K-9 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I think Donald Jones theory is correct. Tyrod has a lot of sideline and comeback throws because he's not very good at throwing to moving targets....outside of deep balls. Roman also didn't call these either. Seems like Tyrod isn't comfortable with them or he doesn't see them very well. It was one of the things our QB Lee tried to work with him on during the offseason. Throwing slants late can lead to a disaster....you often times have to fit these in tight windows. If Tyrod wants to take the next step, he needs to improve on anticipation. Greg Cosell watched film on him and said lacking anticipation becomes a bigger problem over time with a QB. He's not confident Tyrod can improve this but we'll see....let's hope he can. Cosell was right in that regard. Defenses learn to sit on those stationary targets. Yes, superior athleticism will allow Sammy to beat his man deep and for TT to hit him, but you can't make a living on the go route alone. It's simply not sustainable. It worries me that both Roman and Lynn shied away from certain routes because of limitations of the QB. Saying coaches have to fit schemes to their player's strengths is sometimes a different way of saying they have to avoid their weaknesses. Bottom line is, if TT can't throw the entire route tree and utilize the entire field in the process we will struggle, regardless how much his legs and our running game flourish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Long post bud lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Long post bud lol Lol, I know right. Who has time for all this reading non sense.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Interesting reading thanks. There's no reason to think that any QB with a strong work ethic can't continually improve. It seems that the numbers support this too, which is encouraging, especially considering the WR injuries. Dennison might just be the best possible OC for our skillset, I'm glad we will get to see he and Tyrod back together again, I'm sure they're fired up for this season. We will grab a solid WR2 in the second round (after we draft peppers) and I hope it's a durable one. We need some consistency in a bad way this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Do you not realize how ridiculous this sounds? "It's not over the middle that's the problem, it's the deep and intermediate third. He can throw the ball just fine three yards inside the numbers, but once he's throwing it 4+ yards he's not good!" I do indeed realize how ridiculous it sounds. To those who are desperate fans of Tyrod and won't hear anything against him, it sounds very ridiculous. To those with open minds, it makes total sense. You're looking at the middle 11.5625% of the field between the hashes because you can find stats about it, and you're looking at that middle 11.5625% from the line of scrimmage fo, and in fact also behind the line. I'm looking at the middle 33.33% of the field and only from ten yards out ... for the obvious reason that that's where he rarely throws and that he has problems when he does throw there. And since there are major differences between those two areas, of course he might throw differently between them. Duh. You include short passes in yours, behind the line and from the LOS to nine yards out. Thing is, nobody's ever accused Tyrod of having trouble there. He clearly throws quite well on balls thrown in the middle if they're less than ten yards. Always has. So again, it's not ridiculous at all to point out differences when you include the shorter and easier throws that he's good at, and which I (and everyone) agree he's good at. Why did I pick the area I picked? Because it's clearly where he has problems. The pundits and experts agree. Why did you pick the area you picked? Because it's easy to find stats about it. And because since Tyrod threw 285 passes of the 436 passes (65.3%) your stat source (ESPN and their Tyrod Splits) shows that he threw this year were ten yards or less. So if you throw in the short passes he's good at with the intermediate and long middle passes he's not, then yeah you can bury the bad stats with the good ones. A great tactic if you're trying to make Tyrod look good at any cost. Interesting reading thanks. There's no reason to think that any QB with a strong work ethic can't continually improve.durable one. We need some consistency in a bad way this year. QBs - players, really - tend to improve until they plateau. And then if they improve it's generally year to year and fairly minimal. We do indeed need consistency, but extremely few QBs who haven't shown themselves by their sixth year to be a franchise guy then improve enough to become one. Gannon, really. That's about it. No, not Steve Young who was already looking very good when he saw action as Montana's backup in his fifth and sixth years. You can maybe argue Plunkett, though I'd disagree. But that's about it, and there have been hundreds of guys who've had the chance to do so. I'm hoping too, but the chances are pretty minimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) It's false? Wait, so you're saying he did have his top WRs despite the fact that Woods and Watkins missed a combined 11 games this NFL season? Are you saying that Goodwin, Hunter, Powell, and Tate are his top WRs? I know you can't be saying that, because the fact that he didn't have his top WRs is 100% true. So, what you must be saying is that all those other guys were constantly open in the way true #1 and #2 WRs get open... am I right? If that's what you're saying, I think you should spend some time going and watching #1 and #2 WRs across the NFL and examine not only how they get open but the types of contested catches and plays those guys make on the NFL field. Heck, you can just examine Watkins and Woods themselves. There's a reason Taylor was significantly better as a passer in every statistical category when he had both Woods and Watkins on the field. Sure, you can point to individual plays where those other scrubs got open. But you aren't providing the context of your argument when you do that... are they getting as open as consistently as #1 and #2 WRs across the NFL? How often do those other QBs across the NFL simply not throw a pass to those guys? That's what you really need to look at. Your argument is one I've seen made by Thurm when we were over at BBMB. And it's an argument in a vacuum, with absolutely no context whatsoever. Provide the context if you want. Otherwise you're just making a claim that has little meaning. It has a lot of meaning. Again, I watched the All-22 of six games without Woods or Sammy, play by play, slowly and repeatedly looking at each play and what happened. Guys were open, significantly open, consistently. And you can kid yourself that any argument that can't be backed up by statistics is wrong. But that is incorrect. "Are they getting as open as consistently as #1 and #2 WRs across the NFL? How often do those other QBs across the NFL simply not throw a pass to those guys?" is what you expect us to prove, correct? It's unprovable. As is the opposite. You bear just as much of the burden of proof here as we do. Neither of us can produce statistics - there are none. Your assumption that this proves you win is laughable. What's observable is that there were open receivers this year. A lot of them. I watched six games on the All-22, analyzing carefully. I found maybe two or three plays a game where Tyrod didn't have a very good option, a guy open in the area of the field where he had a chance to see them. And that's what pretty much everyone who watches the All-22 says. I posted a ton of play-by-play analysis on the other site. That's now gone but the argument remains. He simply wasn't throwing to open guys he had good chances to throw to. It was a consistent problem. It's what Cosell has said, it's what Andy Benoit has said after a ton of serious tape analysis. He left a lot of yards on the field. Edited March 16, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 16, 2017 Author Share Posted March 16, 2017 It's not that he took less overall and guaranteed money, he also put himself back in a contract where the Bills can walk away from after a year or two....not strong job security. Tyrod said him and his agent made the decision that the restructured contract was the best bet for him 2 days before they agreed to it. If he is being 100% honest, why couldn't that decision have been made almost immediately? He admitted they talked to other teams to get feelers. Why? Why did he explore when Buffalo is where he wanted to be the whole time? Why? I don't know. I don't have answers for anything that happened. Neither does anyone else. I said when the season ended it was going to be one big game of chicken until someone flinches, from the moment Taylor said he would have been willing to restructure on clean-out day was. Once he said that, he lost a lot of leverage. And yeah, he talked to other teams, but we don't know anything more than that. Maybe you're right (that is, if you're one of the people here claiming you know why Taylor took less money) and Taylor found out few teams would be interested and they wouldn't offer much. Or maybe the teams interested were offering him significant money, but the teams themselves weren't teams he wanted to be with for whatever reason. Or maybe he was "going through the motions" and telling his agent to go talking to teams but make sure it gets back to Whaley that he's doing as part of that larger game of chicken. I don't know, do you? Or are you just guessing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 16, 2017 Author Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) You don't consider yourself a Tyrod extremist? No. I can already see you and Thurm belly-laughing, but you guys labelled me that way because everyone needs to be somehow set in camps in your worlds. If I were a Tyrod extremist, wouldn't I be calling him our Franchise QB? Wouldn't I be out buying a Taylor jersey? I already said this about 1000 times, I was disappointed overall by Taylor in 2016 and the 4 game stretch from Cincinnati to Pittsburgh was a true low point for him. However, I really think this becomes a larger question of which is more important: how high is your ceiling or how high is your floor? What I think we're quite clear on is Taylor's floor, and although some will argue otherwise, his floor is significantly higher than many NFL QBs (yes, that does largely go back to protecting the football), but what I don't think we know for sure is what his ceiling is or (if you think games like Seattle and the 2nd Miami game are his ceiling) whether he can play more consistently to his ceiling than his floor. I don't think I'm an extremist. I just like talking football and QB is the most interesting position to me. Sorry, I don't like talking about Kickers and Kick Returners or Offensive Linemen. That's why I stay out of those threads and type out posts about our QB. Long post bud lol I figure I just get all that out in a single post and I don't have to irritate old-timers with another thread for a long, long time. Edited March 16, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 This guy is clearly delusional. The CoT certainly welcomes such a loyal subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 No. I can already see you and Thurm belly-laughing, but you guys labelled me that way because everyone needs to be somehow set in camps in your worlds. If I were a Tyrod extremist, wouldn't I be calling him our Franchise QB? Wouldn't I be out buying a Taylor jersey? I already said this about 1000 times, I was disappointed overall by Taylor in 2016 and the 4 game stretch from Cincinnati to Pittsburgh was a true low point for him. However, I really think this becomes a larger question of which is more important: how high is your ceiling or how high is your floor? What I think we're quite clear on is Taylor's floor, and although some will argue otherwise, his floor is significantly higher than many NFL QBs (yes, that does largely go back to protecting the football), but what I don't think we know for sure is what his ceiling is or (if you think games like Seattle and the 2nd Miami game are his ceiling) whether he can play more consistently to his ceiling than his floor. I don't think I'm an extremist. I just like talking football and QB is the most interesting position to me. Sorry, I don't like talking about Kickers and Kick Returners or Offensive Linemen. That's why I stay out of those threads and type out posts about our QB. I figure I just get all that out in a single post and I don't have to irritate old-timers with another thread for a long, long time. Which the Bills and many of us agreed is a bottom 5 QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPT Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 What's observable is that there were open receivers this year. A lot of them. I watched six games on the All-22, analyzing carefully. I found maybe two or three plays a game where Tyrod didn't have a very good option, a guy open in the area of the field where he had a chance to see them. Hey, man. Let's not get carried away. I agree that Taylor has some pretty obvious flaws about seeing and hitting open receivers, but that statement is more absurd than anything the CoT could come up with. You think there are only two or three plays a game where our receivers aren't wide open? Matt Ryan and Ben Roethlisberger couldn't even make that claim, and they're working with the best receivers in the game. We trotted out arguably the worst WR corps in the league this season. Don't try and tell us they were beating coverage on every single play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 This guy is clearly delusional. The CoT certainly welcomes such a loyal subject. The CoT don't know they are in a cult. It's like the Moonies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoto Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 When Tyrod, comes off the field he doesn't study the previous defenses, he doesn't try to motivate his offense line he just sits on bench, several TV clips of him just sitting there, sorry but I'm not going to waste time trying to find theses pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPT Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 The CoT don't know they are in a cult. It's like the Moonies. You realize that all the fanatical anti-Tyrod trolls are also a cult, right? The guy has strengths and flaws. Only pointing out his flaws is just as silly as only pointing out his strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Bills 399 points Franchise Cousins team 396 points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) You realize that all the fanatical anti-Tyrod trolls are also a cult, right? The guy has strengths and flaws. Only pointing out his flaws is just as silly as only pointing out his strengths. Um, no. The anti-Tyrod people are well aware that Tyrod throws a great out and go route. He can't make every NFL throw as his current NFL games indicate. It's the CoT crew who lose track of reality and say ridiculous things like Tyrod is comparable to Russell Wilson. Edited March 16, 2017 by jeffismagic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Which the Bills and many of us agreed is a bottom 5 QB. Which the Bills and many of us agreed is a bottom 5 QB. Tyrod isn't great but hes not a bottom 5 QB... From simply last year's starters (not potential), you would rather cutler, fitz, osweiler, kaepernick, keenum, wentz, mccown, siemien, bortles, Bradford? Those are just 10 at the top of my head who were easily worse than tyrod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) Bills 399 points Franchise Cousins team 396 points Cousins pantsed Tyrod Another solid donut put up in first half vs a meh defense http://youtube.com/watch?feature=onebox&v=UxC8klUIwDg Edited March 16, 2017 by Ryan L Billz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Tyrod isn't great but hes not a bottom 5 QB... From simply last year's starters (not potential), you would rather cutler, fitz, osweiler, kaepernick, keenum, wentz, mccown, siemien, bortles, Bradford? Those are just 10 at the top of my head who were easily worse than tyrod So why didn't the Bills pick up Tyrod's option and pay him as a bottom 10 QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 So why didn't the Bills pick up Tyrod's option and pay him as a bottom 10 QB? Lol I am not a GM or agent, I was simply saying tyrod is not a bottom 5 QB, and listed 10 QBS that are easily worse than him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts