transplantbillsfan Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Rank the QB stats by importance. This is a fun exercise so I'll take a stab at it. Can we just preface this with expectations that these "most important stats" are for starting QBs, obviously? Not some WR who throws 7 passes on the season: #1- TD/Turnover ratio #2- YPT (Yards Per Touch) #3- completion % #4- total yards Something like that I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Thanks Kirby's response was well-couched though--he said that the passing game is leaving plays on the field and needs to improve. Far cry from what old school is saying I was just busting your chops by googling man. This is a fun exercise so I'll take a stab at it. Can we just preface this with expectations that these "most important stats" are for starting QBs, obviously? Not some WR who throws 7 passes on the season: #1- TD/Turnover ratio #2- YPT (Yards Per Touch) #3- completion % #4- total yards Something like that I'd say. It's funny because I don't think there's a right answer. They are all "within reason" categories for me. Perfect example. I don't care if you complete 65% of your passes if your YPA is 5.5. That's just not gonna get it done. I'd rather have a guy complete 59% of his passes with a 7.0 YPA. Similarly, having a good TD:INT ratio is important, but if you throw 15TD's and 2 picks, that's just not a lot of production. I'd much rather have a guy throw 25 TD's and 6 picks. Even though that's a worse ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 (edited) that brings into question what is actually considered a "bad game" There were very few "bad games' Balt, Mia 1, NE 2, Cincy, Oak, Pitt There are 6. 6 is more than a few. I hope that number doesn't rise without the creampuffs on next years schedule. Edited March 19, 2017 by Ryan L Billz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 (edited) It's funny because I don't think there's a right answer. They are all "within reason" categories for me. Perfect example. I don't care if you complete 65% of your passes if your YPA is 5.5. That's just not gonna get it done. I'd rather have a guy complete 59% of his passes with a 7.0 YPA. Similarly, having a good TD:INT ratio is important, but if you throw 15TD's and 2 picks, that's just not a lot of production. I'd much rather have a guy throw 25 TD's and 6 picks. Even though that's a worse ratio. Well, I agree, but you're also the one who asked to rank them in order of importance... and it sure seemed like passing yards was #1 on your list based on the nature of the question. So, what's the order for you...? For me, I think this argument boils down to efficiency vs volume. In an ideal world, you have both probably. But for me efficiency trumps volume any day of the week. Balt, Mia 1, NE 2, Cincy, Oak, Pitt There are 6. 6 is more than a few. I hope that number doesn't rise without the creampuffs on next years schedule. Now cross reference Taylor's bad games with bad games of all other NFL QBs... How low is his floor compared to say Jay Cutler or Alex Smith? Edited March 19, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 that brings into question what is actually considered a "bad game" There were very few "bad games' to put this perspective in a slightly different light... there were very few 'good' games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Well, I agree, but you're also the one who asked to rank them in order of importance... and it sure seemed like passing yards was #1 on your list based on the nature of the question. So, what's the order for you...? For me, I think this argument boils down to efficiency vs volume. In an ideal world, you have both probably. But for me efficiency trumps volume any day of the week. Now cross reference Taylor's bad games with bad games of all other NFL QBs... How low is his floor compared to say Jay Cutler or Alex Smith? If the QB sucks he sucks why the comparison, no need for it, don't care what others do or don't do, it's not about them. In any event you know your QB sucks when your comparison is Jay Cutler. When you say Jordan Mills sucks are you comparing him to the other RT in the league? Doubt it because he just sucks out loud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Well, I agree, but you're also the one who asked to rank them in order of importance... and it sure seemed like passing yards was #1 on your list based on the nature of the question. So, what's the order for you...? For me, I think this argument boils down to efficiency vs volume. In an ideal world, you have both probably. But for me efficiency trumps volume any day of the week. Now cross reference Taylor's bad games with bad games of all other NFL QBs... How low is his floor compared to say Jay Cutler or Alex Smith? Why don't we cross reference it with the 20 of his peers that rank higher than him ? Just keeping my boy John's claims in check. He loves a little too hard sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Welcome transplant. I enjoyed reading your research, and someone made a point about productivity, vs. losing every starting WR corp for a good portion of the game. The Bills had no better options, saved money. On the contract, Taylor gets more time to prove himself, and we have I hope a better coaching staff. We'll see after the draft and the second tier free agency pans out. I'm reserving judgment, but if Taylor had guys like AJ Green, and other star WR, would we see a much different Taylor. I don't know. I like the comment by the coaching staff of a philosophy to go taller with WR when you have a 6'1" QB. We still have a good line, great running game, and expect the defense to be better with this staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 So in your world one good game outweighs 4 or more bad ones. Whatever!That sums it up. 1 or 2 good games is justification for some. Me I want to see 6 or more excellent games before I fully buy in. He's good, but has work to do. If that mKes me a guy who doesn't like Tyrod then those people are confusing fact with fiction. to put this perspective in a slightly different light... there were very few 'good' games. I'd be more specific there were very few 'great ' games. there were very few closing or if games leaving the other team the opportunity to gain the lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Why does it have to be that you're either "gushing over" Taylor or you think he sucks? You've had your mind made up on Taylor for a long time and you and many of your ilk view any changes in perspective on him as a bad thing. I'm sorry, this is the real world, not politics. If I want to change my perspective after seeing Taylor play probably his best game on the football field in his last game from "I don't think Taylor's maybe an NFL starter, but not good enough" after what was a bad 4 game stretch to "I still don't think Taylor's our long term answer, but he can capably be our starter for the time being and has the opportunity to prove he's more, but I want Whaley & Co to draft a QB high," then I'm going to do it. You remain admirably steadfast, that's fine by me. But if you think just because I started a thread about positive areas on the field for Taylor in 2016 while stating directly in the beginning I don't think he's the long term answer and view him as a Bridge QB that I'm gushing over Taylor... then whatever... Great - believe that if you want - I guess. I would believe you if this was your first TT post about this stuff, but considering that I showed how many posts you started about TT (and it has been brought up in this thread also) and not one of them objective and not one of them did you even consider the fact that your own bias could influence what you see or believe. Even in this post - people talk about the fact that there were still a bunch of issues over the middle and you act like you have the definitive research. This is 2 years of this and you were incorrect last offseason and you were shown to be incorrect this offseason. His agent had feelers out to teams and then he "decides" to take a huge pay cut in bot money, guaranteed money, and years, but that was not because he heard his true value - it was because he is a great guy that loves Buffalo. My mind is made up by what he does on the field and what the coaching staff and GM has stated he needs to improve on both last season and this season. He needs to improve - I am even open to believing that with a new and talented coaching staff - he can improve. I do not think he sucks - as I have stated many time - he was probably the best bet for this team for 2017, but not at the old contract - he just is not ever going to be a long term answer at the position and that is what we need to be successful. With the new contract it is fine and the Bills can move on after this year or next year. You on the other hand start thread after thread after thread trying to justify why he is a starter and this load of diaper material about his improvements. He is a starter because of his athletic ability and the fact that he took a huge page cut. The rest of the stuff is just filler that you posted to try to make yourself feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Great - believe that if you want - I guess. I would believe you if this was your first TT post about this stuff, but considering that I showed how many posts you started about TT (and it has been brought up in this thread also) and not one of them objective and not one of them did you even consider the fact that your own bias could influence what you see or believe. Even in this post - people talk about the fact that there were still a bunch of issues over the middle and you act like you have the definitive research. This is 2 years of this and you were incorrect last offseason and you were shown to be incorrect this offseason. His agent had feelers out to teams and then he "decides" to take a huge pay cut in bot money, guaranteed money, and years, but that was not because he heard his true value - it was because he is a great guy that loves Buffalo. My mind is made up by what he does on the field and what the coaching staff and GM has stated he needs to improve on both last season and this season. He needs to improve - I am even open to believing that with a new and talented coaching staff - he can improve. I do not think he sucks - as I have stated many time - he was probably the best bet for this team for 2017, but not at the old contract - he just is not ever going to be a long term answer at the position and that is what we need to be successful. With the new contract it is fine and the Bills can move on after this year or next year. You on the other hand start thread after thread after thread trying to justify why he is a starter and this load of diaper material about his improvements. He is a starter because of his athletic ability and the fact that he took a huge page cut. The rest of the stuff is just filler that you posted to try to make yourself feel better. You can put the back-up qb in and do the victory formation on this dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 You can put the back-up qb in and do the victory formation on this dialogue. TT superfans saw Dilfer and Frankenmanning win a sb. Because of that there is always some sort of hope. Let's just get an all time great defense and it's on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 BBMBers need to understand that multiple threads on one topic is taboo here Yes it is more liberal here but there are still rules to abide by Do this and some of the bickering will stop TT superfans saw Dilfer and Frankenmanning win a sb. Because of that there is always some sort of hope. Let's just get an all time great defense and it's on. This is true and as you noted to this day Dilfer is credited as JAG with a great defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 So in your world one good game outweighs 4 or more bad ones. Whatever! What are you even talking about? No, one game doesn't outweigh 4. I didn't ever say it did. Great - believe that if you want - I guess. I would believe you if this was your first TT post about this stuff, but considering that I showed how many posts you started about TT (and it has been brought up in this thread also) and not one of them objective and not one of them did you even consider the fact that your own bias could influence what you see or believe. Even in this post - people talk about the fact that there were still a bunch of issues over the middle and you act like you have the definitive research. This is 2 years of this and you were incorrect last offseason and you were shown to be incorrect this offseason. His agent had feelers out to teams and then he "decides" to take a huge pay cut in bot money, guaranteed money, and years, but that was not because he heard his true value - it was because he is a great guy that loves Buffalo. My mind is made up by what he does on the field and what the coaching staff and GM has stated he needs to improve on both last season and this season. He needs to improve - I am even open to believing that with a new and talented coaching staff - he can improve. I do not think he sucks - as I have stated many time - he was probably the best bet for this team for 2017, but not at the old contract - he just is not ever going to be a long term answer at the position and that is what we need to be successful. With the new contract it is fine and the Bills can move on after this year or next year. You on the other hand start thread after thread after thread trying to justify why he is a starter and this load of diaper material about his improvements. He is a starter because of his athletic ability and the fact that he took a huge page cut. The rest of the stuff is just filler that you posted to try to make yourself feel better. I've told you time after time after time why I start Taylor threads. QB is about all I enjoy talking about extensively. You think I'm not being objective. I say neither are you. Objectivity is impossible in this case. I'm a lot more objective than some, though, unless you think I made up the research... I didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 20, 2017 Author Share Posted March 20, 2017 BBMBers need to understand that multiple threads on one topic is taboo here Yes it is more liberal here but there are still rules to abide by Do this and some of the bickering will stop Sorry. I truly am... Is there another thread here like this one? I've seen a ton of Taylor threads just scrolling through pages... so the multiple threads on one topic being frowned upon is either crap or a scare tactic for newbies. I was hesitant to actually create this thread... that's why I took my time to make it as comprehensive as possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 If the QB sucks he sucks why the comparison, no need for it, don't care what others do or don't do, it's not about them. In any event you know your QB sucks when your comparison is Jay Cutler. When you say Jordan Mills sucks are you comparing him to the other RT in the league? Doubt it because he just sucks out loud! That right there is your damn problem in a nutshell....you just dont friggen get it All you care about is that you dont have a top 5 qb on your team.....even though they are impossible to find....and that the majority of the NFL cant find them either But your gods special little butterfly to put this perspective in a slightly different light... there were very few 'good' games. agreed.....somewhere right in the middle which is not good enough....lets get move weapons on the offense and see how we do Great - believe that if you want - I guess. I would believe you if this was your first TT post about this stuff, but considering that I showed how many posts you started about TT (and it has been brought up in this thread also) and not one of them objective and not one of them did you even consider the fact that your own bias could influence what you see or believe. Even in this post - people talk about the fact that there were still a bunch of issues over the middle and you act like you have the definitive research. This is 2 years of this and you were incorrect last offseason and you were shown to be incorrect this offseason. His agent had feelers out to teams and then he "decides" to take a huge pay cut in bot money, guaranteed money, and years, but that was not because he heard his true value - it was because he is a great guy that loves Buffalo. My mind is made up by what he does on the field and what the coaching staff and GM has stated he needs to improve on both last season and this season. He needs to improve - I am even open to believing that with a new and talented coaching staff - he can improve. I do not think he sucks - as I have stated many time - he was probably the best bet for this team for 2017, but not at the old contract - he just is not ever going to be a long term answer at the position and that is what we need to be successful. With the new contract it is fine and the Bills can move on after this year or next year. You on the other hand start thread after thread after thread trying to justify why he is a starter and this load of diaper material about his improvements. He is a starter because of his athletic ability and the fact that he took a huge page cut. The rest of the stuff is just filler that you posted to try to make yourself feel better. actually....he is providing hard data.....which is a hell of a lot better then the "he just sucks cuz i say so" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) Sorry. I truly am... Is there another thread here like this one? I've seen a ton of Taylor threads just scrolling through pages... so the multiple threads on one topic being frowned upon is either crap or a scare tactic for newbies. I was hesitant to actually create this thread... that's why I took my time to make it as comprehensive as possible... Trans, this thread has gone in excess of 20 pages, so it's creation is clearly warranted. no need to pet the sweaty things... Edited March 20, 2017 by Foxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Sorry. I truly am... Is there another thread here like this one? I've seen a ton of Taylor threads just scrolling through pages... so the multiple threads on one topic being frowned upon is either crap or a scare tactic for newbies. I was hesitant to actually create this thread... that's why I took my time to make it as comprehensive as possible... Yes, all of us who know you understand that all of your threads are as comprehensive as possible. Ergo it's been discussed. If I sensed a bit of snarkyness ... If the name Tyrod Taylor is in it, then yes, there is. Again, this is not the BBMB. seen a ton of Taylor threads, so we have to act like lemmings? One of the things they didn't do there is stress duplicate threads, yet the would merge them. Use the search function and keep the number of repetitive threads to a minimum. Its a simple request. Why must we have dozens of TT threads? To argue the same points over and over and over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 That right there is your damn problem in a nutshell....you just dont friggen get it All you care about is that you dont have a top 5 qb on your team.....even though they are impossible to find....and that the majority of the NFL cant find them either But your gods special little butterfly Kind of like all you care about that the defense wasn't top 5. I get it johnny boy, you're a hypocrite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 That right there is your damn problem in a nutshell....you just dont friggen get it All you care about is that you dont have a top 5 qb on your team.....even though they are impossible to find....and that the majority of the NFL cant find them either But your gods special little butterfly agreed.....somewhere right in the middle which is not good enough....lets get move weapons on the offense and see how we do actually....he is providing hard data.....which is a hell of a lot better then the "he just sucks cuz i say so" Old school ain't the qb who failed when the games mattered. Why are you attacking him ? It's Taylor you're mad at John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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