Figster Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 IIRC, the Bills' offense had the fewest turnovers in the league last year (by far), which obviously helps a defense's PPG considerably. When you look at where the O could be with even a slight improvement in the passing game it becomes easier to understand why McD wants to see where Dennison/Taylor will take him with better Defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) Right, and the O made the most of it ranking 10th in the league in PPG. The problem is giving the opposition the ball deep in its own territory and watching them march the entire length of the football field. Can you see how that works against us? with all due respect It goes both ways. Don't you think the defense would also benefit from the offense sustaining more drives and cutting down on the 3 and outs? You are overstating the notion that the defense was constantly letting teams march down the length of the field. They were 18th in yards per drive. The defense needs to be better. I don't pretend otherwise. Edited May 31, 2017 by Bangarang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 It goes both ways. Don't you think the defense would also benefit from the offense sustaining more drives and cutting down on the 3 and outs? You are overstating the notion that the defense was constantly letting teams march down the length of the field. They were 18th in yards per drive. The defense needs to be better. I don't pretend otherwise. I understand Bang's thoughts....i dont disagree....we do need to convert more 3rd downs It just when you have biult a defense that doesnt let opponents breath like we had just 2 years ago....it is hard not to place a lion share of the blame when fall so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 It goes both ways. Don't you think the defense would also benefit from the offense sustaining more drives and cutting down on the 3 and outs? You are overstating the notion that the defense was constantly letting teams march down the length of the field. They were 18th in yards per drive. The defense needs to be better. I don't pretend otherwise. I don't think I am, 16th ranking, 18th ranking, is that supposed to help your argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) I don't think I am, 16th ranking, 18th ranking, is that supposed to help your argument? They were average in terms of points given up and yards allowed per drive. Tell me how it doesn't help. We had the 8th most drives resulting in a 3 and out last year. That can hurt a defense and it matters. The offense has its warts just like the defense. I wouldn't just assume the offense will be great again and it's all on the defense to be better. Edited May 31, 2017 by Bangarang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) They were average in terms of points given up and yards allowed per drive. Tell me how it doesn't help. We had the 8th most drives resulting in a 3 and out last year. That can hurt a defense and it matters. The offense has its warts just like the defense. I wouldn't just assume the offense will be great again and it's all on the defense to be better. Does average D or below get you playoff results? (18th would be considered below league average) I agree, the O does have much room for improvement. ( Patriots had more 3 and outs then Buffalo ) Edited May 31, 2017 by Figster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills757 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 They were average in terms of points given up and yards allowed per drive. Tell me how it doesn't help. We had the 8th most drives resulting in a 3 and out last year. That can hurt a defense and it matters. The offense has its warts just like the defense. I wouldn't just assume the offense will be great again and it's all on the defense to be better. No question the offense has its warts but Rex's formula for winning included a bully of a defense and an offense that was able to score points and limit turnovers. If Rex's D's in '15 and '16 been more like the Bills defense of 2014, there's no doubt they would've won 10 or 11 games each of those two years. So, from the perspective of how Rex planned to be successful, the defense underachieved far more than the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 They were average in terms of points given up and yards allowed per drive. Tell me how it doesn't help. We had the 8th most drives resulting in a 3 and out last year. That can hurt a defense and it matters. The offense has its warts just like the defense. I wouldn't just assume the offense will be great again and it's all on the defense to be better. Per Drive Stat Offense (Rank) Defense (Rank) Yards 31.91 (14) 32.52 (18) Points 2.18 (9) 2.11 (21) Turnovers 0.069 (3) 0.097 (24) Field Position 28.67 (11) 29.11 (23) Plays 5.93 (16) 5.95 (19) Time of Possession 2:43 (18) 2:49 (27) Touchdowns 0.264 (6) 0.229 (20) Punts 0.431 (22) 0.394 (20) 3&Outs 0.218 (20) 0.246 (10) Average Lead -0.94 (15) 1.43 (15) So the defense was top 10 in forcing 3&Outs per drive and the Offense was top 10 in Points, Turnovers, and Touchdowns per drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Does average D or below get you playoff results? (18th would be considered below league average) I agree, the O does have much room for improvement. ( Patriots had more 3 and outs then Buffalo ) I don't have a crystal ball so I couldn't tell you. Are we just blindly assuming the offense does not regress and maintains an elite rushing attack and puts up top 10 PPG while also improving in the passing game? I'd say your chances are probably much better. Oh no. Not this awful argument again. What argument is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 IIRC, the Bills' offense had the fewest turnovers in the league last year (by far), which obviously helps a defense's PPG considerably. Really excellent point. Wouldn't Buffalo have set some kind of record for fewest turnovers if not for the Manuel/Jones debacle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 IIRC, the Bills' offense had the fewest turnovers in the league last year (by far), which obviously helps a defense's PPG considerably. Not turning the ball over definitely is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 It goes both ways. Don't you think the defense would also benefit from the offense sustaining more drives and cutting down on the 3 and outs? You are overstating the notion that the defense was constantly letting teams march down the length of the field. They were 18th in yards per drive. The defense needs to be better. I don't pretend otherwise. Aside from the last Jets game and the 1st 2 games after which Buffalo decided to get rid of Roman, who they were reportedly considering cutting ties with after 2015, the Bills were middle of the league in TOP and 3 & out %. In fact, Buffalo lost 6 games in that 13 game stretch and in 4 of those 6 losses Buffalo won TOP and in 3 of those 6 games Buffalo had a better 3rd down %, including 1 individual 200 yard rusher and giving up an 18 point lead and allowed 29 points to be scored in a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) Does average D or below get you playoff results? (18th would be considered below league average) I agree, the O does have much room for improvement. ( Patriots had more 3 and outs then Buffalo ) why would you use a stat from a superbowl winning team vs a 7-9 team? I mean, does it really matter if the bills had a better 3 and out % then the patsies last season? Really excellent point. Wouldn't Buffalo have set some kind of record for fewest turnovers if not for the Manuel/Jones debacle? a 7-9 team setting any type of record really doesn't make them any better than, a 7-9 team... Not turning the ball over definitely is a good thing. it is, but would be much better if said team were to end up with a successful season. which unfortunately they did not. maybe this season they'll be on the winning side of things where turnover ratio (fewest turnovers) and 3 and out % will really matter...? Edited May 31, 2017 by DaBillsFanSince1973 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) why would you use a stat from a superbowl winning team vs a 7-9 team? I mean, does it really matter if the bills had a better 3 and out % then the patsies last season? a 7-9 team setting any type of record really doesn't make them any better than, a 7-9 team... it is, but would be much better if said team were to end up with a successful season. which unfortunately they did not. maybe this season they'll be on the winning side of things where turnover ratio (fewest turnovers) and 3 and out % will really matter...? 3 and out stat /ranking sounds worse then what it is IMO Its worse then getting one 1st down and out after the second set of downs, but clearly not a back breaking stat thats hard to overcome with good special teams in my humble opinion. The Pats/Brady won a championship with higher 3 and out numbers so to me it helps prove the insignificants. with all due respect Edited May 31, 2017 by Figster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I don't know. I didn't read what he wrote because he's a douche and I don't want to click the link and contribute to his living. Wow! Transplant exposed bigtime on this one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Aside from the last Jets game and the 1st 2 games after which Buffalo decided to get rid of Roman, who they were reportedly considering cutting ties with after 2015, the Bills were middle of the league in TOP and 3 & out %. In fact, Buffalo lost 6 games in that 13 game stretch and in 4 of those 6 losses Buffalo won TOP and in 3 of those 6 games Buffalo had a better 3rd down %, including 1 individual 200 yard rusher and giving up an 18 point lead and allowed 29 points to be scored in a game. This a good example why stats get less useful the more detailed they get. Tonyou run a lot your TOP is skewed upward becausemthw clock stops less.fequently than if you pass a lot. Passing teams usually have lousy TOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 This a good example why stats get less useful the more detailed they get. Tonyou run a lot your TOP is skewed upward becausemthw clock stops less.fequently than if you pass a lot. Passing teams usually have lousy TOP. ....EXACTLY.......glorify all of the 2016 stats you want, but 7-9 and sitting home in January booking tee times for the 17th consecutive year has to account for something....anything......it ain't working... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) why would you use a stat from a superbowl winning team vs a 7-9 team? I mean, does it really matter if the bills had a better 3 and out % then the patsies last season? Okay, but the Patriots also had the #1 scoring Defense in the NFL and were #8 in yards... also quite relevant to this discussion Wow! Transplant exposed bigtime on this one... Why? I didn't remotely respond to what Rodak even said because I didn't read it, so if I'm "exposed" because I chose to not read or respond to an issue brought up by a writer I generally don't like, then I guess you're right, but maybe this would be a more congenial place if more posters took that approach Edited May 31, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/5/31/15718772/tyrod-taylor-buffalo-bills-passing-stats-first-half-and-second-half-2016-season-sammy-watkins?utm_campaign=buffalorumblings&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter "The Sammy Watkins Effect was likely at play during the first half of 2016. Watkins was clearly not 100% in Buffalo’s first two games then he missed the rest of games 3 - 8. Unsurprisingly, his absence damaged Tyrod’s efficiency." Wow!Transplant exposed bigtime on this one... You haven't been posting much. Must be at the facility throwing those bombs to Watkins I bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Aside from the last Jets game and the 1st 2 games after which Buffalo decided to get rid of Roman, who they were reportedly considering cutting ties with after 2015, the Bills were middle of the league in TOP and 3 & out %. Let's not go crazy and cherry pick or eliminate games from a sample size so it fits your point better. And you're someone who constantly criticizes all the rumors and speculation you hear in the media and now you're citing them? You're talking out of both sides of your mouth my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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