jauron: my way or the highway.

[Kirby Jackson]

16 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

this is more or less where I fall as well.

 

So far, the front office has done an admirable job of finding players that fit what McDermott wants to do on defense, but the rigidity of their preferred archetype has cost them guys like Dareus and Watkins, who certainly could've been productive here.

 

I don't think the trade-off has made them a better team this year; the question is whether or not it'll make them better in the long-term.

That’s where I come back to the ability to draft. They have made a big push to acquire draft capital. If they hit and have a big draft like the Saints just did it will offset some the holes that they have. There is a lot of pressure to draft well now because they lack talent in a lot of places. 

[thebandit27]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s where I come back to the ability to draft. They have made a big push to acquire draft capital. If they hit and have a big draft like the Saints just did it will offset some the holes that they have. There is a lot of pressure to draft well now because they lack talent in a lot of places. 

 

That's true...I do think, however, that another offseason of quietly-solid FA signings will help significantly.  They were able to add some important pieces like Hyde and Poyer for relative peanuts; a similar approach to positions like DT and WR (suppose, for example, guys like Bennie Logan and Paul Richardson respectively) could plug some key holes and give them some breathing room in terms of hitting on those high picks.

[familykwi]

My concern is the step in and blow it up philosophy of management.  Often, when a person takes over as manager, they assess, get a feel for the culture, make decision about what to keep and what to change and decide the best way to bring their philosophy into the culture that exists.

 

Now the NFL may have less patience in allowing management to build a program, but blowing it all up so soon may prolong the building process because you leave yourself little to no foundation to build upon.

 

Making the playoffs this year will be a relief, but unless this turns into some magical finale of a season, I'm reserving my judgement on McBeane/McDermott until they've had a couple of drafts.  If this team makes the playoffs, it will not be solely due to one McDermott draft with the Benjamin, Matthews and Gaines acquisitions.  Most of this roster was assembled by Whaley, so success this year is still a product of his labor.  If we do not show incremental improvement over the next 3 years, then this hire is not much different than the last 17 years. 

 

The barrage of news out of OBD is interesting and entertaining for sure.  I'm not yet ready to blindly trust the process until it yields sustainable success though.

Edited November 15, 2017 by familykwi
completing an incomplete sentence.

[Kirby Jackson]

9 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

That's true...I do think, however, that another offseason of quietly-solid FA signings will help significantly.  They were able to add some important pieces like Hyde and Poyer for relative peanuts; a similar approach to positions like DT and WR (suppose, for example, guys like Bennie Logan and Paul Richardson respectively) could plug some key holes and give them some breathing room in terms of hitting on those high picks.

Those would both be good signings (and cost effective). I think that they try to get Star Lotulelei. He won’t come cheap but will fill a need. They have proven to love the guys that they had in Carolina. A few good signings will certainly ease the pressure.

[thebandit27]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Those would both be good signings (and cost effective). I think that they try to get Star Lotulelei. He won’t come cheap but will fill a need. They have proven to love the guys that they had in Carolina. A few good signings will certainly ease the pressure.

 

They may try to get Star--I think they'll try to go as cost-effective as possible given how many needs they have.

 

I mean, they'll need new starters at QB, RG or RT (assuming they keep Glenn and Richie and dependent upon where Dawkins ends up), DT (2 assuming Kyle leaves or retires), MLB, and CB (assuming Gaines leaves), and they'll need at least the following depth players: backup RB, speed WR, swing OT, EDGE rusher, DT, and OLB.

 

That's all assuming that they're able to re-sign Leonard Johnson and Ramon Humber.

[Happy]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They have proven to love the guys that they had in Carolina.

This is noticeable since they've had their hands in the Carolina cookie jar a lot.  Hopefully they'll look at FAs from other teams as well, not just their comfort zone.

This is where Whaley excelled, he found talent in a number of places and not just Pittsburgh, for example.

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

 

They may try to get Star--I think they'll try to go as cost-effective as possible given how many needs they have.

 

I mean, they'll need new starters at QB, RG or RT (assuming they keep Glenn and Richie and dependent upon where Dawkins ends up), DT (2 assuming Kyle leaves or retires), MLB, and CB (assuming Gaines leaves), and they'll need at least the following depth players: backup RB, speed WR, swing OT, EDGE rusher, DT, and OLB.

 

That's all assuming that they're able to re-sign Leonard Johnson and Ramon Humber.

That’s scary!! There are some internal options though like Groy that can fill a spot. I think that Gaines comes back (he was apparently a big reason that they pulled the trigger on the Sammy deal). If they’ve proven anything it’s that they like their guys. That still leaves a few holes for sure. They can potentially find 4 starters in the draft (maybe a little Utopian) but there are still spots out there. This team has a lot of needs.

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s scary!! There are some internal options though like Groy that can fill a spot. I think that Gaines comes back (he was apparently a big reason that they pulled the trigger on the Sammy deal). If they’ve proven anything it’s that they like their guys. That still leaves a few holes for sure. They can potentially find 4 starters in the draft (maybe a little Utopian) but there are still spots out there. This team has a lot of needs.

 

I think the best-case scenario is that they fill 2 starting spots with key FAs--I already used the B. Logan example at DT, and I'd like to see the other starting CB spot either by re-signing Gaines or bringing in a potential cap casualty like DRC or David Amerson.  If they also bring in a speedy WR like Richardson that shores up 3 key holes.

 

I definitely think that they'll end up with 3 starters from their first 5 picks, if only by default.  For me, the deciding factor in how fast they move forward is going to be how they address the other 6-7 areas of need.  I think you can hope to effectively fill 2-3 of those with lower-tier FAs and/or later draft picks, but those other key spots are going to suffer.

[Happy]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

By the time you acquire the talent to run your system you’ve failed enough to be out of the job. See Ryan, Rex

It appears that this is the path that Rick Dennison's offense is on.  If Nate Peterman doesn't pan out, then what; hope we get Dennison's type of QB in the draft?

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, Happy Gilmore said:

It appears that this is the path that Rick Dennison's offense is on.  If Nate Peterman doesn't pan out, then what; hope we get Dennison's type of QB in the draft?

Or cut your losses and find another OC