The Trump Economy

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, daz28 said:

 We've already mostly lost job pensions and health care.

 

We lost health care because SOMEONE decided it would be a bright idea to have the government handle health insurance mandates and acceptable pre-existing conditions.

 

I said it then (you can research it if you'd like), the ACA was a BAD idea. They should have either gone to a medicare-for-all or left the market alone.

 

Half-assing it wasn't the answer, it never is.

 

As far as pensions go, I'll give you an anecdotal story. My father worked as a materials engineer for Bethlehem Steel for 40 years. A pension was part of his package of benefits. Know what that package is worth today? Zero. Why? Because the company which promised it doesn't exist any more. Fortunately for him, he was bright enough to understand that it wasn't something that was sustainable, and made preparations for his own retirement.

 

[daz28]

2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

So what you’re saying is we give people in debt more money to spend?  I assume your in favor of giving drug addicts free drugs?  

If you're going that route, our discussion is done.  I don't do suppositions.  Have a great Mother's day.  

1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

We lost health care because SOMEONE decided it would be a bright idea to have the government handle health insurance mandates and acceptable pre-existing conditions.

 

I said it then (you can research it if you'd like), the ACA was a BAD idea. They should have either gone to a medicare-for-all or left the market alone.

 

Half-assing it wasn't the answer, it never is.

 

As far as pensions go, I'll give you an anecdotal story. My father worked as a materials engineer for Bethlehem Steel for 40 years. A pension was part of his package of benefits. Know what that package is worth today? Zero. Why? Because the company which promised it doesn't exist any more. Fortunately for him, he was bright enough to understand that it wasn't something that was sustainable, and made preparations for his own retirement.

 

We tried the ACA BECAUSE our job related health care was already gone.

 

As for your dad's pension, well someone took off with the money.  Who let them?

[Chef Jim]

2 minutes ago, daz28 said:

If you're going that route, our discussion is done.  I don't do suppositions.  Have a great Mother's day.  

 Excuse me?  Then why are you here? 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, daz28 said:

If you're going that route, our discussion is done.  I don't do suppositions.  Have a great Mother's day.  

We tried the ACA BECAUSE our job related health care was already gone.

 

As for your dad's pension, well someone took off with the money.  Who let them?

 

The bankruptcy courts gave it to creditors, obviously.

 

Edit: as far as "healthcare being gone," I had FANTASTIC coverage from work pre-ACA. It went to ***** AFTER ACA. SO, instead of blaming the government for ***** it all up, I should blame my employer?

 

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Joe in Winslow

[daz28]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

 Excuse me?  Then why are you here? 

Not here to have someone tell me I probably want to give free drugs to drugs addicts.  If you want to discuss a topic, stick to it.

7 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

I am not sure what a market capilist Libertarian is, but I am pretty sure I am prolly one.

 

But why in the world would you want the bolded? My wife and I am worked our butts off our whole lives, lived conservatively, saved a ton, have relatively no debt outside of that we want like mortgages, paid off both of our student loans, are paying for my kids education., and have a pretty nice sum saved for reitrement...and you want to reward people who have done the opposite? Who lived the good life while we scrimped  and saved? 

That's not what I meant, and maybe I worded it wrong.  What I meant is why give the cuts to those already wealthy if they weren't going to invest it.  It should have went to you, I and they other struggling Americans.  I guess I was just putting us all in the average American with debt category

3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

The bankruptcy courts gave it to creditors, obviously.

 

Edit: as far as "healthcare being gone," I had FANTASTIC coverage from work pre-ACA. It went to ***** AFTER ACA. SO, instead of blaming the government for ***** it all up, I should blame my employer?

 

 

The percentage of Americans who did have what you had was far lower than those 30 years previously.  I'm not trying to argue the ACA with you, I was simply pointing out it was an attempt to address that issue for many people

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, daz28 said:

Not here to have someone tell me I probably want to give free drugs to drugs addicts.  If you want to discuss a topic, stick to it.

It’s called a metaphor.   

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, daz28 said:

The percentage of Americans who did have what you had was far lower than those 30 years previously.  I'm not trying to argue the ACA with you, I was simply pointing out it was an attempt to address that issue for many people

A really piss-poor attempt that instead of raising up many people, lowered many others.

 

 

[daz28]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

It’s called a metaphor.   

You mean like an apple is a metaphor for an orange?

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

A really piss-poor attempt that instead of raising up many people, lowered many others.

 

 

Part of that issue is that both sides of the political isle really don't care to make the other look good.  Has either party introduced anything the other party would even remotely agree to?  The ACA, as you probably already know, was forced through so the Obama administration could say they did something good.  Did they have good intentions, absolutely, but they took what they could get and ran.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 minutes ago, daz28 said:

You mean like an apple is a metaphor for an orange?

Part of that issue is that both sides of the political isle really don't care to make the other look good.  Has either party introduced anything the other party would even remotely agree to?  The ACA, as you probably already know, was forced through so the Obama administration could say they did something good.  Did they have good intentions, absolutely, but they took what they could get and ran.  

 

There are not two sides to the political aisle. Most of these politicians serve the same interests.

 

It's one of the reasons I voted Trump. He's not one of them. It's also the reason I voted Perot many years ago. He wasn't one of them.

 

Populism and anti-globalism is the answer to our nation's woes, along with a complete teardown of the establishment.

 

[daz28]

2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

There are not two sides to the political aisle. Most of these politicians serve the same interests.

 

It's one of the reasons I voted Trump. He's not one of them. It's also the reason I voted Perot many years ago. He wasn't one of them.

 

Populism and anti-globalism is the answer to our nation's woes, along with a complete teardown of the establishment.

 

Yes, that's true.  maybe I should have said the illusion of a political isle.  

 

I voted Perot as well, but wasn't upset about Clinton.  

 

I'd say absolutely that Trump has morphed into a Republican, though

Edited May 10, 2020 by daz28

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, daz28 said:

I'd say absolutely that Trump has morphed into a Republican, though

 

Then you're ignoring how a pretty sizeable chunk of the Republican party hates him.

 

[daz28]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Then you're ignoring how a pretty sizeable chunk of the Republican party hates him.

 

Maybe of the electorate, but Congress seems to have his back pretty solidly.  Publicly at least.

[3rdnlng]

2 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

i think looking at the meat industry is perfect to help form our response, I agree. Lets test everyone in the plants, and crank the numbers to establish how many are positive and asympatomatic, how many hospitalizations, deaths etc. I mean, can there be a worse envirnoment for transmitting than in those plants? 

 

Maybe those numbers have already been established, i am not aware of them. 

 

And i do not agree that the response has no consequenes....liquor sales for the months of March and  April in VA..equivalnt every week to the week of Thanksgiving...that means people are slamming booze at record numbers ..look at the amount of vacinations young kids are getting now..way down..42% in April CDC estimates.

Two things:

 

Are you including the liquor that restaurants and bars were previously ordering?

 

Are there any adjacent states that have shut down their liquor stores? The liquor stores in NYS are having a booming business from PA customers who can't purchase hard liquor in PA. 

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, daz28 said:

You mean like an apple is a metaphor for an orange?

 

No. Expecting people who live in debt to use tax breaks to reduce their debt is like feeding a drug addict expecting them to quit drugs. That kind of metaphor. 

[daz28]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

No. Expecting people who live in debt to use tax breaks to reduce their debt is like feeding a drug addict expecting them to quit drugs. That kind of metaphor. 

Read the thread more carefully you'll see the point was that it's better to give it to the average American than it to give it to a company who's just gonna use it to buy back stocks

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, daz28 said:

Read the thread more carefully you'll see the point was that it's better to give it to the average American than it to give it to a company who's just gonna use it to buy back stocks

Yeah I got that. And understand my point I’m making. All I’m doing is pointing out the folly of your point that people are going to do the right thing with the tax breaks. That is all. Oh and most average Americans did get a tax break. 

[B-Man]

 

 

HIGHER EDUCATION IS NOT NOTED FOR ITS FRUGALITY WITH OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY: 

 

Higher ed experts concerned colleges could blow through coronavirus aid.

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

We lost health care because SOMEONE decided it would be a bright idea to have the government handle health insurance mandates and acceptable pre-existing conditions.

 

I said it then (you can research it if you'd like), the ACA was a BAD idea. They should have either gone to a medicare-for-all or left the market alone.

 

Half-assing it wasn't the answer, it never is.

 

As far as pensions go, I'll give you an anecdotal story. My father worked as a materials engineer for Bethlehem Steel for 40 years. A pension was part of his package of benefits. Know what that package is worth today? Zero. Why? Because the company which promised it doesn't exist any more. Fortunately for him, he was bright enough to understand that it wasn't something that was sustainable, and made preparations for his own retirement.

 

No, Obamacare was a great idea. 30 million American can now go see a doctor who wouldn't have been able to before. Who cries over that fact? 

29 minutes ago, daz28 said:

Read the thread more carefully you'll see the point was that it's better to give it to the average American than it to give it to a company who's just gonna use it to buy back stocks

If you make unemployment too generous though, the workers won't risk their lives to go out and get the economy running again until its safe to do so 

[daz28]

3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

No, Obamacare was a great idea. 30 million American can now go see a doctor who wouldn't have been able to before. Who cries over that fact? 

If you make unemployment too generous though, the workers won't risk their lives to go out and get the economy running again until its safe to do so 

But Obamacare did do some things that people didn't like, and had a big impact on the overall effect on how we can move forward trying to correct it.  

 

 

I know you're being sarcastic, but we've already established that the unemployment myth is false.  You can't refuse to go back to work, and still collect benefits.

32 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Yeah I got that. And understand my point I’m making. All I’m doing is pointing out the folly of your point that people are going to do the right thing with the tax breaks. That is all. Oh and most average Americans did get a tax break. 

Most people would have injected that money right back into the economy.  A lot of Americans love to spend, and not worry about the future.  Also, the tax break is temporary right now, while most of those stock buybacks were sold almost immediately to go straight to their bank accounts.  IMO, it's almost securities fraud.  

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, daz28 said:

But Obamacare did do some things that people didn't like, and had a big impact on the overall effect on how we can move forward trying to correct it.  

 

 

I know you're being sarcastic, but we've already established that the unemployment myth is false.  You can't refuse to go back to work, and still collect benefits.

Most people would have injected that money right back into the economy.  A lot of Americans love to spend, and not worry about the future.  Also, the tax break is temporary right now, while most of those stock buybacks were sold almost immediately to go straight to their bank accounts.  IMO, it's almost securities fraud.  

My point exactly. You mentioned the “unfortunate” ones who are I debt could use the tax breaks. They would have those tax breaks and still be in debt. Fools will be fools. 
 

And you and I didn’t benefit from those stock by backs?  So a buy back is “almost” securities fraud?  ????