Dorkington Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 I'm a big fan of the stats in the OP, and its why I've long held that TT is roughly an average starting QB in the NFL. Last year he was down 3 of his top 4 WRs, that has an impact on an average QB. Sure, we'd wish for him to make use of anyone ala Brady, but he's not Brady so it's not happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 I'm a big fan of the stats in the OP, and its why I've long held that TT is roughly an average starting QB in the NFL. Last year he was down 3 of his top 4 WRs, that has an impact on an average QB. Sure, we'd wish for him to make use of anyone ala Brady, but he's not Brady so it's not happening. Robert Woods played 13 games, Clay played 15, Goodwin played 15, Sammy 8. Ya'll make it sound like his starting WR's were Salas and Tate all year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Robert Woods played 13 games, Clay played 15, Goodwin played 15, Sammy 8. Ya'll make it sound like his starting WR's were Salas and Tate all year. Salas missed the entire year, he was WR3... so yes, missing WR1, WR2 and WR3 for extended periods does have an impact. There's a reason Clay got the most targets on the team. I'd love for Tyrod to be good enough where missing WR1 for half the year, and WR3 for the full year doesn't make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsMedia Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Lack of weapons led the the decline in the 2016 season. In addition, the increase in the running game led to less QB play from Tyrod Taylor. 2017 is starting out with a severe lack of weapons at WR so we could see him struggle again this year if we don't get a legitimate WR early in the draft. Philly Brown certainly wont be any sort of addition, he was AWFUL in Carolina last year. One of league leaders in drops. Get Tyrod help, win games. Simple Math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 How many drops did the backup WRs have? Who was watched tape and seen them wide open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) Salas missed the entire year, he was WR3... so yes, missing WR1, WR2 and WR3 for extended periods does have an impact. There's a reason Clay got the most targets on the team. I'd love for Tyrod to be good enough where missing WR1 for half the year, and WR3 for the full year doesn't make a difference. Again, Woods played 13 games. What's this "extended period?" That was 2 less than TT played. Salas had 700 yards in his 6 year career. An impact loss? Really? He hadn't caught more than 10 passes in a season since 2011. Edited March 13, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 20 in 2016 seems about right. 10 in 2015 is a bit high, but maybe around 14-16. Hahaha so the lower number is right and the higher number is wrong? That is !@#$ing amazing! They are either both right or both wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Robert Woods played 13 games, Clay played 15, Goodwin played 15, Sammy 8. Ya'll make it sound like his starting WR's were Salas and Tate all year. Sammy didn't really play 8 - he played more like 5.5-6 games when you factor in all of time he had to sit out because of pain management in the early games and when he first returned from IR. That's a deceiving stat, and I suspect you know this ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Robert Woods played 13 games, Clay played 15, Goodwin played 15, Sammy 8. Ya'll make it sound like his starting WR's were Salas and Tate all year. Robert Woods played hurt most the year Sammy was out then then played hurt the rest of the year Goodwin (are you kidding me with this?) Clay played....but when your other receiving options are parking valet's? You conveniently leave out who he DID have to throw to....which were street free agents and O'Leary the majority of the team Stop downplaying the situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) Sammy didn't really play 8 - he played more like 5.5-6 games when you factor in all of time he had to sit out because of pain management in the early games and when he first returned from IR. That's a deceiving stat, and I suspect you know this ... Fair enough. Goodwin played 60% of our offensive snaps, Woods 59.5%, Sammy 39.5%. You'll find most teams have their #2 WR's around 60-65%. Robert Woods played hurt most the year Sammy was out then then played hurt the rest of the year Goodwin (are you kidding me with this?) Clay played....but when your other receiving options are parking valet's? You conveniently leave out who he DID have to throw to....which were street free agents and O'Leary the majority of the team Stop downplaying the situation Lots of players play hurt. Go down the list of NFL WR's and tell me which ones didn't so we can throw out their #'s. Edited March 13, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Tyrod sucks. That's why he restructured his deal...nobody else wanted to pay him either. Even the hardest TT critics here don't think he SUCKS. But I'm sure your opinion is more qualified than mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Again, Woods played 13 games. What's this "extended period?" That was 2 less than TT played. Salas had 700 yards in his 6 year career. An impact loss? Really? He hadn't caught more than 10 passes in a season since 2011. You know, of course, there's a middle ground here. I don't think anyone can say that Tyrod had a strong (healthy, talented) receiving corps week in and week out in 2016. In fact, he may have had one of the worst set of targets in the NFL. I don't think anyone can say Tyrod was a particularly good passer in 2016. He often failed to see the open guy. And even when he did, his accuracy was inconsistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 You know, of course, there's a middle ground here. I don't think anyone can say that Tyrod had a strong (healthy, talented) receiving corps week in and week out in 2016. In fact, he may have had one of the worst set of targets in the NFL. I don't think anyone can say Tyrod was a particularly good passer in 2016. He often failed to see the open guy. And even when he did, his accuracy was inconsistent. I don't think anyone is arguing that a 16 game season of healthy Watkins doesn't make TT look a little better. But it won't make him anything more than he is, which is a deficient passing wildcat QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Firechan just became TBD's largest troll. Wildcat QB.....wow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) Firechan just became TBD's largest troll. Wildcat QB.....wow... What is TT's greatest asset to the offense? His legs. He's a way better runner than passer. I rest my case. Edited March 13, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Goodwin played 60% of our offensive snaps, Woods 59.5%, Sammy 39.5%. You'll find most teams have their #2 WR's around 60-65%.. Will we find that? How about some proof. Here's mine: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts Woods played less snaps than Goodwin. Do I even need to say anything else? Or are you going to argue that "most teams" have their #3 playing more than their #2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Tyrod sucks. That's why he restructured his deal...nobody else wanted to pay him either. Very constructive and on-topic posting... Guess you can never run away from this type of posting, apparently. Too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Agree to disagree I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Will we find that? How about some proof. Here's mine: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts Woods played less snaps than Goodwin. Do I even need to say anything else? Or are you going to argue that "most teams" have their #3 playing more than their #2? I mean, I just said that. Clearly when you have Sammy taking up 40% of the snaps then ditching for 8 games, it's gonna throw everybody off. Goodwin was the #3 who turned #2. Woods turned #1. Furthermore, I have no reason to believe we ran 3 WR sets as much as some of the other teams in the league. That also throws off the snap count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 I mean, I just said that. Clearly when you have Sammy taking up 40% of the snaps then ditching for 8 games, it's gonna throw everybody off. Goodwin was the #3 who turned #2. Woods turned #1. Furthermore, I have no reason to believe we ran 3 WR sets as much as some of the other teams in the league. That also throws off the snap count. Woods turned #1... except he was constantly injured. Maybe he officially started 13 game but he sure didn't take snaps like a receiver that started 13 games. In a lot of those he was extremely limited. So I don't know where you're getting this idea that Woods took snaps like a normal #2. He didn't, it really wasn't even close based on that chart. There were numerous times where our top 2 was Goodwin and Powell. Anywhere up to 40% of the time actually, but it was probably slightly less than that. Even if 1/3 of all snaps we were missing Woods and Watkins, you don't think that would have a detrimental effect on ANY quarterback in the league? There were also times where Goodwin was injured in addition to Watkins and Woods. I mean come on, Tyrod isn't a top 5 elite QB, he needs more than that. It's perfectly reasonable to argue that most if not all of Tyrod's drop off from year 1 to year 2 was because of receiver depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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